Could new report from Transport Focus Help 1st time offences *which were unintentional*

[AlterEgo]

If there is evidence of intent, been on the train 30 minutes and not approached train crew

It isn’t up to passengers to approach the crew if they’ve boarded at a station with no facilities.

 

[Kite159]

I saw this happen today about an hour ago. Fella gets on at Redcar Central (ticket office + TVM available) and sits next to me. Conductor comes through and the fella asks for a single to Middlesbrough which he pays for using his debit card. Yet the day before, if the guy had done this, he would have gotten a Penalty Fare because the day before the same train had RPIs onboard. That's an extremely high level of inconsistency. One day this person pays £5.10, the next day it's £105.10 (or £55.10).

Now, I reckon that this fella was trying it on (there were several furtive glances over the shoulder in the direction the conductor was coming from which make me think they were hoping he wouldn't reach them in time) so I'd have no qualm with them getting a PF. But equally there's plenty of people for whom it's not an attempt to fare evade, it's just what they've always done. Pay the conductor on board. Indeed I've seen RPIs have that very argument with people ("I bought on board last week, why are now giving me a penalty fare, how is this fair?!"). Some of them may well be trying it on, but I doubt it's all of them.

Try explaining to an average member of the public that one member of Northern staff wearing Northern uniform will sell them a ticket on board, but another member of Northern staff also wearing the same Northern uniform will not sell them a ticket but will instead issue them a PF....

At the very least I reckon that conductors need to be always be giving people a verbal warning when they issue tickets that, if an RPI were checking tickets, would lead to a PF being issued. Some do (I've heard them do it), but by no means all.

Or go back to using ticket stock which has a warning notice printed on the rear (which for some will just be ignored) for sales by onboard staff.

 

[ainsworth74]

Or go back to using ticket stock which has a warning notice printed on the rear (which for some will just be ignored) for sales by onboard staff.

Yes that's very true, I mean not everyone will see it or read it but it's better than nothing. I do recall at least once a conductor issuing a ticket then flipping it over and using the information printed on the back to help with their warning to the passenger that they could have gotten a PF if they'd been an RPI rather than a conductor.

 

[The exile]

One of the interesting points in the consultation about the increase from £20 and subsequent announcement was the firm view by the government that £20 was “no longer an effective deterrent”. Surely if the official view is that PFs are only used where there has been an honest mistake then the whole concept of being a deterrent doesn’t apply, as how can you deter people from making a genuine mistake?

Well it can encourage people to be more careful… The cost of replacing the monthly ticket I put in the washing machine before I’d ever used it (and before anyone asks - the Freedom travelpass is not a season ticket) wasn’t a fine, but it certainly encouraged me to check pockets more carefully.

 

[Haywain]

At the very least I reckon that conductors need to be always be giving people a verbal warning when they issue tickets that, if an RPI were checking tickets, would lead to a PF being issued. Some do (I've heard them do it), but by no means all.

Can I refer you to post #63?

 

[Pushpit]

It isn’t up to passengers to approach the crew if they’ve boarded at a station with no facilities.

And the passenger may think it's a driver-only operated service, another inconsistent area. But if you make it legitimate to buy a ticket just upon boarding, via digital channels, then if someone has no attempt to pay after a decent interval, I would suggest we are heading for a yellow card.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Not due really to disability, she simply grew up in a world without such technology. She is intimidated by the screen, intimidated by the options, worries about pressing the wrong option, not used to using a keypad, and yes a bit of a Luddite in her too.

If she's 85 now she was still of working age back in 1990-2000 when TVMs and ATMs really became a thing. I think a lot of this is simple belligerence rather than an inability to use the machines. "I don't want to use a TVM so I don't see why I should have to".

Yes, but when you do start to apply discretion, you then end up with a situation where people are shown it or not based on what grounds? Attitude test? Mates with the guards relative? Looking like a thug and I don't want to tangle with you?

If the expectation is that every time you get caught breaking a rule you'll get the reasonable level of punishment that is designed to go with it, then surely there's less cause for people to complain?

That's always the dilemma with any sort of enforcement.

Penalty Fares will be issued to people who have made a genuine mistake and it will feel terribly unfair to them that they've been penalised for a genuine mistake. But many genuine mistakes are indistinguishable from "genuine mistakes". Any sort of discretion just comes down to the "attitude test"; if you're an old lady who pretends to be doddery you'll get away with it, if you're a young person you won't.

