Covid restrictions abroad: updates & observations

[jumble]

I know - it's as if we are back in 2020 again.

If COVID is now endemic in India and Japan and elsewhere in the world what possible difference will quarantining people from China make!

The Japanese don't seem to understand simple common sense science or it is pure theatre to make people feel more comfortable and nothing to do with medical facts
Look at ANA airlines site that asks that if you cant wear a mask then please refrain from talking as though that somehow stops the virus from spreading

https://www.ana.co.jp/en/jp/topics/coronavirus-travel-information/requests/#mask

 

[island]

Hong Kong has also announced the lifting of inbound quarantine, and travellers can enter with antigen tests rather than PCRs.

Chief executive John Lee was deluded enough to describe the country's policies, which still include mandatory outdoor and indoor mask-wearing, as "very normal".

 

[Simon11]

China Covid: US considers restrictions on Chinese arrivals https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-64107553

In the above article, I loved the following statement…..!

Beijing said coronavirus rules should be brought in on a "scientific" basis.

Really, Really!!! Anyone have a mirror to lend?

 

[duncanp]

China Covid: US considers restrictions on Chinese arrivals https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-64107553

In the above article, I loved the following statement…..!

Beijing said coronavirus rules should be brought in on a "scientific" basis.

Really, Really!!! Anyone have a mirror to lend?

Worth noting the following sentence from the BBC article you refer to.

She also said that the BF7 omicron variant - prevalent in China - was already present in Europe and had failed to become dominant.

In other words, imposing travel restrictions on people from China would do sweet FA to "protect" people in Europe, and likely North America as well.

Won't stop the COVID bedwetters from trying though.

 

[Mag_seven]

Italy now requiring Covid tests for Chinese arrivals:

Italy - once the global epicentre of the virus after it spread from China in late 2019 and 2020 - said it was bringing in mandatory Covid testing for all passengers coming from China.

Health Minister Orazio Schillaci said this was "essential to ensure the surveillance and identification" of any new variants of the virus, and to "protect the Italian population".

Covid in China: US imposes Covid testing for visitors from China

Several other countries have imposed restrictions on travellers from China as Covid cases surge.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[danm14]

China Covid: US considers restrictions on Chinese arrivals https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-64107553

The same group that are considering it now said it was racist and sinophobic to do the same thing three years ago. The Science works in mysterious ways.

 

[nw1]

January 2020, no less. (I distinctly recall being asked on multiple occasions as part of the standard questions whether I had been in China in the last 14 days).


It didn’t even make much difference in January/February 2020 against a far less fit virus (or with the UK’s ridiculous attempts at using the Red List to “keep out” Omicron at the end of last year).


Additional updates, 28/12/2022 10:13am:

India has expanded its testing requirement to include China, Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong and Thailand, as well as requiring random testing from all travellers.

Milan is also testing arrivals from China.

I wonder if this is more down to Modi and Meloni's hard-right politics, more than anything. Even before this I considered these two thoroughly objectionable individuals.

I would make accusations of sinophobia, except India seem to have an "attitude" towards other far-eastern countries, too.

The Philippines’ transport secretary has stated that they are looking at imposing additional measures on China arrivals.

The US is reportedly also weighing additional measures to control potential new variants.

Clearly we are in a time loop. There isn’t a big impact from these measures but it is concerning to see they can be brought back, as well as the bogeyman of “dangerous variants”.

Don't these politicians understand that over-prolonged lockdowns and over-severe restrictions are one of the causes of the economic problems we find ourselves in? Do they not see the huge damage that this has caused? Don't they understand the world has far, far bigger problems than Covid right now?

If these politicians really think we can continue with Covid restrictions forever, they are even more foolish than we thought they were. But I suppose they are rich and well-connected enough to be shielded from the economic problems the rest of their respective countries face.

 

[brad465]

Is this another CCP plot to try and destablise the West yet again by forcing them to restrict freedoms, print money and drive inflation?

 

[Mojo]

Is this another CCP plot to try and destablise the West yet again by forcing them to restrict freedoms, print money and drive inflation?

Surely our political leaders can’t be that stupid to fall for it /again/ can they?

 

[Cdd89]

The US has now confirmed the reimposition of a pre-travel testing requirement.

