Covid restrictions abroad: updates & observations

[Razorblades]

I presume an FFP2/FPP2 mask is acceptable where only a surgical mask is required, though.

I think a gimp mask would do TBH.

 

[zero]

I presume an FFP2/FPP2 mask is acceptable where only a surgical mask is required, though.

In Germany earlier this month, many people on ICE were wearing surgical, so I don't imagine it really matters.

 

[Butts]

Currently in Florence, Italy, not many masks on Tram from Airport to City or anywhere else.

 

[rg177]

Currently in Florence, Italy, not many masks on Tram from Airport to City or anywhere else.

It's only really in the North around Milan where any sort of substantial mask wearing has persisted. Seemed to be about 30-40% on peak time Trenord services.

Funnily enough, that was about the same percentage of people actually wearing masks in the likes of Puglia when it *was* a legal requirement.

 

[Butts]

It's only really in the North around Milan where any sort of substantial mask wearing has persisted. Seemed to be about 30-40% on peak time Trenord services.

Funnily enough, that was about the same percentage of people actually wearing masks in the likes of Puglia when it *was* a legal requirement.

Well my flight today has been cancelled due to Public Transport Industrial Action in Italy....

Shame, a free holiday extension courtesy of BA in Florence

Walking around today masks are definitely in abeyance and don't seem compulsory or widely adopted anywhere I've been.

 

[Nohab1142]

In Germany lifting of the mask requirement for public transport is starting.
Saxony-Anhalt will lift the mask obligation for regional trains and local public transport (busses and trams) on Thursday and Bavaria will follow on Sunday. Some states have annonced to end the mask rules end of December.
For long distance trains (ICE and IC) the federal government has said that the FFP2 rule will stay until April 2023

 

[Watershed]

In Germany lifting of the mask requirement for public transport is starting.
Saxony-Anhalt will lift the mask obligation for regional trains and local public transport (busses and trams) on Thursday and Bavaria will follow on Sunday. Some states have annonced to end the mask rules end of December.
For long distance trains (ICE and IC) the federal government has said that the FFP2 rule will stay until April 2023

Good to hear that. As discussed previously, Schleswig-Holstein has also mooted the non-renewal of its mandate at the end of the year. You'd like to hope that the federal government can't hold out if all (or most) of the states scrap their mandates - it would be totally insupportable. Then again, Vienna has held steadfast with its FFP2 mandate, so who knows!

 

[Richard Scott]

Good to hear that. As discussed previously, Schleswig-Holstein has also mooted the non-renewal of its mandate at the end of the year. You'd like to hope that the federal government can't hold out if all (or most) of the states scrap their mandates - it would be totally insupportable. Then again, Vienna has held steadfast with its FFP2 mandate, so who knows!

Vienna might have held on but last timeI was there compliance was no better than 50%, hopefully similar will happen on IC trains in Germany?

 

[xydancer]

Have just travelled on a DB Inter City Express from Basel to Karlsruhe. Mask wearing compliance around 70% (mix of FP2 and 'ordinary'). The on-train announcement said it was compulsory, although when the train manager came through the carriage, he said nothing to anyone not wearing one, and neither (from what I saw) did anyone else.

In Switzerland, masks seem to have vanished pretty much completely. I only saw a couple of people wearing them on trams/buses and IC/Regional Express trains the whole three days I was there.

 

[zero]

Have just travelled on a DB Inter City Express from Basel to Karlsruhe. Mask wearing compliance around 70% (mix of FP2 and 'ordinary'). The on-train announcement said it was compulsory, although when the train manager came through the carriage, he said nothing to anyone not wearing one, and neither (from what I saw) did anyone else.

In Switzerland, masks seem to have vanished pretty much completely. I only saw a couple of people wearing them on trams/buses and IC/Regional Express trains the whole three days I was there.

Switzerland hasn't required masks for 9-10 months or longer (like England), so it's not suprising that very few people wear them.

I took an ICE from Switzerland to the north of Germany too, in 1st class, I had an enclosed compartment to myself the whole trip. I did not wear a mask but nobody came by or even checked my ticket. The other passengers who also had compartments to themselves mostly didn't wear masks either.

