Still today it would appear the EU are unable to make a decision and Spain had "broken ranks" Not sure if there is movement allowed between EU countries or not currently but does this then allow people to go elsewhere in the EU.
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Covid restrictions abroad: updates & observations
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Bantamzen
Established Member
And those rates are falling, so that is likely to come down quicker as vaccinations roll out.
Throughout the pandemic the EU have allowed member states to set their own rules on entry, mitigations, restrictions etc. So they are not really breaking ranks, although they are sending a message that they want the tourism trade to get going again which might help focus minds across their fellow member states & the UK.
brad465
Established Member
Italy, Spain and France all have around 33% of their population vaccinated with at least one dose, while Germany is ahead on around 39%. Denmark is lower on 30% but this isn't stopping them lifting a number of restrictions and returning to normal before everyone is vaccinated. The former countries announcing relaxed travel restrictions despite having a lower proportion vaccinated compared to us (~55%) shows at least they acknowledge a balancing act a bit more than us right now (even if not perfect), and that the Indian variant, or any other variants for that matter, isn't bothering them as much.
Germany barring all UK Citizens from entering the Country from midnight Sunday 23rd due to the high level of infections in the UK !
Bantamzen
Established Member
Clearly a half arsed, petty political point scoring excercise from another of the bedwetting leaders.
Presumably looking at case rates, without normalising for the amount of testing we're doing.
Britons will soon be barred from entering Germany after the country’s Public Health Institute designated the UK as a virus variant level area of concern.
From midnight on Sunday, May 23, people travelling to Germany from Great Britain and Northern Ireland may only enter the country if they are a German citizen or resident.
People who are only transferring from one flight to another will still be allowed in, however they must remain in the airport transit area.
The move comes after Spain lifted travel restrictions on British visitors, with the country’s prime minister Pedro Sanchez saying Spain will be “delighted, extremely delighted” to receive British tourists again.
Spain is lifting its restrictions on travellers from the United Kingdom beginning on Monday.
Germany and Spain are both on the Government’s amber list, meaning travellers must quarantine at home for 10 days and take a pre-departure test and two post-arrival tests.
Bantamzen
Established Member
Exactly, a petty point scoring excercise. Merkel has long been peeved at the UK for getting the vaccine programme right, and this is just an extension of her fury at it.
ExRes
Established Member
What a wonderful example of toy throwing spite from Merkel, such a shame we aren't in her club any longer
so...if you have been jabbed, you have to take a pre-departure test, which comes back negative, or I assume you do not fly......the German issue is ..... ?
ExRes
Established Member
The only issue the Germans have is that they're trying to throw their weight around and be EU No 1
Yes but rules on entry have tended to be set on the basis that they are more severe than the EU position, e.g. the new German announcement.
The Spain situation goes the other way and also includes Japan currently suffering from a fourth wave. Over 5200 new cases and 106 deaths reported there today. Just seems a very strange position to take.
Not really. Spain and Portugal (and to a lesser extent Italy) have a number of areas that are highly dependent on tourist income. They are desperate to get that income back.
By comparison the Germany economy is based much more on manufacturing and 'white collar' jobs. So a loss of tourism doesn't concern them overly, and they are much more readily prepared to stop people where there is even a mild risk of importing variants.
How are they going to stop people walking across the borders? Some urban areas straddle the border e.g. Vaals, also around Kerkrade/Herzogenrath. I'd imagine that the Indian variant is already in Europe. If not, it soon will be.
The borders are porous and have long been so. But how many people actually walk across...?
I don't entirely agree with their decision, but I can understand the thinking that's behind it. They still have comparatively lower vaccination rates and have some way to go before they reach herd immunity.
The Indian variant will, in time, become the dominant variant across Europe (just as the Kent one did). But it's not dominant yet. And they want to keep it that way for as long as possible, to buy them time to vaccinate more of their population.
Even if only a handful of Indian variant cases make it over there, it will fast-track the process of it becoming the dominant strain. So it's "safer" to just shut the borders off to the UK.
It is of course a mentality that only makes sense if you are pursuing a zero Covid strategy, but you can't claim it's inconsistent with that strategy!
Bantamzen
Established Member
Just picking up on something I saw on the BBC News feed today:
At some point pretty soon the government is going to have to accept that vaccinations are not only there to make their statistics look good, they are supposed to be there to allow us to get back to normal, which includes unhindered travel when those nations allow us.
So according to Shapps, and presumably the cabinet, the virus is more risky to vaccinated people abroad than it is in the UK because of death rates? However the vaccine is proving to be highly effective to prevent serious illness & death, so what exactly is this increased risk (not to mention we've had more deaths here)? Also all EU countries are now ramping up vaccination programmes, which will further drive infection, hospitalisation & death rates down every single day.
At some point pretty soon the government is going to have to accept that vaccinations are not only there to make their statistics look good, they are supposed to be there to allow us to get back to normal, which includes unhindered travel when those nations allow us.