Look at Northern's stats for the issuing of Penalty Fares: the vast majority go to people under 50. I don't for one second think people over 50 are any more honest.

I'd agree that it should be a blanket enforcement. If you make a mistake it will feel unfair but sometimes mistakes have consequences that we don't like. I got a parking ticket recently because I was late back to my car. I didn't intend to be late back to my car, I wasn't chancing my arm, I just got distracted. The consequence of my mistake was my wallet becoming £60 lighter. It's not fair but it was my mistake and my consequence.

 

[BazingaTribe]

I'd agree that it should be a blanket enforcement. If you make a mistake it will feel unfair but sometimes mistakes have consequences that we don't like. I got a parking ticket recently because I was late back to my car. I didn't intend to be late back to my car, I wasn't chancing my arm, I just got distracted. The consequence of my mistake was my wallet becoming £60 lighter. It's not fair but it was my mistake and my consequence.

My go-to is being sick in a taxi. Not my fault per se (it was migraine and I lost the gamble at getting home before the inevitable happened), not the driver's fault, but he's the one left with the lack of income for the afternoon while he cleans my sick out of the back. So it's my responsibility to pay the £50 'fine' for the damage.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

They'd need access to a dozen different apps and so on at the moment, and access to whichever station processed my paper applications back in the day.

Why is it that ticketing sites don't offer an enhanced faciliity where you are invited to state whether you are buying tickets for yourself and if so give an option to input and save railcard details including the expiry date? Then if attempting to purchase a ticket beyond the validity of the railcard, there could be a warning message. That would at least mitigate against the problem of those buying discounted tickets without being sufficiently aware that their card had expired.

 

[Pushpit]

If she's 85 now she was still of working age back in 1990-2000 when TVMs and ATMs really became a thing. I think a lot of this is simple belligerence rather than an inability to use the machines. "I don't want to use a TVM so I don't see why I should have to".

She is somewhat older than that, and there were no TVMs locally in that era. Until relatively recently LNER then BR then MTL then Arriva then Northern had staff at stations and friendly guards on trains. But also the belligerence you reference is also at least partly true, as well as her being genuinely being scared of the TVMs. I don't have all the answers here but it absolutely doesn't make my mother a fare dodger. She has posted cheques off to Northern after travel, when it was "impossible" to pay, when the fare due was under £2. She is a customer and should be treated accordingly.

The Northern TVMs have a touch screen something like a metre tall, half a metre wide, and I can see a lot of thought has gone into the design to make them easy to use. But it can take a while to get the correct options and it's a blizzard of colour and buttons to press. It's quite some way from an ATM.

 

[Kite159]

Yes that's very true, I mean not everyone will see it or read it but it's better than nothing. I do recall at least once a conductor issuing a ticket then flipping it over and using the information printed on the back to help with their warning to the passenger that they could have gotten a PF if they'd been an RPI rather than a conductor.

Same for when the guard 'catches' someone who seemingly only purchased a ticket when they saw them coming checking (based on the purchase time). I tend to give a warning about ensuring they buy before they board because if revenue was on board it will flag up that it was only purchased within the last 2 minutes etc.

But with those cases where do you draw the line, especially if the train is delayed the system will still flag up 'purchase after departure' even if they purchased before the boarded but it was after the scheduled departure time of the train.

 

[Hadders]

My elderly mother lives by a Northern Line station with the new(ish) big TVMs and she really struggles with them. Not due really to disability, she simply grew up in a world without such technology. She is intimidated by the screen, intimidated by the options, worries about pressing the wrong option, not used to using a keypad, and yes a bit of a Luddite in her too. She simply does not understand why for 80 years of her life there was staff at the station to help her, and now there is not. She's basically given up using the train on her own, not just due to the TVMs it should be said, but if you ask her why, she will say she hated the TVMs. I don't have an answer to this one - believe me I've tried to find one.

Whereas I have another elderly relative with multiple severe congenital mental health issues, generally non verbal, and yet he can wizz around the same TVM faster than me.

Now you can't build a GB wide ticket buying strategy around 2 elderly people who don't pump much money into the rail system. But I do feel (a) customers should be treated as customers, if there is a clear intent to pay - even after boarding; (b) then there are people who don't intend to pay and it really isn't difficult to work out who they are - short fares, donuts, manipulating railcards, borrowing Freedom Passes, Jobcentre, railcards six months expired. If there is evidence of intent, been on the train 30 minutes and not approached train crew - they get dealt with severely. If there is no or limited evidence of intent then a warning follows and in doubt, that's the default. At the worst extreme, someone gets away with stealing from the railways, but only once.