 

[VauxhallandI]

It would be interesting to understand the gulf between the Swiss and German approach/mindset.

 

[scarby]

It would be interesting to understand the gulf between the Swiss and German approach/mindset.

I think what happened is that a tiny group of people in positions of authority in different countries were allowed to make decisions (which in many cases they weren't even qualified to make) on the fly, abandoning the pre-planned pandemic/epidemic response (apart from Sweden) and dismissing the need to have a robust debate around what measures were needed.

The outcome was of course the mess that we witnessed.

In Germany those people have stubbornly refused to dial back on a few of the restrictions, and, of course, admit that they are/were wrong. Because of both of these, now that the country is in the midst of the annual respiratory diseases season, it is difficult at this moment for them to suddenly say "mask requirements are lifted".

 

[railfan99]

Have just travelled on a DB Inter City Express from Basel to Karlsruhe. Mask wearing compliance around 70% (mix of FP2 and 'ordinary'). The on-train announcement said it was compulsory, although when the train manager came through the carriage, he said nothing to anyone not wearing one, and neither (from what I saw) did anyone else.

In Switzerland, masks seem to have vanished pretty much completely. I only saw a couple of people wearing them on trams/buses and IC/Regional Express trains the whole three days I was there.

Recently in Germany, Italy and Switzerland, I'd suggest compliance was highest in Germany (70-80 per cent on S-Bahns and ICE trains), but in Italy, heaps did not wear (and nor did I) while in Switzerland I don't recall anyone wearing one.

However conductors on German trains did not say anything to those not so covered. Good!

About time every government scrapped such mandates.

 

[Merseysider]

Currently on my way through Europe.

I noticed France’s metro stations still have reduced seating - one in every two seats on the platform were removed for social distancing. Not put back yet.

1907 Paris - Frankfurt train last night had of course no mask requirement within France, and only one person wearing one, but upon reaching Saarbrücken there was an announcement that we have now crossed the German border and a legal mask requirement is in place. In my carriage of about 20 people about 3 fumbled for a mask (which they soon took off) and the rest of the carriage, me included, continued to enjoy our journey without impediment

Police did board briefly, and said nothing to anyone.

This morning, I’d say at least 90% of people in Frankfurt Hbf were going about their business as normal with no mask, even pax & staff in the travel centre (even though according to DB the rules apply in stations too...) and a group of police officers on my platform engaged in conversation with no masks either.

Now on the Frankfurt - Nürnberg train and compliance is no higher than 50%. No dirty looks, comments or arguments with staff for those not complying.

I think Germans are finally getting tired of this rule

 

[Mainline421]

This morning, I’d say at least 90% of people in Frankfurt Hbf were going about their business as normal with no mask, even pax & staff in the travel centre (even though according to DB the rules apply in stations too...) and a group of police officers on my platform engaged in conversation with no masks either.

While the rules do vary based on the state I don't think anywhere even theoretically requires them in stations, certainly not Frankfurt. https://hessen.de/node/79 Even on trains wasn't enforced in June or September in my experience.

 

[Citybreak1]

I wouldn’t be visiting Germany before these rules are gone. Had a lovely trip to France and Belgium this year plan the same again next year. Not been to Germany since 2019.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Currently in new york and comparable to London for number of mask wearers
Theres a lot of promotion though to get boosters

 

[Mojo]

Currently in new york and comparable to London for number of mask wearers

I’m surprised it’s not higher, the city authorities in a few places launched a big pro-mask PR campaign the other week.

 

[Jamiescott1]

I’m surprised it’s not higher, the city authorities in a few places launched a big pro-mask PR campaign the other week.

Was expecting higher number of wearers but kgs really minimal

 

[yorkie]

Currently in new york and comparable to London for number of mask wearers
Theres a lot of promotion though to get boosters

Hardly any then? I thought New York had more mask wearers because of political reasons. I was in London yesterday and this morning and I don't recall seeing any masks on the tubes or trains or bus I caught.

