Could the additional 331/1s be used on a future electrified Leeds to York service?

[Roast Veg]

As per the title, the additional four 331s for the east side (giving the east all 12 of them) mean that there is a bit of a surplus over there now. We have had no confirmation from the Transpennine Route Upgrade work that Neville Hill to Church Fenton will be wired (hence the Speculative Idea). I don't know how many units are required to run the services from Leeds to York via Church Fenton, but could it be the same as this new surplus? Are we seeing some forethought on behalf of the Northern management?

 

[Iskra]

Some may be for Huddersfield-Leeds services after the TP upgrade.

 

[Roast Veg]

Aren't those services operated by other TOCs?

 

[JonathanH]

Are they really going to keep units spare until either of these routes are ready for them?

 

[Iskra]

Aren't those services operated by other TOCs?

Currently, but historically it was a Northern service, which it was until quite recently.

 

[Bevan Price]

As per the title, the additional four 331s for the east side (giving the east all 12 of them) mean that there is a bit of a surplus over there now. We have had no confirmation from the Transpennine Route Upgrade work that Neville Hill to Church Fenton will be wired (hence the Speculative Idea). I don't know how many units are required to run the services from Leeds to York via Church Fenton, but could it be the same as this new surplus? Are we seeing some forethought on behalf of the Northern management?

If true, it would be a very bad move. (Pre-Covid), the three coach 331/0s were too small for quite a lot of the Liverpool - Preston - Blackpool services, and many of the intermediate platforms are too short for pairs of 331/0. Indeed, the "Lancashire" side really needed more 331/1s.

 

[Roast Veg]

Are they really going to keep units spare until either of these routes are ready for them?

They are certainly not able to run them as 8 car, and with a like-for-like replacement of the 321/9 and 322 units, that leaves four units spare. The 333s are almost all back in service after refurbishment, so little chance of them needing to be taken out for a while. There are no more electrified routes out of Leeds operated by Northern that could reasonably have their frequencies enhanced. They'll definitely be spare for some time!

 

[Roast Veg]

If true, it would be a very bad move. (Pre-Covid), the three coach 331/0s were too small for quite a lot of the Liverpool - Preston - Blackpool services, and many of the intermediate platforms are too short for pairs of 331/0. Indeed, the "Lancashire" side really needed more 331/1s.

It has been reported in the class 331 thread that only a handful of 331/1s remain west-side, and they are due to move over imminently. I don't believe this is a short term arrangement, and is probably reflective of the incoming 323s. I don't disagree that 3 car isn't the right length for every service in the west - the 319s and 769s likely won't serve all the places they'd be most useful and there will be some losers.

 

[1D53]

Two units are required for the Stopper.

I understand 6 cars can't run on the Leeds to Skipton route until Leeds Platform 0 is finished hence why the extra four cars re coming over to replace 321/322, once 6 cars can operate 4 cars will be replaced with 3.

 

[ainsworth74]

An informed source tells me that historically there were 14 333 diagrams for 16 units, and 7 321/322 diagrams for 8 units, there was also a peak time diagram that ran with diesel units. 12 331/1s replacing the 8 321/322 means an increase of 4 units, however with a fleet of 12 rather than 8 there needs to be an additional maintenance spare, then one replaces the diesel diagram, that leaves an increase of 2 331/1s. 1 333 has been away at Derby for quite some time (it seems unlikely that none of the others will need to be so treated). 333 diagrams are now 12 diagrams for 16 units so allowing for one away at Derby and another spare, with the 2 remaining additional 331s making up for this change. The overall situation, allowing for repair work going on and diagram changes is, currently, 1x spare 333.

 

[D365]

1 333 has been away at Derby for quite some time (it seems unlikely that none of the others will need to be so treated). 333 diagrams are now 12 diagrams for 16 units so allowing for one away at Derby and another spare, with the 2 remaining additional 331s making up for this change. The overall situation, allowing for repair work going on and diagram changes is, currently, 1x spare 333.

Do you know which company is working on the 333 please?