She is somewhat older than that, and there were no TVMs locally in that era. Until relatively recently LNER then BR then MTL then Arriva then Northern had staff at stations and friendly guards on trains. But also the belligerence you reference is also at least partly true, as well as her being genuinely being scared of the TVMs. I don't have all the answers here but it absolutely doesn't make my mother a fare dodger. She has posted cheques off to Northern after travel, when it was "impossible" to pay, when the fare due was under £2. She is a customer and should be treated accordingly.

The Northern TVMs have a touch screen something like a metre tall, half a metre wide, and I can see a lot of thought has gone into the design to make them easy to use. But it can take a while to get the correct options and it's a blizzard of colour and buttons to press. It's quite some way from an ATM.

The problem is how you have some consistency across the country. In my neck of the woods it’s accepted you need a ticket before you travel eg 8 or 12-car DOO trains. Of course that doesn’t mean everyone has a ticket and therefore there has to be a deterrent factor and a harder line taken when people are caught. Many would say even then too a stance is taken.

We’re probably at the point now where every station can have a ticket machine, given cost and available technology. Doing this helps to underpin the requirement to possess a ticket before boarding.

Change does happen, but I really can’t think of a better way of introducing consistency without adding unaffordable additional cost.

And the passenger may think it's a driver-only operated service, another inconsistent area. But if you make it legitimate to buy a ticket just upon boarding, via digital channels, then if someone has no attempt to pay after a decent interval, I would suggest we are heading for a yellow card.

Define a reasonable length? 2 minutes, 5 minutes, 10 minutes?

On reflection I think the only consistent way is to say you must possess a ticket before the train departs. As I said earlier there do need to be safeguards for certain groups of people, and that needs working through in an appropriate way, but the status-quo is unsatisfactory. A Quick Look at the Disputes & Prosecutions section of the forum shows that.

 

[Pushpit]

On reflection I think the only consistent way is to say you must possess a ticket before the train departs. As I said earlier there do need to be safeguards for certain groups of people, and that needs working through in an appropriate way, but the status-quo is unsatisfactory. A Quick Look at the Disputes & Prosecutions section of the forum shows that.

Indeed the Disputes threads bring inconsistency to a new meaning, though it doesn't take long to divide posters between unintended and intentional misuse.

And inconsistently there are e-tickets, a few m-tickets left, tickets on collection, smartcard products, prohibition of using e-tickets on certain routes, postal delivery and other methods. Linking valid railcards to discounts is possible in France and Spain but seemingly not GB. "Anytime" not the same as "any time". Illegal use of SJPN by some, but not all, TOCs. Hundreds of fares filed on a simple route which may or may not be on sale, some restricted to services that may or may not run, and no consistency on what to do if they are cancelled. TVMs that vary hugely as to what they can and can't issue, some can only issue very limited ticket options since they are offline. Some tickets that remain only on sale in person. RPIs who can't issues standard tickets and identically dressed staff who can. Wildly different approaches to gateline failures. So I'd give up on the passenger consistency business, if the TOCs and retailers can't be bothered with consistency on their side. This is a what-aboutery argument, I fully concede.

My solution is therefore more high-level.
- Treat customers as customers until their intent to not pay fares is beyond question, rather than assuming criminality
- Allow on board purchase within the first 5 minutes and disallow sanctions if the ticket is more than 10 minutes old at the point of checking
- Ensure some sort of ticket checking happens on 95% plus of trips (this would be the single greatest deterrent).
- Focus on "money collected now" rather than restrospective higher penalties over the post, accepting some will abuse this until the computer catches up with them.
- Link railcard ticket sales to a validity database.
- Give Yellow Cards to compliant first time cases and grey areas as far as intent is concerned, Penalty Fares on second timers, which can be levied after the event remotely.
- Use civil courts more, magistrates less, ensure a genuinely independent watchdog is checking a random sample of private prosecutions.
- Magistrates Court and press releases with photos for short farers, Freedom Pass thieves, fraudulent changes to railcards and serial offenders.
- Magistrates able to order a time-limited ban on the rail network for persistent offenders.

 

[sheff1]

...if the train is delayed the system will still flag up 'purchase after departure' even if they purchased before the boarded but it was after the scheduled departure time of the train.

implementing a system which provides incorrect information is not a sensible idea, but it doesn't surprise me at all.

We’re probably at the point now where every station can have a ticket machine, given cost and available technology.