I saw a lone old guy wearing an FFP2 type mask on the platform at York station, which was the first reminder of the pandemic for ages and he store out like a sore thumb; indeed it was reminisent of the grim reaper. I think I will always see masks as symbolic of oppression and irrational fear.

A friend is currently in Granada, Spain; he observed the following: "on the train from the French-Spanish border to Barcelona there was an announcement about obligatory masks but absolutely no-one apart from the guard was wearing them. On the train from Barcelona to Granada, there were announcements and staff went and spoke to people who weren't wearing masks. One of the staff members said 'these masks are just a complete pain' after telling people to wear them and on the tannoy staff said 'masks must be worn on board and cover nose and mouth - we are very sorry for the inconvenience caused'"

I don't think 'mandatory' mask wearing is going to continue much longer in places like Spain or Germany (indeed in Germany it is already being dismantled).

 

[MikeWM]

Does anyone remember the 'emergency lockdown' in Sweden in winter 2020? I certainly don't, but Devi Sridhar seems to have hallucinations of one:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/21/china-covid-surge-vaccination-data-infected

This is the real lesson from Sweden, which tried to avoid mandatory restrictions before entering an emergency lockdown in the winter of 2020.

(a 'useful' link is provided on the words 'winter of 2020', but it just links to a review of a book which mentions nothing whatever about this mythical event).

If we ever needed proof that some of these people just make stuff up as they go along to suit their agenda, this may be a rather good and trivial example.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Currently in Italy, and whilst some people do wear masks, only a tiny minority of them are wearing. The majority of people don't wear masks. These were the observations on both the Naples Alibus bus route from Airport to City Centre, and on a local train from Naples to a town in the north of the Campania region.

 

[Mainline421]

Does anyone remember the 'emergency lockdown' in Sweden in winter 2020? I certainly don't, but Devi Sridhar seems to have hallucinations of one:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/21/china-covid-surge-vaccination-data-infected


(a 'useful' link is provided on the words 'winter of 2020', but it just links to a review of a book which mentions nothing whatever about this mythical event).

If we ever needed proof that some of these people just make stuff up as they go along to suit their agenda, this may be a rather good and trivial example.

Not the first time such blatantly false claims have been published. It's probably worth letting them know about the error though, The Guardian should in theory hold themselves to higher standards than many outlets. https://www.theguardian.com/info/20...-complaint-about-guardian-or-observer-content

 

[duncanp]

Does anyone remember the 'emergency lockdown' in Sweden in winter 2020? I certainly don't, but Devi Sridhar seems to have hallucinations of one:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/21/china-covid-surge-vaccination-data-infected


(a 'useful' link is provided on the words 'winter of 2020', but it just links to a review of a book which mentions nothing whatever about this mythical event).

If we ever needed proof that some of these people just make stuff up as they go along to suit their agenda, this may be a rather good and trivial example.

A useful link to a book by....none other than....Devi Sridhar. Now there's a surprise.

Another paragraph is virtually a party political broadcast on behalf on the SNP, explaining how Saint Nicola would have been able to eliminate COVID in the summer of 2020 had it not been for those plague ridden Sassenachs flooding North of the border, and the fact that nasty old Westminster didn't want to follow a zero COVID policy.

Even if Scotland had been independent in 2020, it would have been very difficult for them to close the border completely, or at least not without severe economic consequences.

But little details like that don't seem to bother Devi.

She notes that in the summer of 2020 Scotland actually came within a whisker of getting cases down to zero, only to be foiled by a fresh wave imported by tourists. Sridhar hints that an independent Scotland – which would have been able to close its own borders and control its own furlough schemes, powers currently reserved for Westminster – might have enjoyed different outcomes. But given the political reality in 2020, was zero Covid ever a realistic aim if England wasn’t on board? It would have been fascinating to unpack all this in more detail.

 

[scarby]

Does anyone remember the 'emergency lockdown' in Sweden in winter 2020? I certainly don't, but Devi Sridhar seems to have hallucinations of one:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/21/china-covid-surge-vaccination-data-infected


(a 'useful' link is provided on the words 'winter of 2020', but it just links to a review of a book which mentions nothing whatever about this mythical event).

