Could we see more consistent branding for rail services in Britain?

[matt_world2004]

If all the franchises are being run as concessions it would make sense to have a single publically owned point dmdoibg the branding , marketing retailing and customer service keeping them along franchise lines no longer makes sense from a customer service and efficency perspective.

 

[pdeaves]

single publically owned point dmdoibg the branding

Please excuse my ignorance, but what did you mean to write there?

 

[WesternLancer]

single publically owned point dmdoibg the branding , marketing retailing and customer service keeping

You might think so, but this would be an absolute anathema to the party of govt from the PM downwards. In fact I'd go so far as to say they would simply not believe such a body could even begin to do that.
'Marketing' and 'publically owned' just do not go together in the conservative rule book. And 'customer service' certainly don't either. Blinkered ideology of course but there we have it.

BR had some genuinely great marketing campaigns (delivered by private sector advertising agencies no doubt), but if someone raised that at the cabinet table I suspect Boris J would just start reminding people about Jimmy Saville and Gary Glitter...

It's probably be down to what they see as least worst: civil servants or publicly owned quango type bodies.

 

[Meerkat]

If all the franchises are being run as concessions it would make sense to have a single publically owned point dmdoibg the branding , marketing retailing and customer service keeping them along franchise lines no longer makes sense from a customer service and efficency perspective.

Why doesn’t it make sense? What is so great about a BR brand apart from some people’s nostalgia?
Local branding gives attachment - ‘our trains’. And different branding protects the good bits from the bad bits - one terrible service does less damage to the image of the other services - ‘Northern are terrible, but TPE is OK’.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

I reckon we could be seeing the unified "National Rail" blue logo brand becoming more prominent in next few years, to be shared by all English TOCs.

Instead of separate TOC specific promotional material that we could see the same NatRail posters promoting fares etc nationwide whether you are in Newcastle or Norwich instead of that TOC's design theme.

I think the current TOCs and liveries will continue as they are probably with a small wordmark on the sides for all English TOCs like "South Western Railway is operated for National Rail" with a small NatRail logo?

 

[matt_world2004]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what did you mean to write there?

Doing . Damn autocorrect or whatever it was typing.

 

[matt_world2004]

Why doesn’t it make sense? What is so great about a BR brand apart from some people’s nostalgia?
Local branding gives attachment - ‘our trains’. And different branding protects the good bits from the bad bits - one terrible service does less damage to the image of the other services - ‘Northern are terrible, but TPE is OK’.

The TfL model works. Because there is a single point of customer service, branding and ticketing for all their managed concessions. It creates a managed consistency where customers know who to contact for any issue. To the point that most don't know they are operated by different concessions. If I have a complaint about a bus route say I do not need to look at who operates it to complain. Just go on the TfL website and file a complaint. Same with Overground and DLR

 

[Purple Orange]

I think the branding during the franchise years has been one of it’s more beneficial elements. The only successful BR brand was Intercity, which I think is because it had a defined service (long-distance trains), defined images (The font, the HST, the swallow livery) and defined service levels (1st class, buffet cars).

London Underground has been a success for decades, for similar reasons. The TfL brand is not what has made the branding in London a success, but rather it was the roundel, the map and the physical infrastructure that has defined the brand. It became an image of London and it’s success has been exported to other modes.

The franchise brands has enabled the definition, identity and service levels of each of the TOCs, with their brand succeeding or failing as a result of their own performance. Not many brands have succeeded, but some have. Virgin had succeeded, helped by the fact that it was a successful brand to begin with. Northern has not been a successful brand, while TPE has only recently become a strong brand.

There are other successes too: Tyne & Wear Metro, Manchester Metrolink are successful and are images of their city. Others have failed: Southern, SWT, South Eastern and before them Regional Railways and Network South East.

Going forward I hope branding takes a leaf out of the books of Intercity, Virgin, Transpennine Express, Tyne & Wear Metro and Manchester Metrolink, because the brands can help the service too.

 

[Meerkat]

The TfL model works. Because there is a single point of customer service, branding and ticketing for all their managed concessions. It creates a managed consistency where customers know who to contact for any issue. To the point that most don't know they are operated by different concessions. If I have a complaint about a bus route say I do not need to look at who operates it to complain. Just go on the TfL website and file a complaint. Same with Overground and DLR

But you don’t propose a TfL model - you would lose TfL in a big mess with Northern and Merseyrail etc.
Customer service would then be a call centre miles away that doesn’t know which Waterloo you mean.

Others have failed: Southern, SWT, South Eastern and before them Regional Railways and Network South East.