Does that include Flowery Field ?

 

[father_jack]

Or go back to using ticket stock which has a warning notice printed on the rear (which for some will just be ignored) for sales by onboard staff.

Or just sell them a peak single, no railcard discounts ? You've not inconvenienced them timewise.

 

[KirkstallOne]

Indeed the Disputes threads bring inconsistency to a new meaning, though it doesn't take long to divide posters between unintended and intentional misuse.

And inconsistently there are e-tickets, a few m-tickets left, tickets on collection, smartcard products, prohibition of using e-tickets on certain routes, postal delivery and other methods. Linking valid railcards to discounts is possible in France and Spain but seemingly not GB. "Anytime" not the same as "any time". Illegal use of SJPN by some, but not all, TOCs. Hundreds of fares filed on a simple route which may or may not be on sale, some restricted to services that may or may not run, and no consistency on what to do if they are cancelled. TVMs that vary hugely as to what they can and can't issue, some can only issue very limited ticket options since they are offline. Some tickets that remain only on sale in person. RPIs who can't issues standard tickets and identically dressed staff who can. Wildly different approaches to gateline failures. So I'd give up on the passenger consistency business, if the TOCs and retailers can't be bothered with consistency on their side. This is a what-aboutery argument, I fully concede.

My solution is therefore more high-level.
- Treat customers as customers until their intent to not pay fares is beyond question, rather than assuming criminality
- Allow on board purchase within the first 5 minutes and disallow sanctions if the ticket is more than 10 minutes old at the point of checking
- Ensure some sort of ticket checking happens on 95% plus of trips (this would be the single greatest deterrent).
- Focus on "money collected now" rather than restrospective higher penalties over the post, accepting some will abuse this until the computer catches up with them.
- Link railcard ticket sales to a validity database.
- Give Yellow Cards to compliant first time cases and grey areas as far as intent is concerned, Penalty Fares on second timers, which can be levied after the event remotely.
- Use civil courts more, magistrates less, ensure a genuinely independent watchdog is checking a random sample of private prosecutions.
- Magistrates Court and press releases with photos for short farers, Freedom Pass thieves, fraudulent changes to railcards and serial offenders.
- Magistrates able to order a time-limited ban on the rail network for persistent offenders.

Excellent suggestions, there seems to be too much focus on ensuring noone can ever get away with underpaying or far evasion. Yes, it is difficult to distinguish an honest mistake from trying it on, so you give people the benefit of the doubt until you catch them red handed so to speak.

As always, most criminals are not the brightest and will properly land themselves in it soon enough.

 

[Kite159]

Or just sell them a peak single, no railcard discounts ? You've not inconvenienced them timewise.

Unless it was at peak time and that is the ticket they should have purchased before they boarded when travelling between two unbarriered stations.

Agreed @KirkstallOne some chancers are not the brightest, boarding the same door as the guard is at and standing in the vestibule area near to the guard. Then act surprised, said guard asks to see their tickets, if they were a bit brighter they would move to the opposite end of the train in the hope the guard doesn't reach them before their stop on a ~ 10-minute journey.

 

[BazingaTribe]

Agreed @KirkstallOne some chancers are not the brightest, boarding the same door as the guard is at and standing in the vestibule area near to the guard. Then act surprised, said guard asks to see their tickets, if they were a bit brighter they would move to the opposite end of the train in the hope the guard doesn't reach them before their stop on a ~ 10-minute journey.

Honestly some of the guards on the line between Reading and Basingstoke are just amazed at how some kids actually manage get on at a major, well-barriered railway junction without tickets. Some of the dodgers I've seen interrogated by guards could earn good money putting on escapology shows...

 

[Kite159]

Honestly some of the guards on the line between Reading and Basingstoke are just amazed at how some kids actually manage get on at a major, well-barriered railway junction without tickets. Some of the dodgers I've seen interrogated by guards could earn good money putting on escapology shows...

Most likely they didn't start their journey that day from Reading (or Basingstoke) starting at one of the many other stations close to Reading (or Basingstoke) which don't have barriers.

 

[Hadders]

Indeed the Disputes threads bring inconsistency to a new meaning, though it doesn't take long to divide posters between unintended and intentional misuse.

Although most people in the Disputes & Prosecutions seeking our advice claim what they did was a mistake or unintentional.

