Could the Heart of Wales timetable be improved?

[Meerkat]

This is the type of point I was going to raise, the power of the right promotion is incredibly strong. It seems unlikely that this route will ever make much from commuting or shopping trips, but the leisure market could have a lot of potential. I do wonder whether there isn't scope to improve the promotion of this route. A story associating some of the stations or other easily accessible locations along the route with famous people would almost guarantee hordes of visitors. Maybe someone from the cast of Gavin and Stacey could pay a visit, or perhaps one of them might even have a relative associated with somewhere along the route? The famous man of the moment is Luke Littler - not an obvious connection but who knows? And just imagine if someone with the fame of Taylor Swift had a connection? All clutching at straws of course, but I do wonder if any stone has been left unturned?

What is there to promote though. Some very small towns of limited wide appeal, nice but not spectacular scenery, and a long journey to nowhere special (in tourist terms). Central Wales isn’t the Highlands, and Swansea and Llanelli definitely aren’t Mallaig!

 

[Llanigraham]

This is the type of point I was going to raise, the power of the right promotion is incredibly strong. It seems unlikely that this route will ever make much from commuting or shopping trips, but the leisure market could have a lot of potential. I do wonder whether there isn't scope to improve the promotion of this route. A story associating some of the stations or other easily accessible locations along the route with famous people would almost guarantee hordes of visitors. Maybe someone from the cast of Gavin and Stacey could pay a visit, or perhaps one of them might even have a relative associated with somewhere along the route? The famous man of the moment is Luke Littler - not an obvious connection but who knows? And just imagine if someone with the fame of Taylor Swift had a connection? All clutching at straws of course, but I do wonder if any stone has been left unturned?

I'm sure the Community Rail Partnership for the Heart of Wales line (https://www.heart-of-wales.co.uk/) would be interested in your ideas, since they seem to be struggling at the moment.

 

[Shrop]

What is there to promote though. Some very small towns of limited wide appeal, nice but not spectacular scenery, and a long journey to nowhere special (in tourist terms). Central Wales isn’t the Highlands, and Swansea and Llanelli definitely aren’t Mallaig!

Yes, it's hard to disagree with you, although strange things do happen which lead to unbelievable popularity. I know this is a little different, but I'd never have believed those two elderly guys doing the Macarena would have sold 14 million copies, or that some guy doing a video riding a pretend horse and calling it "Gangnam Style" would have generated 2 billion views on Youtube! That said, my tongue is in my cheek ...

 

[fishwomp]

What is there to promote though. Some very small towns of limited wide appeal, nice but not spectacular scenery, and a long journey to nowhere special (in tourist terms). Central Wales isn’t the Highlands, and

Well.. Llangollen does very well - mad busy with tourists, and only a disconnected steam railway (this is probably wrong forum to ask if anything more appealing there than that ).

I always thought that towns like Llandod had similar potential - and if someone could put on a steam service (a la Grosmont-Whitby) during the quiet hours.. people would _drive_ to see it..

Swansea and Llanelli definitely aren’t Mallaig!

And are more quickly reached from almost everywhere by other rail routes.. but they are good destinations for which to reach Gower and west Wales if on a week of roving holiday.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

"Swansea and Llanelli definately arent't Mallaig"

A bit of a difference between 2 large urban areas and a fishing / port settlement methinks - admittedly an element of changed industry , but still a lot there.

Ever been to Swansea and the Mumbles ? - the sweep of the bay attracted much positive comments comments from the likes of Walter Savage Landor and others who compared it to the Bay of Naples , and is still impressive. Of course , the old Swansea LNWR entrance to Swansea Victoria ran alongside the aforementioned Bay , even having a station there , amazingly called Swansea Bay.

 

[70014IronDuke]

For comparison, First Cymru buses operate half hourly from Swansea to Pontardullais, hourly to Ammanford and at least every two hours to Llandeilo, though journey times are longer.

Thank you for this info.
But it begs the question: should the rail alternative accept this as a 'we can't possibly beat this' or rather: 'if it can support that service intensity, surely we should be looking into a possible rail attack on this market'?
Having said that, of course, maybe Swansea HS station is not where the majority of pax want to go, but I don't think the bus services you highlight should make TfW/rail managers give up.