Out of interest why do you think SWT branding failed? The blue/red/white trains are much better than the SWR dullness.

 

[Purple Orange]

Out of interest why do you think SWT branding failed? The blue/red/white trains are much better than the SWR dullness.

I should have been clearer, I meant all the incarcerations of southern, south west and south eastern trains have not established a good brand in my opinion.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I should have been clearer, I meant all the incarcerations of southern, south west and south eastern trains have not established a good brand in my opinion.

Someone needs incarcerating for the mess surrounding the Southern "DOO debacle" and the effect that had on the service, but I wouldn't say the brands had major problems - they're commuter services anyway, they aren't and won't ever be exciting.

 

[Purple Orange]

Someone needs incarcerating for the mess surrounding the Southern "DOO debacle" and the effect that had on the service, but I wouldn't say the brands had major problems - they're commuter services anyway, they aren't and won't ever be exciting.

I disagree about commuter services not being able to have a good brand. As per my my earlier point, London Underground, Tyne & Wear Metro and Manchester Metrolink all have good brands, but that might be due to being more closely linked to the region they serve.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I disagree about commuter services not being able to have a good brand. As per my my earlier point, London Underground, Tyne & Wear Metro and Manchester Metrolink all have good brands, but that might be due to being more closely linked to the region they serve.

I suspect the reason for those brands being stronger is their longevity - they have all existed longer than any rail franchise or indeed privatisation itself. Not that long in the case of Metrolink, but LU, T&W Metro and indeed Merseyrail many times longer. LU obviously dates back many tens of years, and T&W Metro and Merseyrail brands are well over 30 years old now.

The other thing about Metrolink is that if you ever go to Manchester city centre you can't fail to notice it even if you always drive everywhere. That might have helped it become established as a brand - it's part of the scenery. You don't see heavy rail trains as much unless you use them.

 

[Purple Orange]

I suspect the reason for those brands being stronger is their longevity - they have all existed longer than any rail franchise or indeed privatisation itself. Not that long in the case of Metrolink, but LU, T&W Metro and indeed Merseyrail many times longer. LU obviously dates back many tens of years, and T&W Metro and Merseyrail brands are well over 30 years old now.

They are also symbols of their respective cities, which is hard for many TOCs to replicate. I suspect a unified brand for long distance services, even INTERCITY itself, may work.

 

[Llandudno]

I suspect the reason for those brands being stronger is their longevity - they have all existed longer than any rail franchise or indeed privatisation itself. Not that long in the case of Metrolink, but LU, T&W Metro and indeed Merseyrail many times longer. LU obviously dates back many tens of years, and T&W Metro and Merseyrail brands are well over 30 years old now.

The other thing about Metrolink is that if you ever go to Manchester city centre you can't fail to notice it even if you always drive everywhere. That might have helped it become established as a brand - it's part of the scenery. You don't see heavy rail trains as much unless you use them.

Indeed, if you fail to see a Metrolink tram in Manchester City Centre, you will get run over by one, especially around Market Street and St Peters Square!

 

[Bletchleyite]

They are also symbols of their respective cities, which is hard for many TOCs to replicate. I suspect a unified brand for long distance services, even INTERCITY itself, may work.

Yeah. I think people would generally say "we'll get the train" rather than "we'll travel with South West Trains". The thing that helps three of those brands is that while they are sort-of trains, they are also distinct transport modes - "the tube, the tram, the metro" or whatever. FWIW nobody I ever knew said "we'll go on Merseyrail" - it was a well known brand (and an often derided one, particularly after incidents like the early-90s "winter of discontent" when they installed an entirely non-functional new signalling system and PIS and had to replace the lot with it never quite having worked as intended), but not quite as strong as the "not quite a train" modes.

 

[Purple Orange]

Yeah. I think people would generally say "we'll get the train" rather than "we'll travel with South West Trains". The thing that helps three of those brands is that while they are sort-of trains, they are also distinct transport modes - "the tube, the tram, the metro" or whatever. FWIW nobody I ever knew said "we'll go on Merseyrail" - it was a well known brand (and an often derided one, particularly after incidents like the early-90s "winter of discontent" when they installed an entirely non-functional new signalling system and PIS and had to replace the lot with it never quite having worked as intended), but not quite as strong as the "not quite a train" modes.

I suppose Merseyrail is a bit of a mouthful, therefore a colloquial term is needed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suppose Merseyrail is a bit of a mouthful, therefore a colloquial term is needed.

People do use the term, but normally when wishing to be specific about who was operating the train service they wanted to be derogatory about