The argument here seems to be that, even if you have been double vaccinated, that isn't 100% effective at preventing Covid infections.
So to avoid the risk of any "vaccine evading" variant from transferring over to the UK, you need to avoid people going to areas where there are higher case rates, and thus a higher likelihood of them being infected with such a variant.
Whilst none of that is false as such, the risks we are talking about are extremely low, due to the number of unlikely outcomes that would have to combine. So it's ultimately a political decision to de facto ban most overseas travel in response to such a tiny risk.
The argument about a "New Variant" seems to be that the more the virus is in circulation the more likely it is to mutate into a new variant. If the level of infection in another country is therefore broadly the same as in the UK I can't see that it makes a difference? I mean the first "new variant" that the Government got in a flap about was the Kent one so obviously nothing to do with international travel.
If the green list is therefore only to countries with similar or lower levels of infection to the UK and no new "variants of concern" I can't see that foreign travel is any more risk than domestic travel (which of course, has no testing requirement).
However it is good to see a hint that the testing requirement might be reviewed in June.
I don't really buy the argument about passengers mixing at airports either. I mean there are no testing requirements for domestic flights and at most (all?) airports passengers from domestic and international flights will be mixing in at least some parts of the airport anyway. I think very few if any airports have a dedicated domestic terminal though I guess some smaller airports are effectively domestic only anyway. (I know passengers on arrivals from domestic flights will be routed a different to avoid customs/border but in most airports after that they mix, and at departures).
If the green list is therefore only to countries with similar or lower levels of infection to the UK and no new "variants of concern" I can't see that foreign travel is any more risk than domestic travel (which of course, has no testing requirement).
However it is good to see a hint that the testing requirement might be reviewed in June.
I don't really buy the argument about passengers mixing at airports either. I mean there are no testing requirements for domestic flights and at most (all?) airports passengers from domestic and international flights will be mixing in at least some parts of the airport anyway. I think very few if any airports have a dedicated domestic terminal though I guess some smaller airports are effectively domestic only anyway. (I know passengers on arrivals from domestic flights will be routed a different to avoid customs/border but in most airports after that they mix, and at departures).
Well Heathrow are converting T4 (T3 being used in the interim) for Red List flight arrivals to try to cut down the mixing, especially when queues are up to six hours at some times. However not all airports have the facility (or the will?) to do that. No idea what LGW and MAN are planning for example. Plus you also have the issue of those from red list countries coming via an amber country and then pulling them out of a queue to send to your Red list terminal.
I suppose, trying to understand the other side, the argument is that if a new variant emerges anywhere in the world, the more countries we are open to, the more easily it will find its way in.
The problem is that this is also an argument for not bothering with border controls beyond reasonable de-risking (testing or vaccine, applicable to high case rate countries only). Even with hotel-based quarantine, a variant will inevitably leak, just as the odd case leaks in Australia forcing then into new lockdowns to stamp it out; and because we aren’t at zero Covid we won’t be able to stamp out “just the nre variant”. If a variant isn’t a problem then we didn’t need to worry in the first place; and if it is a problem it’ll rapidly take over the country regardless of whether it’s seeded five times or fifty times. People forget that this whole thing started with one case.
The biggest queues, by far, are at border control. As domestic/CTA flights avoid that entirely, the biggest "risk" is avoided.
It would also be inconsistent to require tests for domestic flights, but not for trains, ferries or if you drive. So I can certainly understand the domestic 'exemption'.
It remains the case that this is all a political issue, and no matter how much politicians may suggest they are "led by the science", the reality is that they are influenced by a group of zero-Covid zealots, who happen to be scientists and also (unfortunately) their advisers.
It seems FRANCE is about to impose a Mandatory quarantine on all arrivals from the UK, due to the high level of infections (Indian Varient), is this now becoming a bit ridiculous ?
They do not seem bothered about the varient coming into the Country by other means.
They do not seem bothered about the varient coming into the Country by other means.
Macron trying to deflect attention from his awful approval ratings?
Quite. They have the better part of twenty times as many people in hospital currently compared to the UK. Maddeningly political all of it. I hope these places see sense as summer comes nearer, there's lots of European railways I want to visit! Currently between quarantine on arrival or back in the UK, lists, tests, some countries wanting you to be 'fully vaccinated' and some not, and daft local rules (e.g masks on beaches/outdoors in Spain, Portugal) it all looks like too much faff at the moment.
SouthEastBuses
On Moderation
Spain removed the requirement for masks on beaches as long as social distancing is possible.
Wychwood93
Member
Did the requirement apply to nudist beaches? Just asking.
TravelDream
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Germany's and France's bans are totally ridiculous. The Indian variant is already circulating there so there is no purpose whatsoever stopping it coming from the UK.
Do the rules stipulate how they are worn?
Do the rules stipulate how they are worn?
Epidemiological fact will always be trumped by political convenience.
ExRes
Established Member
I can think of three reasons 1) Spite 2) Spite 3) Spite
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