As growing the Central Wales passenger traffic hasn't been achieved by any of the fine array of highly skilled railway folk and privateers who have stewarded it from John Davies in BR days onwards, you have to suspect it just isn't possible.

JD even experimented with at least one summer of the SO Manchester to Tenby running via the Central Wales line circa 1989, albeit with a pair of 150s.

Dozens of lines since the days of BR have seen their services transformed and found it attracts passengers. And note the bus services provided by @Dai Corner

Further, the problems with the 5 trains EW per day service, was that there were frequent cancellations caused by crew issues, traction failures, flooding etc and/or delays of 20 - 40 minutes to the trains that did run waiting paths, mostly at Llandeilo but also twixt Llandod and Knighton.

I am all for encouraging tourist journeys, but if the HoWL has any real future, it should start with a service improvement at the southern end. It's one thing for someone taking the train from Llanwrtrd six times a year to Swansea to suffer a single 40 minute delay waiting at Llandeilo for a path, but potential regular commuters expecting a circa 1 hour journey into Swansea to be delayed or canclled five-six-seven times a month will just get the bus or car.

I also don't get all the criticisms of the 153s here. They are short trains, but hardly hell on earth.

Whatever, the current service has to be a real damper on any possibility of not only growth, but even maintaining previous passenger numbers. The monster gap in the afternoon departures from both Swansea and Shrewsbury, coupled with the risk of even then the one last service being cancelled, must make rail a choice of last resort.

 

[fishwomp]

I'm all for encouraging tourist journeys, but if the HoWL has any real future, it should start with a service improvement at the southern end.

That would be a good first step - solid fast / reliable to at each end vs prioritizing through journeys, could still improve the through journeys as a result for the daytime. The jobs and connecting services are at each end of the line, not in the middle..

I also don't get all the criticisms of the 153s here. They are short trains, but hardly hell on earth.

It's the lack of power - their power to weight ratio is terrible - the worst in the TfW fleet now or for last few years:

	Weight T	Power KW	KW/T
142	49.5	336	6.79
143	48.5	336	6.93
150/2	74	426	5.76
153	41.2	213	5.17
158	77	520 (some are 600kW)	6.75
197	100 (guess - not found on internet)	750	7.50

153s are fine on the inside - but they could do with a better power unit.

 

[Meerkat]

Well.. Llangollen does very well - mad busy with tourists, and only a disconnected steam railway (this is probably wrong forum to ask if anything more appealing there than that ).

I always thought that towns like Llandod had similar potential - and if someone could put on a steam service (a la Grosmont-Whitby) during the quiet hours.. people would _drive_ to see it..

Llangollen is on the way to North Wales/Snowdonia, an easy drive from Birmingham, has better attractions, and there are other attractions in easy drive.
And of course almost everyone drives there, which reminds me that central Wales is driving holiday territory.

 

[Jez]

Whilst at Swansea Station today I saw the evening HOWL service leave. Looked to be around 12 people if that in each carriage. Seems very lightly loaded considering its early evening close to work finish time and also the last train.

 

[eldomtom2]

That would be a good first step - solid fast / reliable to at each end vs prioritizing through journeys, could still improve the through journeys as a result for the daytime. The jobs and connecting services are at each end of the line, not in the middle..

Splitting at Llandrindod so services are Shrewsbury - Llandrindod and Llandrindod - Swansea seems to make the most sense to me - it's roughly halfway along the line in terms of journey time and is the largest settlement on the line.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Whilst at Swansea Station today I saw the evening HOWL service leave. Looked to be around 12 people if that in each carriage. Seems very lightly loaded considering its early evening close to work finish time and also the last train.

Sad, but I think not so surprising, given the new timetable and I think that service has already been caped at least once already with in onset of the new TT. I wonder how many of them began the journey at Swansea? I can imagine if one has come from London or Reading, alights and finds the HoWL train there and ready to go, then fine. But if working in Swansea, finishing at 17.00 and anywhere near the bus station, I suspect most would choose the bus if possible against walking to High Street and risk finding the one possible train cancelled for any reason.

 

[Western 52]

Sad, but I think not so surprising, given the new timetable and I think that service has already been caped at least once already with in onset of the new TT. I wonder how many of them began the journey at Swansea? I can imagine if one has come from London or Reading, alights and finds the HoWL train there and ready to go, then fine. But if working in Swansea, finishing at 17.00 and anywhere near the bus station, I suspect most would choose the bus if possible against walking to High Street and risk finding the one possible train cancelled for any reason.

