Covid restrictions abroad: updates & observations

[nw1]

How can the UK government's decision be "late" if Chinese citizens will only be allowed to travel abroad for tourism purposes after January 8th?

Late in keeping the Chinese business-people out! (assuming business travel is currently allowed)

 

[Peterthegreat]

Late in keeping the Chinese business-people out! (assuming business travel is currently allowed)

And of course other nationalities travelling from China!

 

[duncanp]

Late in keeping the Chinese business-people out! (assuming business travel is currently allowed)

Well of course.

COVID doesn't affect business people, just the mass tourism market.

 

[nw1]

It probably has a lot to do with China being happy to introduce such restrictions from everywhere else over the past two years.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander......

But let's not take it out on the ordinary Chinese people, many of whom (privately, obviously) doubtless detest the Xi regime.

That would be no better than banning all UK citizens from the EU due to Brexit.

Government policy is the fault of the government of a given country, not its people. Particularly in dictatorial regimes such as that of the CCP.

 

[matthewjohnson]

How can the UK government's decision be "late" if Chinese citizens will only be allowed to travel abroad for tourism purposes after January 8th?

They're either very xenophobic or still somehow scared of the virus, or both. Makes no logicL sense otherwise. Or they're just using it as a stick to beat the tories with which has been the case all along

 

[nw1]

They're either very xenophobic or still somehow scared of the virus, or both. Makes no logicL sense otherwise

I did hear someone on the radio saying they were "isolating for the new year due to Covid, for the second year in a row" so I guess there is still some residual excessive anxiety around.

The real big question I would have of such a person is "Why did you test? Why did you not just stay off work until you felt better?" They'd be just as likely to make someone else ill if they had flu instead of Covid, so what difference does a test make?

 

[yorksrob]

But let's not take it out on the ordinary Chinese people, many of whom (privately, obviously) doubtless detest the Xi regime.

That would be no better than banning all UK citizens from the EU due to Brexit.

Government policy is the fault of the government of a given country, not its people.

Hmm. I agree to an extent, but the Communist party seems to retain a certain amount of popularity and support in the country. Why shouldn't compliant citizens experience comparatively trivial consequences of their countries policies such as requiring a negative covid test to go abroad.

Anyway, the man or woman in the Beijing street have the comfort that Covid will be done within a year. They can return to normality (whatever that is under Xi Xing Ping).

 

[nw1]

Hmm. I agree to an extent, but the Communist party seems to retain a certain amount of popularity and support in the country.

I wonder how much of this is genuine support and how much is merely being seen to not be a dissident, because the consequences of being a dissident could be severe.

 

[yorkie]

The BBC have published a junk article regarding India's reaction to China's high Covid levels:

India Covid: Experts say people don't need to panic over China coronavirus surge

A surge in Covid-19 cases in China creates a sense of fear among Indians about a fourth wave.

www.bbc.co.uk

Some of the junk they are parroting includes:

"With time, the level of antibodies go down. So a third shot is always beneficial and will increase the level of antibodies," Dr Lahariya says, adding that it's good for people above 60 years of age.

You'd have thought someone with the level of intelligence required to obtain a Doctorate would understand that constantly boosting antibody levels is not the solution, but obviously not.

Another clueless Doctor is recommending masks:

"Make it a habit to wear masks in crowded places - watching a football or cricket match, or on a crowded bus or train," he says, adding that he recommends creating "long-term, sustainable behavioural changes".

Yeah, and masks worked great in China, didn't they (!). These mask fantasists are obsessed with trying to change societal norms; these people are quite frankly dangerous and must be resisted every step of the way.

I thought the BBC had got over this sort of nonsense, but clearly not.

Back to travel and the BBC have done much better with this article:

Do restrictions on travel work against Covid?

Is there evidence that travel restrictions help stop the spread of coronavirus?

www.bbc.co.uk

"We've seen that with the bans on travel from various countries during the pandemic, that hasn't stopped those viruses travelling around the world eventually."
The word "eventually" is important here, because studies suggest that travel restrictions tend only to delay the spread of the virus spreading in a country, but cannot keep it out completely.

It has also been suggested that restrictions would prevent potential new variants of Covid reaching the UK.
However, if there is such a variant, said Prof Woolhouse, travel restrictions would be too late.
"It will almost certainly have got here already," he said

"Targeted border measures against China may be more of a political statement in response to lack of information-sharing than a sincere attempt to promote public health," said Catherine Worsnop

I'll give the BBC 1/10 for the first article and 8/10 (which is amazing by BBC standards) for the second.

I wonder how much of this is genuine support and how much is merely being seen to not be a dissident, because the consequences of being a dissident could be severe.

I think the protests which occurred about 5 weeks ago give us a good answer to that!