Calls for the UK to do likewise are now growing. It feels like this could easily spill over into domestic policy.

 

[brad465]

Surely our political leaders can’t be that stupid to fall for it /again/ can they?

Depends on what public opinion is and/or the opinion of lobbyists/donors influencing those in power. That said given some of the stuff Sunak said in the main leadership contest, including racing back from the US to avoid further restrictions late 2021, if he concedes to further measures he'll be looking very stupid, and may face a party rebellion.

 

[350401]

Depends on what public opinion is and/or the opinion of lobbyists/donors influencing those in power. That said given some of the stuff Sunak said in the main leadership contest, including racing back from the US to avoid further restrictions late 2021, if he concedes to further measures he'll be looking very stupid, and may face a party rebellion.

I’m going on holiday to the USA in mid February; what are the odds the USA will shut the border to the U.K. or bring in pre departure testing for U.K. nationals, because of “the science”? Thought we’d left all this cr*p this behind.

 

[matthewjohnson]

My first thought when I saw China were opening up was "great the last bastion of zero covid tyranny has fallen", but no. Seems the West may be preparing to take the baton and run with it again,.including the UK if the media and gullible pissy pant public decree. What the f is going on?!

 

[Citybreak1]

So they are testing arrivals from China my worry is these full restrictions return I have two trips booked to Europe I won’t be going if testing returns?

 

[Class 33]

It's all over the TV news this morning about the surge in cases in China. It's on the BBC Breakfast, Good Morning Britain, Sky News, even GB News. And even more annoyingly on Good Morning Britain, they've announced there is an item coming up about "Should we be wearing masks again"!!!! For goodness sake, NO NO NO we should not be wearing masks again and the vast vast majority of people have moved on from wearing those stupid pointless things! Those nonsense laws were scrapped over 11 months ago now!! Don't try to set the agenda that mandatory masks should be brought back again here in the UK!!!

 

[duncanp]

It's all over the TV news this morning about the surge in cases in China. It's on the BBC Breakfast, Good Morning Britain, Sky News, even GB News. And even more annoyingly on Good Morning Britain, they've announced there is an item coming up about "Should we be wearing masks again"!!!! For goodness sake, NO NO NO we should not be wearing masks again and the vast vast majority of people have moved on from wearing those stupid pointless things! Those nonsense laws were scrapped over 11 months ago now!! Don't try to set the agenda that mandatory masks should be brought back again here in the UK!!!

The increase in cases in China is an "exit wave" for them, given that they have substantially eased their domestic restrictions.

However relatively few Chinese tourists are going to come to Europe and North America at this time of year due to the cold weather.

Therefore the "ripple effect" of the Chinese exit wave should be comparatively small, especially as much of the population has immunity from vaccination and/or prior infection, and the variant that is currently prevalent in China is already present in Europe

In the UK, the government is going to stop publishing daily figures after 6th January, so all the bedwetters will have nothing to justify their fearmongering.

As for masks, I don't think there is any point in wearing them as their protective effect, if any is minimal.

Fortunately I think the (UK) government agrees with this, although I wouldn't put it past the Scottish government to introduce mandatory masks (or "strongly recommend" them) just to be awkward.

However, it was always going to be the case that the locktivists and maskivists would lose no opportunity to keep banging on about their particular fetish, in a desperate attempt to remain relevant when the rest of the world has moved on.

 

[nw1]

So they are testing arrivals from China my worry is these full restrictions return I have two trips booked to Europe I won’t be going if testing returns?

I doubt politicians would dare impose blanket testing from all countries now. I'd imagine it's just paranoia about China.

The anger from the tourist industry of said countries would be immense (remember several continental countries have their ski season for the next couple of months), and even the politicians must realise that over-prolonged Covid restrictions are one of the contributing factors to the current economic crisis. More significantly, I suspect most ordinary people (i.e. voters) do now, and most people are sick to the back teeth of restrictions and pretending that, at the end of 2022, Covid is more serious than the cost-of-living crisis, when it blatantly isn't.

If we'd have acted this way over the Spanish flu 100 years ago, I'd imagine the media would have been constantly going on about "deadly new variants" of the Spanish flu throughout the 1920s.

