Could the green Staycation HST be used for more railtours?

[yorksrob]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/xc-hst-leeds-swanage-farewell-tour-26-09-23.251717/

I was chatting about this (having missed the boat on signing up to it) and it strikes me that this would be a nice itinerary for that Green HST that was on the S&C last year.

It also has a good internal layout for railtouring.

 

[fgwrich]

I was chatting about this (having missed the boat on signing up to it) and it strikes me that this would be a nice itinerary for that Green HST that was on the S&C last year.

It also has a good internal layout for railtouring.

If by Green HST you mean the Staycation set - that’s finished.

 

[yorksrob]

If by Green HST you mean the Staycation set - that’s finished.

What, They've scrapped it ?

 

[fgwrich]

What, They've scrapped it ?

Staycation: yes. 43058 is a parts donor at Crewe, 059 is now a member of the Pullman fleet and painted blue. At least 1 if not 2 of the TFs are also now part of the Pullman fleet and have been painted and refurbished accordingly.

 

[Forty29]

What, They've scrapped it ?

Not used in anger for a couple of years now? Probably disbanded.

 

[yorksrob]

Staycation: yes. 43058 is a parts donor at Crewe, 059 is now a member of the Pullman fleet and painted blue. At least 1 if not 2 of the TFs are also now part of the Pullman fleet and have been painted and refurbished accordingly.

I can't see myself paying those prices anytime soon.

 

[Forty29]

Staycation: yes. 43058 is a parts donor at Crewe, 059 is now a member of the Pullman fleet and painted blue. At least 1 if not 2 of the TFs are also now part of the Pullman fleet and have been painted and refurbished accordingly.

Sorry this info just passed me by!

 

[fgwrich]

058 gave up its engine to 055 after that had issues on the Pullman last year. The other vehicle to go from Green to Blue was the TGF 44081, while TRBF / TRKB 40804 is stored at Eastleigh.

 

[m79900]

I don’t like the LSL Blue Pullman. The way I see it, they’ve taken historic trains which they could’ve put into an authentic livery, and painted them in a fake version of a livery that a small handful of largely unsuccessful trains carried 60 years ago.

 

[DarloRich]

I don’t like the LSL Blue Pullman. The way I see it, they’ve taken historic trains which they could’ve put into an authentic livery, and painted them in a fake version of a livery that a small handful of largely unsuccessful trains carried 60 years ago.

You best avert your eyes when a class 69 rolls past!

 

[Alanko]

I don’t like the LSL Blue Pullman. The way I see it, they’ve taken historic trains which they could’ve put into an authentic livery, and painted them in a fake version of a livery that a small handful of largely unsuccessful trains carried 60 years ago.

You are of course free to paint your HST set into any heritage livery of your choosing.

 

[yorksrob]

It would be nice to have a HST regularly doing tours at the more affordable end of the market.

 

[3RDGEN]

It would be nice to have a HST regularly doing tours at the more affordable end of the market.

There's a comment in the August Modern Railways about the "125 Group aiming for HST railtour this autumn" with their stock, no mention on their website as yet but I guess that will be cheaper than the Midland Pullman options. Wait and see if that happens.

 

[12LDA28C]

I don’t like the LSL Blue Pullman. The way I see it, they’ve taken historic trains which they could’ve put into an authentic livery, and painted them in a fake version of a livery that a small handful of largely unsuccessful trains carried 60 years ago.

Except of course the whole point of the LSL 'Midland Pullman' is to recreate the style, elegance and level of service that passengers could expect on the original train. It's the whole package, much more than just the livery of the HST.

It would be nice to have a HST regularly doing tours at the more affordable end of the market.

Pretty sure I remember BR using HSTs for railtours/excursions in the late 1980s on a weekend when there were a few spare sets lying around unused. Think I did a day trip from St Pancras to Dundee and back circa 1989.

 

[yorksrob]

There's a comment in the August Modern Railways about the "125 Group aiming for HST railtour this autumn" with their stock, no mention on their website as yet but I guess that will be cheaper than the Midland Pullman options. Wait and see if that happens.

That would be good. Quite sensible of them to get their ducks in a row before announcing.

Except of course the whole point of the LSL 'Midland Pullman' is to recreate the style, elegance and level of service that passengers could expect on the original train. It's the whole package, much more than just the livery of the HST.



Pretty sure I remember BR using HSTs for railtours/excursions in the late 1980s on a weekend when there were a few spare sets lying around unused. Think I did a day trip from St Pancras to Dundee and back circa 1989.

I can imagine that would have been a good money spinner.

 

[Krokodil]

I don’t like the LSL Blue Pullman. The way I see it, they’ve taken historic trains which they could’ve put into an authentic livery, and painted them in a fake version of a livery that a small handful of largely unsuccessful trains carried 60 years ago.

Well given that the set seems to be more active than the Intercity rake, the choice of branding would appear to have been a good commercial decision.