 

[yorksrob]

I wonder how much of this is genuine support and how much is merely being seen to not be a dissident, because the consequences of being a dissident could be severe.

I suspect both to an extent. There are dissidents and there are supporters.

 

[gabrielhj07]

I see that these testing restrictions will, logically, only apply from 05JAN!

A bit of bottom-covering from government then.

 

[102 fan]

Do you mean the Covid modelling data? I see no reason to postpone anything.

I've no wish to see anything covid related postponed, but it looks like the government is backsliding into 2020.

 

[TPO]

Covid in China: Checks on visitors under review - UK defence minister

The UK is considering restrictions on visitors from China as the US, Japan and Italy reintroduce testing.

www.bbc.co.uk

(Ironically Labour hasn’t said a word in support of more restrictions, underlining the nonsense of the left/right split!).

I think “travel testing from China” has strong “politicians want to do it because it will be popular* and look tough, and if they don’t the opposition will make them look weak, but scientists keep inconveniently giving the wrong answer” vibes. The UK Gov has flip-flopped on this about 4 times in the last 3 days. It’s beginning to feel inevitable.


* I do disagree with you that it would be unpopular -I think it would be very popular, that’s the problem.

Yeah, that worries me too. I also think it would be popular unfortunately.

I'm not so sure. Might just be the people I mix with, but they're a combination of supporters of restrictions or resigned to doing it all again "if we have to". The media can easily persuade these folk that we "have to" with a few scary stories about variants and a collapsing health service

Yes, this. it was never about real risk, all about media hype/manipulation (propaganda).

...and all this testing sets the stage nicely for the discovery of some new scary-sounding 'variant', which can then be used for another trip around the pointlessly damaging cycle of the last few years.

Cynical, moi? Well, yes, you'd be crazy not to be at this point... Hopefully we won't be naive enough to fall for it this time. I guess we'll see.

And just like that the real problems in this country, inflation, cost of living, strikes etc are swept under the carpet and removed from the public psyche (the stupid ones anyway). The CCP have once again played a blinder

I hate to admit it @MikeWM, but I share your cynicism........ if I were to be even more cynical, I could say that another COVID/flu crisis would also give the govt guilt-trip levers to lean on nurses and railway staff (and others asking for a reasonable pay increase) to stop striking "in the public good during a crisis" or worse still, to bring in draconian anti-strike legislation under such a cover. That is extremely scary as a possibility, I dearly hope that Starmer notes that peril and this time pushes back against restrictions.

[Whilst I believe that ail strikes are somewhat counterproductive in the current climate, nevertheless I TOTALLY defend the right of all workers to go on strike or take other action they deem fit to improve their conditions. I may on occasion have an opinion that a particular set of tactics on a particular occasion isn't likely to be effective- but even so those rights are hard-won and must be defended. And where strikes are not allowed for a genuine reason- e.g. police, military- the deal in return should be a consistently EXCELLENT pay/T&Cs settlement reflecting the great necessity of those services such that basic rights are withheld].

TPO

 

[yorkie]

I think the matter of strikes (for any industry) is best avoided in this thread.

Does anyone have any news on Germany yet? I'd like to visit on an Interrail in April, but I will only do it if they have got rid of masks on long distance trains by then.

Spain is another place I'd like to visit again, but I understand they stubbornly won't revisit mask rules until March!

 

[Class 33]

The issue in 2020 and the first half of 2021 was that polls consistently showed people wanted strict measures in response to Covid. The government at the time I do actually think was not keen on restrictions but was essentially forced into due them to media and public pressure.

I too would say that was debatable that people WANTED strict Covid measures throughout 2020 and into the first half of 2021. The general feeling I got from people was that by autumn 2020 MANY people were absolutely sick and tired of those stupid pointless "Covid measures" and wanted them to end!!!! Though it is true that the government were continuing to keep all that nonsense going due to the press and media pressure to keep them going and make them even stricter. The press and media were being a darn nuisance throughout that period. They were an absolute disgrace!

 

[gabrielhj07]

I too would say that was debatable that people WANTED strict Covid measures throughout 2020 and into the first half of 2021. The general feeling I got from people was that by autumn 2020 MANY people were absolutely sick and tired of those stupid pointless "Covid measures" and wanted them to end!!!! Though it is true that the government were continuing to keep all that nonsense going due to the press and media pressure to keep them going and make them even stricter. The press and media were being a darn nuisance throughout that period. They were an absolute disgrace!

I think this is partly true. Listening to LBC I hear the majority of young (university age) callers are just desperate for this nonsense to persist. One such caller suggested that 2020-esque paranoia should prevail year round to stop the flu!

 

[matthewjohnson]

I think this is partly true. Listening to LBC I hear the majority of young (university age) callers are just desperate for this nonsense to persist. One such caller suggested that 2020-esque paranoia should prevail year round to stop the flu!