Indeed. At least the buses to Ammanford pass the station so there may be a suitable nearby alternative to the train.

 

[Jez]

Sad, but I think not so surprising, given the new timetable and I think that service has already been caped at least once already with in onset of the new TT. I wonder how many of them began the journey at Swansea? I can imagine if one has come from London or Reading, alights and finds the HoWL train there and ready to go, then fine. But if working in Swansea, finishing at 17.00 and anywhere near the bus station, I suspect most would choose the bus if possible against walking to High Street and risk finding the one possible train cancelled for any reason.

Yes I imagine anyone working in Swansea commuting from the likes of Pontardulais and Ammanford would opt for the bus

 

[daodao]

From the start of the new rail timetable (15/12/24), there is now a new X48 bus service run by Celtic Travel from Llandrindod Wells to Craven Arms, paralleling the Central Wales line, with some extensions to/from Builth Wells and 1 journey starting at Llanwrtyd Wells. It appears to be operated under the aegis of Transport for Wales and Bws Powys and is presumably subsidised. There are 4 journeys each way Mon-Sat, which fill in gaps in the current rail service, but is this the beginning of the end for the rail service on this line? Each trip appears to provide good connections at Craven Arms with rail services to/from Shrewsbury and beyond on the North and West main line, providing time-keeping is good.

X48 Bus Service ***New Route***​

(Amwythig -) Craven Arms - Tref-y-Clawdd - Llandrindod - Llanfair-ym-Muallt - Llanwrtud​

(Shrewsbury -) Craven Arms - Knighton - Llandrindod Wells - Builth Wells - Llanwrtyd Wells​

X48 Bus Timetable Shrewsbury Craven Arms Knighton Llandrindod Wells Builth Wells Llanwrtyd Wells Celtic Travel

Celtic Travel offer the X48 Bus Service calling at Shrewsbury Craven Arms Knighton Llandrindod Wells Builth Llanwrtyd Wells

www.celtictravel.wales

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Looks like the LibDems' one Member of the Senedd might be holding out for HoWL improvements in return for supporting Labour's budget: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy12jx98j0o

Sources have also indicated that the Heart of Wales rail line, bus fares for under 21s, and burying power cables underground are also being discussed.
[…] The Lib Dem leader Jane Dodds, the party's only MS, has campaigned against cuts to services on the Heart of Wales line.

 

[Western 52]

Looks like the LibDems' one Member of the Senedd might be holding out for HoWL improvements in return for supporting Labour's budget: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy12jx98j0o

I think her constituency is part of the line's route?

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Yes, she's a regional list MS for Mid & West Wales which includes most of the line.

 

[Dai Corner]

What did I say about the line's continued existence depending on politics?

 

[splashoutradio]

It's been mentioned on the May timetable change thread, but just in case it's of use to anyone here, there appears to be an extra train in each direction over the Heart of Wales line on Sundays during the summer holidays, this year.

This means that, should the data be correct, and things not change before the timetable goes live, the line will be treated to three trains on Sundays between August 3rd and September 14th, instead of the long running two.

RailwayData | Table 172 - Shrewsbury - Swansea (Heart of Wales Line) (Summer 2025)

Timetables for the English, Scottish and Welsh national networks.

www.railwaydata.co.uk

 

[Jez]

It's been mentioned on the May timetable change thread, but just in case it's of use to anyone here, there appears to be an extra train in each direction over the Heart of Wales line on Sundays during the summer holidays, this year.

This means that, should the data be correct, and things not change before the timetable goes live, the line will be treated to three trains on Sundays between August 3rd and September 14th, instead of the long running two.

RailwayData | Table 172 - Shrewsbury - Swansea (Heart of Wales Line) (Summer 2025)

Timetables for the English, Scottish and Welsh national networks.

www.railwaydata.co.uk

Thats good news. The Sunday timetable definitely needs improving at just 2 trains a day currently.