If we ever needed proof that some of these people just make stuff up as they go along to suit their agenda, this may be a rather good and trivial example.

Well I don't remember it. And I live in Sweden, so I think I might be more qualified to know than she does.

This was one of the things that annoyed me at the time, that people suddenly became experts on Sweden's policies, who had most likely never even set foot in the country or engaged in any dialogue with people living in the country and/or making the decisions.

There were some serious restrictions that winter, but people were free to come and go from their homes as they pleased and to travel around the country and in and out of the country. Plus restaurants/bars remained open throughout albeit with restricted hours, I think at one point they had to close at 8pm, I can't remember exactly. But when people were able to do all those things, the term "emergency lockdown" is a total untruth.

 

[ABB125]

Apologies for not having the will to research this myself, but could someone please tell me what the official mask rules are on public transport across the channel? Would I be right in saying that the only country still requiring masks on public transport is Germany?
Thanks

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Apologies for not having the will to research this myself, but could someone please tell me what the official mask rules are on public transport across the channel? Would I be right in saying that the only country still requiring masks on public transport is Germany?
Thanks

I believe Spain also requires masks. Possibly also Portugal but @Giugiaro can correct me on this

 

[Watershed]

Apologies for not having the will to research this myself, but could someone please tell me what the official mask rules are on public transport across the channel? Would I be right in saying that the only country still requiring masks on public transport is Germany?
Thanks

Germany, Spain and Vienna are the only places in Europe which still have any sort of mask mandate.

Spain's mandate covers all forms of public transport, including flights. However, some airlines publicly say they don't enforce the mandate at all - TUI and Jet2 - and others only apply it on flights to Spain but not from Spain - e.g. Finnair. Any sort of mask will do, including a cloth one.

Germany has a federal mandate which requires FFP2 masks on long distance trains (IC/ICE/TGV etc.) and coaches (Flixbus etc.). However there is no mandate on flights, and regional transport (RE/S-Bahn/trams/buses etc.) is a matter for the individual states (Länder). Most have a medical mask mandate, but two have already scrapped theirs (Bayern and Sachsen-Anhalt) and one more (Schleswig-Holstein) has already announced it won't renew its mandate when it expires at the end of the year.

The city region of Vienna (the airport is outside this area) has an FFP2 mandate on public transport within its area, but in practice this doesn't seem to be enforced on long-distance trains (which are only in the area for a very short time anyway).

 

[gabrielhj07]

Germany has a federal mandate which requires FFP2 masks on long distance trains (IC/ICE/TGV etc.) and coaches (Flixbus etc.). However there is no mandate on flights, and regional transport (RE/S-Bahn/trams/buses etc.) is a matter for the individual states (Länder).

What a sensible set of rules

I am glad to see that Portugal has calmed down.

 

[ABB125]

I believe Spain also requires masks. Possibly also Portugal but @Giugiaro can correct me on this

Germany, Spain and Vienna are the only places in Europe which still have any sort of mask mandate.

Spain's mandate covers all forms of public transport, including flights. However, some airlines publicly say they don't enforce the mandate at all - TUI and Jet2 - and others only apply it on flights to Spain but not from Spain - e.g. Finnair. Any sort of mask will do, including a cloth one.

Germany has a federal mandate which requires FFP2 masks on long distance trains (IC/ICE/TGV etc.) and coaches (Flixbus etc.). However there is no mandate on flights, and regional transport (RE/S-Bahn/trams/buses etc.) is a matter for the individual states (Länder). Most have a medical mask mandate, but two have already scrapped theirs (Bayern and Sachsen-Anhalt) and one more (Schleswig-Holstein) has already announced it won't renew its mandate when it expires at the end of the year.

The city region of Vienna (the airport is outside this area) has an FFP2 mandate on public transport within its area, but in practice this doesn't seem to be enforced on long-distance trains (which are only in the area for a very short time anyway).

Thanks very much. Hopefully by mid-January there will have been some more changes!