Covid restrictions abroad: updates & observations

[kevin_roche]

Yesterday, I arrived back from Greece and my Day 2 test was waiting for me as expected. I am due to take my Day 2 test tomorrow and the instructions tell me to ensure it is done prior to a collection on the same day from a priority post box. When I checked for postal collections tomorrow there isn't any.

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I'm at a loss as to whether to do the test tomorrow as legally required and post it on Sunday when there will be no collection so it will likely arrive too late and be invalid or do it on Monday and post it when it will be collected and arrive on time.

 

[221129]

I'm at a loss as to whether to do the test tomorrow as legally required and post it on Sunday when there will be no collection so it will likely arrive too late and be invalid or do it on Monday and post it when it will be collected and arrive on time.

The rule is on OR BEFORE Day2. You just have to take it. It doesn't matter when it gets sent off or the result back. No one is going to be checking.

(I know it is unenforceable and no one will check but it is law that you have to take it.)

 

[LAX54]

Vaccinated visitors from the UK have been allowed to visit the Netherlands since 22 September for any reason without quarantine. An antigen test is OK, so you don't need to spend extra on a PCR test. The antigen test needs to be less than 24 hours before departure.

There is a lot of documentation required. The quarantine declaration form is needed even if you are exempt from quarantine. A vaccine declaration form. A health questionnaire if you are arriving by air, unless you fly with certain airlines, such as easyJet, as they incorporate that into their check in. When you get to the Netherlands, your NHS Covid pass will get you into the country but you can't use it to get into restaurants. You need to take a daily test, which is free, to enable you to do that.

The NHS certificate issue seems bizarre to me, you can enter the Country with it, but not a restaurant or cafe ! you would have thought it would acceptable throughout !
No doubt the EU version would be valid over here.

 

[nw1]

When you get to the Netherlands, your NHS Covid pass will get you into the country but you can't use it to get into restaurants. You need to take a daily test, which is free, to enable you to do that.

While I am definitely on the 'remain' side and think Brexit is the stupidest thing the UK government has done for 100 years, that does sound monumentally petty. I always got the impression that Dutch governments, as a whole, tended to be more libertarian and rational in outlook than those of the UK; rejecting a vaccine certificate just because it's British is neither libertarian nor rational.

 

[johncrossley]

While I am definitely on the 'remain' side and think Brexit is the stupidest thing the UK government has done for 100 years, that does sound monumentally petty. I always got the impression that Dutch governments, as a whole, tended to be more libertarian and rational in outlook than those of the UK; rejecting a vaccine certificate just because it's British is neither libertarian nor rational.

To be clear, all non-EU vaccine passports are currently not accepted. Obviously there will be a domestic population who isn't vaccinated so they will need the daily tests as well.

 

[nw1]

The rule is on OR BEFORE Day2. You just have to take it. It doesn't matter when it gets sent off or the result back. No one is going to be checking.

(I know it is unenforceable and no one will check but it is law that you have to take it.)

The biggest cock-up I experienced was ordering the day 2 test back in March when returning to the UK. The company said they were legally bound to send it out to arrive on day 0, even though I was returning late in the evening on day 0. I asked for it to be sent to arrive on day 1 but this was rejected as being illegal.

Result being it arrived on day 0, and then due to quarantine I couldn't pick it up from the Royal Mail centre! Had to get a friend to pick it up then post it through the letter box. Knowing this government and its general ineptitude and incompetence, I suspect that it was indeed illegal to be sent to arrive on day 1 as the testing company claimed.

To be clear, all non-EU vaccine passports are currently not accepted. Obviously there will be a domestic population who isn't vaccinated so they will need the daily tests as well.

Not quite as bad as singling out the UK but still poor; it's the same insular mindset as Brexit ('non-British = bad') but in reverse ('non-EU = bad'). Still reflects badly on the Dutch government IMO.

 

[johncrossley]

Not quite as bad as singling out the UK but still poor; it's the same insular mindset as Brexit ('non-British = bad') but in reverse ('non-EU = bad'). Still reflects badly on the Dutch government IMO.

They probably have to scan the barcodes on entry so maybe they don't have the technology to verify non-EU barcodes. Similar problems exist in other European countries.

 

[221129]

I suspect that it was indeed illegal to be sent to arrive on day 1 as the testing company claimed.

That has never been the case.

 

[nw1]

That has never been the case.

(re: day 2 tests arriving on day 1, being supposedly illegal)

OK thanks for clearing that up; I stand corrected. Obviously had a testing company that didn't know what they were talking about in that case - particularly as day 1 was a weekday.

They probably have to scan the barcodes on entry so maybe they don't have the technology to verify non-EU barcodes. Similar problems exist in other European countries.