 

[Bessie]

Well given that the set seems to be more active than the Intercity rake, the choice of branding would appear to have been a good commercial decision.

Yes indeed - if you look at the Midland Pullman website most upcoming trips are fully booked or have limited places.

 

[james_the_xv]

Well given that the set seems to be more active than the Intercity rake, the choice of branding would appear to have been a good commercial decision.

I mean how often when booking a rail tour are you bothered about the livery of the stock? Stock type perhaps, but never seen anyone refuse to book a rail tour over the livery, even if it is slightly unauthentic.

 

[Krokodil]

I mean how often when booking a rail tour are you bothered about the livery of the stock? Stock type perhaps, but never seen anyone refuse to book a rail tour over the livery, even if it is slightly unauthentic.

It's photographers who care about livery authenticity (and yes, I've had some great photos of the IC set).

Branding on the other hand is very important for the high-end market (not the railtours with cranks wibbling about the traction). "Pullman" is still a premium label, and the Nanking blue livery stands out.

 

[Iskra]

I mean how often when booking a rail tour are you bothered about the livery of the stock? Stock type perhaps, but never seen anyone refuse to book a rail tour over the livery, even if it is slightly unauthentic.

The livery is a distinctive and important piece of the marketing/branding which helps promote the service and justify the fares (which I actually think are fairly reasonable considering some of the journey lengths). LSL are particularly good at branding of coaching stock and tailoring it towards a target market. I've no doubt there would be an element of grumbling if the Midland Pullman ran with a mishmash of de-branded, scruffy former TOC rolling stock and I doubt it would sell anywhere near as well.

One of the advantages of using a HST is that they can cover more ground in a day and are lighter than traditional locomotives, as well as being able to run in a limited fashion on one power car if anything goes wrong.

 

[Krokodil]

Looking at the websites, the only tour currently advertised by Intercity is a Scotrail push-pull tour in the autumn. The Midland Pullman on the other hand has 17 excursions listed for the rest of this year, many of which are fully-booked.

 

[Iskra]

Looking at the websites, the only tour currently advertised by Intercity is a Scotrail push-pull tour in the autumn. The Midland Pullman on the other hand has 17 excursions listed for the rest of this year, many of which are fully-booked.

While factually correct in terms of tour numbers, the reason Intercity don't run as often is as much to do with their inability to handle criticism as it is about any actual demand.

 

[Krokodil]

the reason Intercity don't run as often is as much to do with their inability to handle criticism as it is about any actual demand.

Rubbish. Hosking is a businessman and wants to see a return on his investment. If there was demand for the Intercity charters the set would be out a lot more often, it has little to do with cranks whining. It's a commercial decision.

Much of the work the IC set has ended up doing is outside of Intercity Railtours. It has been hired by Avanti for crowdbusting, used on Three Peaks trains, used as the London feeder for Irish railtours etc.

 

[Iskra]

Rubbish. Hosking is a businessman and wants to see a return on his investment. If there was demand for the Intercity charters the set would be out a lot more often, it has little to do with cranks whining. It's a commercial decision.

Much of the work the IC set has ended up doing is outside of Intercity Railtours. It has been hired by Avanti for crowdbusting, used on Three Peaks trains, used as the London feeder for Irish railtours etc.

Anyone looking for return on investment would not be restoring some of the obscure locomotive types that they do and would focus on a smaller number of more mainline viable or renown types. The decent tours they offered sold out, they were very much finding their feet in the market still, until some criticism online...

 

[Killingworth]

One of the advantages of using a HST is that they can cover more ground in a day and are lighter than traditional locomotives, as well as being able to run in a limited fashion on one power car if anything goes wrong.

Indeed, but one power car hasn't enough in reserve to haul a laden full length train on all route. In July 2021 one of the blue power cars suffered a mishap the day before a tour to Cardiff. A green Staycation unit was substituted. On possibly the warmest day of the year it took umbrage at dawdling along up the gradients of the mid-Wales line, stopping and starting for wayside level crossing and halts, finally sitting down at Cynghordy across a track to a set of holiday cottages - for almost 3 hours. At least the air-con remained on in all but possibly one coach.

 

[12LDA28C]

I mean how often when booking a rail tour are you bothered about the livery of the stock? Stock type perhaps, but never seen anyone refuse to book a rail tour over the livery, even if it is slightly unauthentic.

Again, it's not about the livery of the stock. It's about recreating the vision of the original train complete with high standards of service from uniformed stewards. Wouldn't really work if the train was a different colour.

 

[bleeder4]

Again, it's not about the livery of the stock. It's about recreating the vision of the original train complete with high standards of service from uniformed stewards. Wouldn't really work if the train was a different colour.

I suspect the poster you are replying to hasn't ever been on the Midland Pullman. Having been on it myself a number of times, I fully understand and back up your comment.