Could a new system for request stops be introduced, such as buttons to request a stop?

[Dai Corner]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...f-only-if-no-one-has-a-ticket-to-them.236428/

As I suggested in another thread, how about bus-style Stop buttons and announcements saying "The next station is Tinytown. Please press the Stop button now if you wish to leave the train there" ?

 

[Efini92]

As I suggested in another thread, how about bus-style Stop buttons and announcements saying "The next station is Tinytown. Please press the Stop button now if you wish to leave the train there" ?

In theory a good idea but practically it would get pressed all the time by people wether accidental or deliberate.
I find most just ask the driver before boarding, it’s probably the most reliable way.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As I suggested in another thread, how about bus-style Stop buttons and announcements saying "The next station is Tinytown. Please press the Stop button now if you wish to leave the train there" ?

The Swiss do that (it is also connected to the door buttons, so if you press that on the move it requests a stop and opens that door when the train does stop). I would be unsurprised if ScotRail's forthcoming new rural fleet had such a feature, it is easy enough to do and avoids misunderstandings e.g. someone (who has paid) in the bog during a ticket check.

 

[PTR 444]

How would it work for passengers boarding a train though? I don’t suppose many would be thrilled at the idea of sticking an arm out in front of a Class 150 hurtling at 50mph.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How would it work for passengers boarding a train though? I don’t suppose many would be thrilled at the idea of sticking an arm out in front of a Class 150 hurtling at 50mph.

ScotRail are implementing stop buttons on platforms which will signal the train in advance. The Swiss have done this for years.

 

[XAM2175]

We had a thread about it:

ScotRail request stop buttons at stations

Just seen this on Network Rail Twitter page. https://twitter.com/networkrailscot/status/1475863361636081666?s=21 At remote stations on the Far North Line, passengers will soon request trains to stop using a radio system linked to the train driver’s cab. Does anyone have any more information...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Lucan]

How would it work for passengers boarding a train though? I don’t suppose many would be thrilled at the idea of sticking an arm out in front of a Class 150 hurtling at 50mph.

Isn't that what you need to do now? The trick is to withdraw your arm in time if the driver doesn't stop. Before anyone has a health and safety fit, I am reflecting the silliness of the OP's question. In practice I have simply waved to the approaching driver, and there is no need to be overhanging or even near the edge.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn't that what you need to do now? The trick is to withdraw your arm in time if the driver doesn't stop. Before anyone has a health and safety fit, I am reflecting the silliness of the OP's question. In practice I have simply waved to the approaching driver, and there is no need to be overhanging or even near the edge.

Exactly. There is no need to wave over the platform edge, just to give a clear signal so the driver sees it. They will be looking for it.

 

[PTR 444]

Isn't that what you need to do now? The trick is to withdraw your arm in time if the driver doesn't stop. Before anyone has a health and safety fit, I am reflecting the silliness of the OP's question. In practice I have simply waved to the approaching driver, and there is no need to be overhanging or even near the edge.

I’m not familiar with request stops as I have never used any myself. Upon reading the linked thread on the Far North Line request stops, an arm gesture does work but only as long as the train is travelling at a low speed. 50mph would be too late for the train to stop in time (as well as the safety risk), hence the need to install buttons on the platforms signalling the driver to stop.

 

[Esker-pades]

I’m not familiar with request stops as I have never used any myself. Upon reading the linked thread on the Far North Line request stops, an arm gesture does work but only as long as the train is travelling at a low speed. 50mph would be too late for the train to stop in time (as well as the safety risk), hence the need to install buttons on the platforms signalling the driver to stop.

How would it work for passengers boarding a train though? I don’t suppose many would be thrilled at the idea of sticking an arm out in front of a Class 150 hurtling at 50mph.

For request stops, trains slow to 15-20 mph so that they can stop on signal. We're not going to start hand signals at linespeed.

 

[markymark2000]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...f-only-if-no-one-has-a-ticket-to-them.236428/

As I suggested in another thread, how about bus-style Stop buttons and announcements saying "The next station is Tinytown. Please press the Stop button now if you wish to leave the train there" ?

Sheffield trams work like this. Their announcements are 'The next stop on request will be [station]' and this works quite well there. I think there is certainly potential on some lines and certainly at night. I'd put some money on stations like the Mid Cheshire Line. Some of the little stations have no one get on or off, especially at night. Make it on request, some small bits of recovery time in there at Knutsford and Northwich to keep the train at least a bit on time.

Stop bells would work though on the Heart of Wales, Cumbrian Coast and Cambrian Coast though where there is a lot of request stops. Save guards having to 'look for intent to alight' from passengers, this would hopefully free up a little bit of time for guards to be checking tickets and general customer service.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

ScotRail are implementing stop buttons on platforms which will signal the train in advance. The Swiss have done this for years.

The worry here would be if the button on the platform is defective- if the driver gets no stop signal would they not just pass at linespeed and therefore not be able to respond to a hand signal?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The worry here would be if the button on the platform is defective- if the driver gets no stop signal would they not just pass at linespeed and therefore not be able to respond to a hand signal?