Still, a bit of training on certificates from commonly-encountered countries (so not just the UK but Norway, Switzerland, Serbia, Albania etc - also places like Japan, China, USA, Canada if they're allowed into the European continent yet) could resolve that problem.

Or better still (and I realise this is a controversial point of view) allow access to restaurants for unvaccinated people. With winter coming up, persisting such restrictions in a country not known for a warm winter climate such as the Netherlands (hence outside dining is a no-no now until April at the earliest, I suspect) is going to cause problems in the hospitality industry, which has already gone through a lot in the past 18 months.

 

[johncrossley]

(re: day 2 tests arriving on day 1, being supposedly illegal)

OK thanks for clearing that up; I stand corrected. Obviously had a testing company that didn't know what they were talking about in that case - particularly as day 1 was a weekday.



Still, a bit of training on certificates from commonly-encountered countries (so not just the UK but Norway, Switzerland, Serbia, Albania etc - also places like Japan, China, USA, Canada if they're allowed into the European continent yet) could resolve that problem.

Or better still (and I realise this is a controversial point of view) allow access to restaurants for unvaccinated people. With winter coming up, persisting such restrictions in a country not known for a warm winter climate such as the Netherlands (hence outside dining is a no-no now until April at the earliest, I suspect) is going to cause problems in the hospitality industry, which has already gone through a lot in the past 18 months.

According to:

UK ‘on verge of joining EU Covid passport scheme’ | Travel Weekly

Bid to make travel in Europe easier and cheaper

travelweekly.co.uk

the UK is joining the EU Covid vaccine passport scheme. Seems like it is taking some time to get the technical side fixed.

The UK is understood to be poised to join the EU Covid vaccine passport scheme.

The EU Digital Covid Certificate should make travelling in Europe easier and cheaper for British tourists.

The Daily Telegraph said on Saturday it had been told by the EU that integration of the UK’s vaccine database into the EU system was at an advanced stage.

“Significant progress was made on a technical front, namely when it comes to the connection to the gateway, with aim of going live [testing] soon,” said a spokesman for the European Commission.

The UK Foreign Office and Department of Health and Social Care have joint responsibility for the project in the UK. They formally applied to join the EU scheme on July 28, and technical work has been carrying on behind the scenes ever since.

A Foreign Office spokesman told the newspaper: “We have applied to link into the EU’s Digital Covid Certificate scheme.

“Linking up to the EU’s Digital Covid Certificate scheme will enable us to digitally verify each other’s Covid certificates to make journeys easier.”

The EU Digital Covid Certificate has quickly become the biggest vaccine passport scheme in the world and covers more than 40 countries, including all 27 EU states and others such as Israel and Panama.

The system is effectively a giant digital platform or “gateway” through which different countries’ vaccine certificates and test results can be scanned and verified as legitimate by others quickly and easily.

It is used on all external EU borders and also for domestic vaccine passports schemes operating in countries including France, Holland and Portugal.

Border guards download an app that can read the QR code on an individual’s vaccine certificate or negative test result. If the QR code has been issued by a participating country and is legitimate, the app flashes green and the person is clear to pass. Forged or unauthorised jabs are quickly picked up.

Joining the EU scheme should ease travel to and within continental Europe. Double-jabbed Britons travelling to Portugal, for example, must currently buy a lateral flow test before departure, at £20 to £40 a time, only because their jabs are not recognised by the EU Digital Covid Certificate.

This will change for Portugal and other countries once the UK joins the federalised EU system.

Airport Operators Association chief executive Karen Dee said the digital passport would “make life easy for business and leisure travellers” but urged the government to ditch day-two tests for fully-jabbed arrivals to align the UK with the testing regime in Europe.

Joining will also make access to restaurants, bars and events easier in countries that run domestic Covid passport schemes such as France,Italy, Portugal, Germany and Holland.

Several non-EU countries have already joined:

More countries are adopting the EU's digital COVID-19 certificate - here's what you need to know

The EU digital COVID certificate allows participating countries to digitally verify each other's COVID certificates to make travel easier.

www.lonelyplanet.com

The certificate is available to citizens and residents of all EU member states: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain and Sweden

It's also available to 16 non-EU countries and territories including Albania, Andorra, Switzerland, Faroe Islands, Israel, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Morocco, Monaco, North Macedonia, Norway, Panama, San Marino, Turkey, Ukraine and the Vatican. This means that COVID certificates issued in those places are accepted in the EU under the same conditions as the EU Digital COVID Certificate. Likewise, the EU Digital COVID Certificate is accepted by those 16 countries.