And inconsistently there are e-tickets, a few m-tickets left, tickets on collection, smartcard products, prohibition of using e-tickets on certain routes, postal delivery and other methods. Linking valid railcards to discounts is possible in France and Spain but seemingly not GB. "Anytime" not the same as "any time". Illegal use of SJPN by some, but not all, TOCs. Hundreds of fares filed on a simple route which may or may not be on sale, some restricted to services that may or may not run, and no consistency on what to do if they are cancelled. TVMs that vary hugely as to what they can and can't issue, some can only issue very limited ticket options since they are offline. Some tickets that remain only on sale in person. RPIs who can't issues standard tickets and identically dressed staff who can. Wildly different approaches to gateline failures.

I agree that some of the behaviour by the rail industry is appalling.

- Treat customers as customers until their intent to not pay fares is beyond question, rather than assuming criminality

Agreed.

- Allow on board purchase within the first 5 minutes and disallow sanctions if the ticket is more than 10 minutes old at the point of checking

I disagree with this. It introduces inconsistency. Am I allowed to buy on board if there are ticket barriers at the station where I start my journey? What if there are ticket barriers but they are open - can I buy on board then?

- Ensure some sort of ticket checking happens on 95% plus of trips (this would be the single greatest deterrent).

Attractive but I'm afraid on certain parts of the network it's unfeasible. For example, how are you going to check 95% of tickets on a 12-car Thameslink train that's driver only operated?

- Focus on "money collected now" rather than restrospective higher penalties over the post, accepting some will abuse this until the computer catches up with them.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying you don't want penalties issued by post? If so, I kind of agree but, I do think there are some instances where a journey history could be checked. But I do think there need to be safeguards in place to prevent phishing expeditions by train companies.

- Link railcard ticket sales to a validity database.

I disagree. I regularly buy railcard discounted tickets for family, friends and colleagues. This would not be possible if a database check had to be made.

- Give Yellow Cards to compliant first time cases and grey areas as far as intent is concerned, Penalty Fares on second timers, which can be levied after the event remotely.

Agreed. Although realistically a warning letter would need to be issued retrospectively after investigation in the back office. I suspect trying to validate whether someone had been given a warning before while onboard a train could present a number of challenges.

- Use civil courts more, magistrates less, ensure a genuinely independent watchdog is checking a random sample of private prosecutions.

I think there could be some unintended consequences of using civil courts. At present a Byelaw conviction effectively doesn't get recorded or appear anywhere and if it does occasionally appear in a DBS check for most purposes it is spent after a year.

Compare to a County Court judgement that isn't settled - that has all sorts of consequences from obtaining credit - even a mobile phone contract can be an issue. Is that what we really want for a railway ticketing issue?

- Magistrates Court and press releases with photos for short farers, Freedom Pass thieves, fraudulent changes to railcards and serial offenders.

I think there should be more education about the consequences of railway fare evasion.

- Magistrates able to order a time-limited ban on the rail network for persistent offenders.

Perhaps although such bans would be very difficult to enforce in reality.

 

[Pushpit]

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying you don't want penalties issued by post? If so, I kind of agree but, I do think there are some instances where a journey history could be checked. But I do think there need to be safeguards in place to prevent phishing expeditions by train companies.


I disagree. I regularly buy railcard discounted tickets for family, friends and colleagues. This would not be possible if a database check had to be made.

I want most of your comments to stand without me cheese-paring down the discussion. But to clarify what I mean about "money now" - at the moment there's pretty much an incentive on railways to take details, so that the back office can levy £120 admin on £5 fares, rather than £55 Penalty Fares, or simply collecting in the £5 original fare. I'm suggesting that while the occasional "pay when challenged" traveller will get away with this at least once unless Yellow Carded, it does however make the railway whole. This is making rail travel customer friendly rather than starting from an assumption of criminality.

Railcard database: In other countries like RENFE in Spain, all you need to do is furnish your Tarjeta Dorada (OAP card) number on the purchase. This is validated in real time and then digitially fixed into the ticket. So you can buy for family, friends and colleagues, they just need to provide their travel name and railcard number to you for use during purchase. It works in countries with considerably less sophisticated IT than the GB rail industry. This then makes the ticket very much personalised, so rail companies can replace lost tickets so long as the railcard is produced.

 

[Haywain]

Attractive but I'm afraid on certain parts of the network it's unfeasible. For example, how are you going to check 95% of tickets on a 12-car Thameslink train that's driver only operated?

And at what point in the journey from Peterborough to Horsham or Bedford to Brighton do you conclude that 95% have been checked?