Which I don't understand at all. They should be desperate to get "out there" doing things young people are supposed to do, not pratting around wearing masks and social distancing

 

[gabrielhj07]

I could not agree more, however I fear that having such a large proportion of their lives restrained it has become difficult to imagine normal life.

 

[danm14]

Which I don't understand at all. They should be desperate to get "out there" doing things young people are supposed to do, not pratting around wearing masks and social distancing

For an awful lot of young people, life is just one massive virtue signal. In many cases, they don't even genuinely hold those views, but are terrified of the perceived repercussions of outing themselves as not holding them.

 

[gabrielhj07]

For an awful lot of young people, life is just one massive virtue signal. In many cases, they don't even genuinely hold those views, but are terrified of the perceived repercussions of outing themselves as not holding them.

That's dedication!

 

[danm14]

That's dedication!

It really is a sight to behold, unfortunately.

As someone in my mid-20s, several people I went to school with were secretly holding illegal parties twice and three times a week during the various lockdowns, while telling everyone that would listen how important it was to follow the restrictions. I couldn't even begin to count the number of people my age that I know of who had been going on secret drinking weekends in Belfast as soon as the pubs reopened there, yet were vocally opposed to the reopening of pubs in the Republic two months later because it "risked causing another lockdown". And again, I know lots of people my age that wouldn't shut up about how selfish it was to travel during a global pandemic but had no issue with a secret holiday or two in England to experience normal life again while Ireland was still in quasi-lockdown.

 

[MikeWM]

Rather disappointing, if unsurprising, to see Mark Harper (of all people) trying to justify this nonsense on Twitter. As with most people, it seems the ministerial shilling is viewed as more important than past principles.

That said, the replies/ratio he is getting are somewhat reassuring. Not much support there!

I think they'd need to really ramp up the fear before they could try to do anything domestically. And I think a lot of people would see through that too, now. Hopefully enough.

 

[danm14]

Rather disappointing, if unsurprising, to see Mark Harper (of all people) trying to justify this nonsense on Twitter.

It's deeply concerning to me to see so many of the politicians who opposed Covid restrictions in the past coming out in support of this.

 

[Butts]

It really is a sight to behold, unfortunately.

As someone in my mid-20s, several people I went to school with were secretly holding illegal parties twice and three times a week during the various lockdowns, while telling everyone that would listen how important it was to follow the restrictions. I couldn't even begin to count the number of people my age that I know of who had been going on secret drinking weekends in Belfast as soon as the pubs reopened there, yet were vocally opposed to the reopening of pubs in the Republic two months later because it "risked causing another lockdown". And again, I know lots of people my age that wouldn't shut up about how selfish it was to travel during a global pandemic but had no issue with a secret holiday or two in England to experience normal life again while Ireland was still in quasi-lockdown.

Surely the answer was to expose and challenge their hypocrisy at the time they were pontificating ?

 

[danm14]

Surely the answer was to expose and challenge their hypocrisy at the time they were pontificating ?

At the time - given that much of what they were doing was illegal, and there were plenty of people around who would have taken the utmost pleasure in having a quiet word in the authorities' ears regarding the smallest indiscretion - I thought it better to keep my mouth firmly shut despite their hypocrisy, as I would have hated to see anyone prosecuted for living life as a result of my actions. In hindsight, perhaps that was not such a good idea.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Official Announcement

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...uced-to-improve-covid-surveillance-from-china

 

[Butts]

Official Announcement

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...uced-to-improve-covid-surveillance-from-china

Although there are no direct flights in, I'm sure Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland will follow suit.

Guess the ROI will as well.

 

[MikeWM]

It's deeply concerning to me to see so many of the politicians who opposed Covid restrictions in the past coming out in support of this.

Yes, but it is somewhat informative (if we didn't already know) that it is very much the system that is largely the issue, not individual politicians.

As an aside, if anyone was thinking of voting Reform because ConLabLibGreen have all been strongly for restrictions, Nigel 'put Tony Blair in charge of the vaccination rollout' Farage was one of those calling for these tests to be put in place for Chinese travellers earlier today. So no help there either.

 

[danm14]

Although there are no direct flights in, I'm sure Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland will follow suit.

The announcement states that they are being instructed to do this.

Guess the ROI will as well.

I wouldn't be so sure - the current Irish government are always looking for brownie points from the EU (who say this is unnecessary) and would hate to be seen to be following the UK.

 

[Butts]

The announcement states that they are being instructed to do this.

I wouldn't be so sure - the current Irish government are always looking for brownie points from the EU (who say this is unnecessary) and would hate to be seen to be following the UK.

I think you'll find the word you were looking for is consulted about the measure - Devolved Matter !!