 

[LAX54]

According to:

UK ‘on verge of joining EU Covid passport scheme’ | Travel Weekly

Bid to make travel in Europe easier and cheaper

travelweekly.co.uk

the UK is joining the EU Covid vaccine passport scheme. Seems like it is taking some time to get the technical side fixed.



Several non-EU countries have already joined:

More countries are adopting the EU's digital COVID-19 certificate - here's what you need to know

The EU digital COVID certificate allows participating countries to digitally verify each other's COVID certificates to make travel easier.

www.lonelyplanet.com

so you have to wonder, if all those non-EU Countries have their system accepted, it cannot be that difficult to accept others as well, like the UK and USA ?

 

[Watershed]

This farce highlights just how ridiculous it is to discriminate on the basis of vaccination. It's no more than distraction politics - "look at those unvaccinated people, they are causing us all misery".

 

[AlterEgo]

This farce highlights just how ridiculous it is to discriminate on the basis of vaccination. It's no more than distraction politics - "look at those unvaccinated people, they are causing us all misery".

Yes it really is dancing on the head of a pin at this stage. The UK has excellent immunity from the vaccination programme and I don’t see there is a medical or moral case to discriminate against the unvaccinated. What is the point of the law exactly?

 

[yorkie]

Yes it really is dancing on the head of a pin at this stage. The UK has excellent immunity from the vaccination programme and I don’t see there is a medical or moral case to discriminate against the unvaccinated. What is the point of the law exactly?

I think there are different people with very different agendas pushing for this.

But I think the main purpose is probably to effectively force people into getting vaccinated, which is a real shame as it risks people pushing back as we don't like being forced into things in our culture. Most people have made the choice and were keen to get it done, and we should be doing more to increase confidence in the vaccines and encourage people to make good choices.

It seems about 10% of the population is reluctant, which is a relatively small proportion really (far lower than in the USA) and that 10% will end up being exposed to the virus anyway, so we'll still build up strong levels of population immunity, so it really seems pointless to force them into it.

Vaccinated people can still pass on the virus, albeit at a greatly reduced rate, so we are never going to eliminate the virus; we will reach an endemic equilibrium, as is the case with many other viruses including the pre-existing human Coronaviruses.

 

[Cdd89]

I think the main purpose is probably to effectively force people into getting vaccinated, which is a real shame as it risks people pushing back

I fully agree that it’s ethically dodgy and likely unnecessary… but when you say it risks pushback, that implies that it may not increase net uptake, and (if that’s your suggestion) then I’m not sure I agree?

My maths goes:

• Lots of the already-vaccinated will be repulsed and push back, but people can’t get de-vaccinated so that doesn’t affect uptake — this group can be effectively ignored
• Some of the unvaccinated will decide not to get vaccinated as a result, of which x% were going to soon, and y% were not going to soon
• Some of the unvaccinated will decide to get vaccinated as a result, of which a% were going to soon, and b% were not going to soon

I would be very surprised if b% is not higher than x%, but would be interested in any evidence to the contrary. (And that’s despite knowing someone in the US who is regrettably in the x%!)

 

[nlogax]

Top notch experience at Heathrow just now. No-one wanting or caring to see passenger locator forms. Pop through e-gates, pick up bag, leave airport. Meanwhile the day 2 test I ordered is nowhere to be seen. Well done all concerned.

 

[Cdd89]

No-one wanting or caring to see passenger locator forms. Pop through e-gates, pick up bag, leave airport

The e-gate would have checked that you submitted a PLF for the passport number you scanned.

 

[AlterEgo]

The e-gate would have checked that you submitted a PLF for the passport number you scanned.

It doesn’t. I tried this several months ago by filling out my PLF and not pressing submit until a moment after I’d passed the gates.

 

[Butts]

It doesn’t. I tried this several months ago by filling out my PLF and not pressing submit until a moment after I’d passed the gates.

Hmm that's interesting so the PLF is much of a charade as the tests - not verified.

 

[Cdd89]

It doesn’t. I tried this several months ago by filling out my PLF and not pressing submit until a moment after I’d passed the gates.

It was developed around May but left switched off for ages; it was only switched on last month as I understand it. It’s apparently a fairly crude check too (only to see if any PLF was submitted in the past couple of days).

Here is a source, which for those who know FT is quite authoritative.

 

[island]

They probably have to scan the barcodes on entry so maybe they don't have the technology to verify non-EU barcodes. Similar problems exist in other European countries.

The French and the Irish, amongst others, manage it perfectly well.

 

[danm14]

The NHS certificate issue seems bizarre to me, you can enter the Country with it, but not a restaurant or cafe ! you would have thought it would acceptable throughout !
No doubt the EU version would be valid over here.

No, it isn't.