 

[Pushpit]

And at what point in the journey from Peterborough to Horsham or Bedford to Brighton do you conclude that 95% have been checked?

This is the point: you know that on your journey you will be almost certain to be checked, but you don't know where or how, or which other short fare station has an inward check too. And you may even be checked twice on the same same train, rather than an incremental check of new passengers. At the moment there is too much of a pattern to checks and people think they will get away with it.

 

[RedPostJunc]

My view is tickets should not be sold on board, this is what causes confusion. There should be a ticket vending machine at every station, if necessary card only and promise to pay for those who want to pay in cash.

What happens when the only ticket machine is not working? Not all stations have more than one ticket machine. One day a year or so ago, I went to Bedwyn station and the only ticket machine was "Out of Order". I tried to buy a ticket online, but my phone had trouble connecting. I took a photo of the machine and showed it to staff at Newbury, who sold me a ticket. But, what would have happened if an RPI Inspector had been on the train between Bedwyn and Newbury?

 

[Hadders]

I want most of your comments to stand without me cheese-paring down the discussion. But to clarify what I mean about "money now" - at the moment there's pretty much an incentive on railways to take details, so that the back office can levy £120 admin on £5 fares, rather than £55 Penalty Fares, or simply collecting in the £5 original fare. I'm suggesting that while the occasional "pay when challenged" traveller will get away with this at least once unless Yellow Carded, it does however make the railway whole. This is making rail travel customer friendly rather than starting from an assumption of criminality.

Railcard database: In other countries like RENFE in Spain, all you need to do is furnish your Tarjeta Dorada (OAP card) number on the purchase. This is validated in real time and then digitially fixed into the ticket. So you can buy for family, friends and colleagues, they just need to provide their travel name and railcard number to you for use during purchase. It works in countries with considerably less sophisticated IT than the GB rail industry. This then makes the ticket very much personalised, so rail companies can replace lost tickets so long as the railcard is produced.

Ok, I see what you're saying now. I do have concerns about some of the outcomes where cases are investigated in the back-office. I think there are arguments both ways:

- Take an adult caught using a child ticket. They've done it for months and get caught. Should they get a Penalty fare onboard for the single occasion where they're caught or should a back-office investigation take place?
- On the other hand, I do think that if a back office investigation takes place and finds no additional wrong doing then the person shouldn't be charged any more than the Penalty Fare would have been had it been issued onboard.

I do have concerns about some of the data trawls that take place these days. Probably out of scope for this thread though.

This is the point: you know that on your journey you will be almost certain to be checked, but you don't know where or how, or which other short fare station has an inward check too. And you may even be checked twice on the same same train, rather than an incremental check of new passengers. At the moment there is too much of a pattern to checks and people think they will get away with it.

I've no issues with onboard ticket checks but a 12-car Thameslink train can have 1,500+ passengers onboard. Realistically you're not going to get through the train to check tickets on every train.

What happens when the only ticket machine is not working? Not all stations have more than one ticket machine. One day a year or so ago, I went to Bedwyn station and the only ticket machine was "Out of Order". I tried to buy a ticket online, but my phone had trouble connecting. I took a photo of the machine and showed it to staff at Newbury, who sold me a ticket. But, what would have happened if an RPI Inspector had been on the train between Bedwyn and Newbury?

Then you would have to pay at the first available opportunity, as is currently the case. Equipment failures will happen from time to time. I'd expect staff checking tickets to be aware of them.

 

[BazingaTribe]

Most likely they didn't start their journey that day from Reading (or Basingstoke) starting at one of the many other stations close to Reading (or Basingstoke) which don't have barriers.

Yeah, this was in the days before Reading West at least was gated. They didn't actually get on there (they certainly boarded the train at Reading itself, as did I) but from the context of the discussion that I remember, they claimed to have come from Reading.itself, which was why I guess the guard continued to interrogate them..

Given that Reading is a major junction with long distance trains in a lot of different directions, having a lot of rural stations without ticket gates is a recipe for disaster. The focus should IMO be preventing people getting in to the station in the first place, and gates/machines have been rolled out on the most obvious urban loophole on that line, but gating Bramley (with a level crossing built in, so difficult to gate, I'd imagine) and Mortimer may be more trouble than it's worth. The shuttle is heavily policed, particularly at peak times (I do travel contra-flow nowadays when going away for work, and rarely get checked, but certainly checks are done in the evening when leaving Reading itself) but it's a circle that needs to be squared in a way that protects revenue but keeps things going for rural passengers.