I mentioned that on the other thread and supposedly it is failsafe, i.e. something like a light shows if they don't have to stop, though I suppose a fault on the button itself is possible.

 

[MotCO]

What happens now when it's dark - can the driver see a would-be passenger waving from a platform?

 

[py_megapixel]

What happens now when it's dark - can the driver see a would-be passenger waving from a platform?

The majority of them have lighting on the platform, and I assume a passenger trying to board would be expected to take the initiative to stand under a lamp post!
Of the unlit ones - bearing in mind that these are the going to be the smallest and least-used of them, how many of them actually have a service outside of daylight hours?

 

[Bletchleyite]

A passenger would probably wave their mobile phone screen or torch. That's what people do at unlit bus stops.

Are there any unlit stations with a passenger service during darkness? I thought some Looe line stations weren't served after dark for that reason. Yes, station lighting can fail but it hardly ever does.

 

[43096]

Anyone would think this is some sort of revolutionary idea that had never been done before. Thing is, the Rhätische Bahn in Switzerland have had this for years: press a button at the station or if you're on the train there's a "Halt auf verlangen" button that signals to the driver you want to get off.

How hard can it be?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I mentioned that on the other thread and supposedly it is failsafe, i.e. something like a light shows if they don't have to stop, though I suppose a fault on the button itself is possible.

That's basically my concern, you're introducing a single point of failure that isn't easy to overcome. What could work is a failure mode that causes the signal to default to the stop position if the button is damaged, but that would require constant monitoring (not necessarily by a human, it could be computer controlled) to establish whether there's a fault or not. That introduces extra costs to fitting the system, and would be difficult to do somewhere as isolated as Altnabreac or Scotscalder.

How do the Swiss deal with this issue? I suppose destructive vandalism isn't as much of a problem there, and I doubt they have any stations as isolated as Altnabreac.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Anyone would think this is some sort of revolutionary idea that had never been done before. Thing is, the Rhätische Bahn in Switzerland have had this for years: press a button at the station or if you're on the train there's a "Halt auf verlangen" button that signals to the driver you want to get off.

How hard can it be?

For on board it definitely isn't hard - how long have buses had stop buttons? 50+ years?

 

[Esker-pades]

What happens now when it's dark - can the driver see a would-be passenger waving from a platform?

A passenger would probably wave their mobile phone screen or torch. That's what people do at unlit bus stops.

Are there any unlit stations with a passenger service during darkness? I thought some Looe line stations weren't served after dark for that reason. Yes, station lighting can fail but it hardly ever does.

Lighting on the platform. If that doesn't work (as I've had), the train has headlights. I wouldn't wave a torch; risk of blinding.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Lighting on the platform. If that doesn't work (as I've had), the train has headlights. I wouldn't wave a torch; risk of blinding.

I'm not suggesting a 6D Maglite. A phone torch is very commonly used.

 

[Esker-pades]

I'm not suggesting a 6D Maglite. A phone torch is very commonly used.

I will continue to not shine torches, phone or not, a trains

 

[skyhigh]

I will continue to not shine torches, phone or not, a trains

Given how bright LED signals are, you're not going to blind a driver with a phone torch.

 

[NSE]

Yeah, I feel a phone torch would be fine. I’d probably wave it gently or make some other form of motion or something to make it clear I’m a person. My Apple Watch can flash (not blinding) to show I’m not a signal. That said, the drivers would be expecting/looking out for it. Drivers know their line well. I’m sure virtually all would err on the side of caution if they weren’t sure.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

A passenger would probably wave their mobile phone screen or torch. That's what people do at unlit bus stops.

Are there any unlit stations with a passenger service during darkness? I thought some Looe line stations weren't served after dark for that reason. Yes, station lighting can fail but it hardly ever does.

Falls of Cruachan is one that is skipped after dark.

As others have said, I'd be a bit wary of shining my phone torch directly at a driver given how bright it is. Especially given how we're (rightly) told not to use a flash when taking photos. If I found myself in that situation, I'd probably use the torch to illuminate myself rather than pointing it at the front of the train.

 

[Railsigns]

Falls of Cruachan is one that is skipped after dark.

Trains do stop there when it's dark, especially around this time of year before the station closes for the winter.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Trains do stop there when it's dark, especially around this time of year before the station closes for the winter.

Thanks for the correction. Is this a recent (last 5 years) change, or was it always different depending on the season?

 

[Railsigns]

Is this a recent (last 5 years) change, or was it always different depending on the season?

It's been happening for decades.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It's been happening for decades.

Thanks. Thought it was down to daylight hours rather than being seasonal, so every day is a school day. Not sure how I missed that it closes fully in winter, regardless of whether it's daytime or not.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Now you can get on to the platform a few seconds before the train arrives, the driver sees you and stops. If part of the reason for a button is to avoid slowing down, would you have to be there five or ten minutes early?

Would the timetable still have to allow for trains stopping at nearly all request halts? Perhaps the journey could be a bit shorter in winter when many request stops are not requested.