The English/Welsh "NHS COVID Pass Verifier" app only accepts English/Welsh certificates. It can accept other UK certificates, but only in International mode, the use of which is prohibited by the Terms of Use except for travel providers. It doesn't accept any non-UK certificate, even those from the Republic of Ireland.

The Scottish "NHS Scotland COVID Check" app (which is just the English app permanently in International mode with a different style) accepts all UK certificates, but not any non-UK certificates.

Northern Ireland has no such app.

 

[big_rig]

Top notch experience at Heathrow just now. No-one wanting or caring to see passenger locator forms. Pop through e-gates, pick up bag, leave airport. Meanwhile the day 2 test I ordered is nowhere to be seen. Well done all concerned.

I have found arrival to the UK similarly fine but leaving foreign destinations to be awful. The other day when coming back from holiday it took 1hr45 just to drop my bags off at the airport, on account of how long it took staff to check covid certificates and passenger locator forms (not helped by a large number of passengers getting one of both things wrong). I certainly wouldn’t recommend flying a low cost airline which skimps on check in staff!! Rail travel to and from the continent however has been perfectly fine in this regard however

 

[Butts]

I have found arrival to the UK similarly fine but leaving foreign destinations to be awful. The other day when coming back from holiday it took 1hr45 just to drop my bags off at the airport, on account of how long it took staff to check covid certificates and passenger locator forms (not helped by a large number of passengers getting one of both things wrong). I certainly wouldn’t recommend flying a low cost airline which skimps on check in staff!! Rail travel to and from the continent however has been perfectly fine in this regard however

Were there similar queues at Club Europe/ Business Class Check In, I am going to Germany next week so relying on their fabled organisational acumen to see me through.

 

[kevin_roche]

I have found arrival to the UK similarly fine but leaving foreign destinations to be awful.

I came back from Crete on Friday. It was quite slow and lots of people having issues with the PLF. The couple in front of me had been unable to get the form to accept the 2 day test number given them by Boots.

I offered to help them and after taking a look at what they had been sent and comparing it with my number from EuroFins suggested they add "BOOTS" to the start of the code and drop a number of extra zeros off the end of it. Then it worked.

 

[Butts]

Are there different Categories of PCR Tests for Fit to Fly ?

The reason I am asking is because the ones conducted by Express Testing at Edinburgh Airport specifically exclude Jersey CI in the literature. I had one from Dam Health and it mentioned not being valid for Hong Kong and a couple of other places. The test surprised me that in rather a "nasal invasion" the clinician took a swab from either side of my throat only.

When I entered Jersey they asked me if my test had involved two swabs (intimating nose and throat) and I answered yes two swabs but didn't elaborate. I was released without testing on entry being required.

 

[big_rig]

Were there similar queues at Club Europe/ Business Class Check In, I am going to Germany next week so relying on their fabled organisational acumen to see me through.

No, it only seemed to afflict the proles (aka fellow easyJet customers)!

 

[Butts]

No, it only seemed to afflict the proles (aka fellow easyJet customers)!

Even those with "speedy boarding" ?

 

[nw1]

I have found arrival to the UK similarly fine but leaving foreign destinations to be awful. The other day when coming back from holiday it took 1hr45 just to drop my bags off at the airport, on account of how long it took staff to check covid certificates and passenger locator forms (not helped by a large number of passengers getting one of both things wrong). I certainly wouldn’t recommend flying a low cost airline which skimps on check in staff!! Rail travel to and from the continent however has been perfectly fine in this regard however

The worst experience I had recently was at one UK airport outbound. The member of staff lost his rag a little when I was slow trying to bring up PLF, vaccination certificate, etc. I do not blame him, mind - I suspect that the airline is trying to operate on a shoestring, being forced into a poor financial position by over-extended restrictions on international travel, and the staff that do remain are thus overworked.

The absolute ban on international travel which applied this spring in the UK was a huge mistake, and completely pointless given that we had Covid as bad, and probably worse than, most other European countries. It just seemed to be a display of authoritarianism and 'being seen to be doing something' to look good. Of course Hancock's indiscretions and Johnson's desire to reach a trade deal with Modi made a mockery of the whole thing.

By contrast the member of border staff arriving back in the UK was uncommonly polite (I have had some unpleasant experiences with border staff in airports in recent years even before Covid and Brexit - despite being a UK citizen they have treated me quite suspiciously for some unknown reason; maybe single male travellers with facial hair are seen as likely drug smugglers, or something - not sure).

 

[johncrossley]

maybe single male travellers with facial hair are seen as likely drug smugglers, or something - not sure

I don't even have facial hair and I've been questioned and searched by UK border staff more times than I can remember. But my skin isn't very pale.