A really cynical point of view of course is that Covid is a convenient device for politicians to distract people from other things going on, which they are more directly responsible for. For example I wonder how much of the Omicron hysteria a year ago was cooked up by the Boris government in an attempt to distract from Partygate?

 

[danm14]

Calls for the UK to do likewise are now growing. It feels like this could easily spill over into domestic policy.

What concerns me is that I think it would be very easy to get support for restrictions on travel from China, if doing so now were sold as the only way to avoid the reimposition of wider restrictions in future. It's a country that a relatively large proportion of the population have a negative impression of, which relatively few people are ever likely to travel to or know anyone that will. It's the perfect "zero impact" restriction to get the idea of restrictions back on the table. Not only in the UK, but in most of the West.

If that happens, it's very easy for mission creep to set in - whether that's a return of domestic restrictions or an expansion of international travel restrictions.

 

[duncanp]

If that happens, it's very easy for mission creep to set in - whether that's a return of domestic restrictions or an expansion of international travel restrictions.

This is what concerns me - "mission creep".

Once you accept COVID testing before arrival, then it will be quarantine for anyone who tests positive, then it will be masks to "keep everyone safe" and prevent cases from spreading domestically, then it will be social distancing.........blah, blah, blah, blah

Not only that, but once restrictions are imposed, the locktivists and maskivists will jump up and down and say it is too early to release restrictions.

 

[danm14]

Once you accept COVID testing before arrival

In a UK context, I'd be relatively confident that COVID testing before arrival from one country would mean Passenger Locator Forms for arrival from every country (except Ireland).

 

[nw1]

This is what concerns me - "mission creep".

Once you accept COVID testing before arrival, then it will be quarantine for anyone who tests positive, then it will be masks to "keep everyone safe" and prevent cases from spreading domestically, then it will be social distancing.........blah, blah, blah, blah

Not only that, but once restrictions are imposed, the locktivists and maskivists will jump up and down and say it is too early to release restrictions.

Except of course most of the public will no longer be behind it, and I would expect mass protests should they try it on in 2023.

The cost of living crisis is the real crisis now, and I suspect many of us, from across the political spectrum, realise that excessive restrictions have been a contributing factor - and will thus respond negatively to any attempt to bring them back in.

The only motivation in 2023 that I can see for Covid restrictions is to make politicians "look good" and cover up their own mistakes and mismanagement in mis-handling the health service and the economy in general. "It's all Covid's fault, not ours!" And I think most of us have wised up to that, so it probably won't work now.

We've been here before, with those Omicron scares in April and July last year, and monkeypox. Particularly the latter, so much so that some were seriously suggesting the possibility of monkeypox-related travel restrictions over the summer. In fact, nothing ever happened.

 

[duncanp]

Except of course most of the public will no longer be behind it, and I would expect mass protests should they try it on in 2023.

The cost of living crisis is the real crisis now, and I suspect many of us, from across the political spectrum, realise that excessive restrictions have been a contributing factor - and will thus respond negatively to any attempt to bring them back in.

The only motivation in 2023 that I can see for Covid restrictions is to make politicians "look good" and cover up their own mistakes and mismanagement in mis-handling the health service and the economy in general. "It's all Covid's fault, not ours!" And I think most of us have wised up to that, so it probably won't work now.

We've been here before, with those Omicron scares in April and July last year, and monkeypox. People started panicking about restrictions, but nothing happened.

And epidemiologists are saying that imposing border controls will make very little difference, as per this extract from the Daily Mail today.

Britain has 'NO plans' to demand Covid tests from Chinese tourists

Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said the situation was 'under review', hours after the government suggested there were no plans to follow the example of the US.

www.dailymail.co.uk

However, Professor Paul Hunter, an epidemiologist at the University of East Anglia, said border controls generally only worked for diseases that weren't already spreading in the UK.

'Controls imposed on one other country never work because if an infection is going to spread internationally it will spread to multiple countries and bypass unilateral controls,' he said.

Dr Simon Clarke, a microbiologist based at the University of Reading, also doubted whether requiring a Covid test would be worth it.

'I think travel restrictions are only likely to slow down transmission, not stop it completely,' he said.

'The tests aren't 100 per cent accurate, plus people can come via other countries.'