 

[30907]

Meanwhile, TfW have taken some practical action to cover the Northern end of the line with additional bus journeys Llandrindod-Craven Arms, theoretically connecting with trains and which will accept rail tickets. Mostly filling gaps in the rail timetable, with some journeys from/to Builth Wells.
Service initially till 31 August, operator Celtic Travel of Llanidloes, who already operate out of Builth.
https://busandtrainuser.com/2025/02/11/the-heart-of-wales-welcomes-the-secret-x48/

...One advantage of having a Transport for Wales ‘guiding mind’ overseeing both trains and buses across the Welsh nation is it can plug gaps in a rail timetable with a replacement bus service at much cheaper costs than reinstating trains, as well as being able to do so at very short notice compared to how long it takes to organise a train timetable.

And that’s exactly what happened in December when TfW in partnership with Powys County Council contracted Celtic Travel to run a new bus route numbered X48 between Llandrindod Wells and Craven Arms covering the northern end of the Heart of Wales line...

 

[Meerkat]

Meanwhile, TfW have taken some practical action to cover the Northern end of the line with additional bus journeys Llandrindod-Craven Arms, theoretically connecting with trains and which will accept rail tickets. Mostly filling gaps in the rail timetable, with some journeys from/to Builth Wells.
Service initially till 31 August, operator Celtic Travel of Llanidloes, who already operate out of Builth.
https://busandtrainuser.com/2025/02/11/the-heart-of-wales-welcomes-the-secret-x48/

There’s an obvious next step…..

 

[Bletchleyite]

There’s an obvious next step…..

There is. But there's plenty of history of joint bus/rail services in Wales, such as the old Conwy Valley evening commuter bus, and it really isn't a bad idea provided tickets are interavailable.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Thats good news. The Sunday timetable definitely needs improving at just 2 trains a day currently.

It is good news, albeit we are talking about six or seven Sundays only. At the very least, it seems TfW has someone thinking about doing something with the line.

What is worrying, however, is the execution. HoWL services last summer fell prey to crew shortages, I seem to remember, and this will be exactly the peak holiday period. So if they all run, great, but if not, it means disappointed passengers who might be saying 'never again' when it comes to train travel over the line.

 

[Jez]

It is good news, albeit we are talking about six or seven Sundays only. At the very least, it seems TfW has someone thinking about doing something with the line.

What is worrying, however, is the execution. HoWL services last summer fell prey to crew shortages, I seem to remember, and this will be exactly the peak holiday period. So if they all run, great, but if not, it means disappointed passengers who might be saying 'never again' when it comes to train travel over the line.

I agree. Is Sunday now part of the working week rather than reliant on overtime? If so hopefully that will mean there will be enough crew for these services.

A look at the timetable the existing 2 Sunday services are broadly the same time as usual with the extra service earlier on in the day. Hopefully useful for day trips.

 

[craigybagel]

I agree. Is Sunday now part of the working week rather than reliant on overtime? If so hopefully that will mean there will be enough crew for these services.

At present, only for drivers. Guards change over in May.

Staff levels in general are a lot higher than last year as well; it should be a lot easier to staff services now.

 

[Dai Corner]

The Welsh Government have undertaken to increase the timetable to five trains a day again.

This is part of a package negotiated with Jane Dodds, the sole Lib Dem MS, in return for voting for their new budget which wouldn't otherwise get through Senedd.

 

[DelW]

The Welsh Government have undertaken to increase the timetable to five trains a day again.

This is part of a package negotiated with Jane Dodds, the sole Lib Dem MS, in return for voting for their new budget which wouldn't otherwise get through Senedd.

Interesting, I wonder whether that will turn out to be a reinstatement of the 2023/4 timetable, or a new variant? I'm guessing it's unlikely to happen in May, though December might be possible.

 

[craigybagel]

Interesting, I wonder whether that will turn out to be a reinstatement of the 2023/4 timetable, or a new variant? I'm guessing it's unlikely to happen in May, though December might be possible.

It would be hard put in an exact reinstatement. For a variety of reasons crew exchanges on crossing trains needs to take place at Llandrindrod and not Llanwrtyd.

 

[DelW]

It would be hard put in an exact reinstatement - crossings - for a variety of reasons crew exchanges need to take place at Llandrindrod and not Llanwrtyd.

I was afraid of that - as an admittedly occasional user, the timings with late morning, and evening, trains crossing at Llanwrtyd suited me better!