Professor Robert Dingwall, a sociologist at Nottingham Trent University who advised the Government on the pandemic when it began, said: 'It has long been accepted that there is no evidence that border restrictions do any more than delay the spread of a pandemic virus by a very short period.'

There is also the question of whether a negative test is a pre-condition of entry, as in the United States, or whether as in Italy they are just doing post flight surveillance in order to understand whether there are any emerging variants and the impact of the virus on the Italian health system.'

There just might be some merit in the Italian approach, but only for a strictly time limited period, and not as a means of preventing people from travelling.

Of course if you could trust the Chinese government to be telling the truth, and be sure that their data is worth the paper it is printed on, then you wouldn't even need to do the Italian approach.

 

[danm14]

There is also the question of whether a negative test is a pre-condition of entry, as in the United States, or whether as in Italy they are just doing post flight surveillance in order to understand whether there are any emerging variants and the impact of the virus on the Italian health system.'

There just might be some merit in the Italian approach, but only for a strictly time limited period, and not as a means of preventing people from travelling.

I would certainly think that post-arrival testing would put many, many more people off travelling than pre-departure testing.

 

[duncanp]

I would certainly think that post-arrival testing would put many, many more people off travelling than pre-departure testing.

I can see what you mean.

It is easy for someone in an office to make these proposals, but it is a different matter to implement such a proposal on the ground.

You could make post arrival testing voluntary, but who would want to waste time getting tested and waiting for the result after a long flight.

As the article in the Dail Mail says, this testing will only delay the spread of COVID, not stop it completely, and there is the question of whether there is any point in slowing the spread if the majority of the population have a high degree of immunity.

 

[danm14]

You could make post arrival testing voluntary, but who would want to waste time getting tested and waiting for the result after a long flight.

Which would result in the media complaining that only 3% of arrivals are getting their voluntary test, and calls from the usual suspects to make it mandatory.

The idea needs to be shut down entirely rather than appeasing those calling for it, otherwise I fear 2023 will have a lot more in common with 2021 than 2022. Give people an inch, they take a mile.

 

[duncanp]

Which would result in the media complaining that only 3% of arrivals are getting their voluntary test, and calls from the usual suspects to make it mandatory.

The idea needs to be shut down entirely rather than appeasing those calling for it, otherwise I fear 2023 will have a lot more in common with 2021 than 2022. Give people an inch, they take a mile.

I agree with you.

But there is some hope, as countries such as France are saying that there is no point in testing arrivals from China, so there is by no means a uniform approach within the European Union.

 

[brad465]

"When everyone runs towards a cliff, he who runs the other way is mad."

 

[duncanp]

OK, so this is the Daily Express, but they are reporting that the government are saying there is "no significant cause for concern" regarding arrivals in the UK from China at the moment.

Lets just hope that common sense prevails.

Ben Wallace was 'wrong' to say travel rules from China 'under review'

Government sources have questioned the Defence Secretary's claims that the UK is reconsidering rules for flights arriving from China as the country's Covid cases surge.

www.express.co.uk

Wallace has rug pulled from under him as China travel 'review' rubbished by Government​

Government sources have questioned the Defence Secretary's claims that the UK is reconsidering rules for flights arriving from China as the country's Covid cases surge.​

The Government has reportedly pushed back on claims from Ben Wallace that ministers are reconsidering rules for flights arriving in the UK from China.

The Defence Secretary had claimed the travel rules from China to the UK are "under review".

But a source within the Department for Transport has questioned these claims.

Speaking to LBC's Henry Riley, they said there were no such reviews ongoing in the department.

Writing on Twitter, Mr Riley said the source told him the only ongoing reviews were outside the DfT.

He said the only review is the "ongoing monitoring from the UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA)".

The source added that the Defence Secretary was "wrong" to insist there was a coming announcement or statement from the transport ministry.

Officials have not communicated any significant "cause for concern" for arrivals to the UK at present, with Government policy guided by expert input.

 

[adc82140]

The EU have pretty much said "nothing to see here" as well, so Italy is the outlier.

 

[Watershed]

The Italian government is now demanding that all EU countries introduce testing. Their locktivist instincts are once again showing.

Unfortunately I fear this may lead to a repeat of the nonsense of travel restrictions. I thought we were past all that, but perhaps not