Covid restrictions to end on 19th July

[westv]

I am aware that wearing a mask before the vaccination programme actually carried weight but I wonder if given the number of people that have had one or both Covid jabs which offer a very high percentage of protection if mask wearing now carries any weight or if they are of any use .

Personally I don’t think they are given how much protection the vaccine gives I wonder if the goverment gave any thought to that

Didn't they say on one the press conferences that the vaccine reduces transmission by 50%??

 

[johnnychips]

I am just considering what the usually excellent Northern train guard - whoever it is - will say at 0655 on Monday on my 170 train. It is generally something like ‘you must wear a face mask by law unless you have a medical exemption’ and there isn’t an automated announcement. I wonder if it will be ‘we advise you…’ or nothing? On the way home, I sometimes get the Supertram and a very Home Counties voice comes in, after the nice north England voice announces the next stop, with something like …I can’t remember verbatim…’ to prevent Covid the law requires you to wear a mask unless exempt’. Will he still be there?

 

[brad465]

Something that doesn't seem to be getting talked about publicly is that while most remaining restrictions are supposedly ending next week, at the same time a de facto curb is taking effect in the form of schools breaking up for the summer holidays. This will stop a lot of mixing happening in age groups currently recording high covid infection rates, in the same way the second wave started not long after schools returned in September. Then it's just a case of completing double jabs before schools return and those in favour of restrictions will have no excuses left (not that they should have any now).

 

[DustyBin]

Has there been any talk regarding a Stage 5 yet? Or is this the “new normal” they talked about several months ago? I feel like we’re being prepared for another lockdown later in the year and they don’t want us getting a taste for actual normality. Call me cynical but I don’t like where we’re heading. Hopefully I’m wrong but I fear I’m not.

 

[Eyersey468]

Has there been any talk regarding a Stage 5 yet? Or is this the “new normal” they talked about several months ago? I feel like we’re being prepared for another lockdown later in the year and they don’t want us getting a taste for actual normality. Call me cynical but I don’t like where we’re heading. Hopefully I’m wrong but I fear I’m not.

I've not heard anything about a stage 5. I do have concerns though that some people seem to think lockdowns should be the go to thing every time there infection rates rise or every time something threatening comes along and not the once in a lifetime last resort they should be seen as

 

[DustyBin]

I've not heard anything about a stage 5. I do have concerns though that some people seem to think lockdowns should be the go to thing every time there infection rates rise or every time something threatening comes along and not the once in a lifetime last resort they should be seen as

Funnily enough this has just appeared in the DM:

Lethal mix of Covid and respiratory viruses could push NHS to breaking

A report by the Academy of Medical Sciences also warned that the NHS could be crippled by a triple-whammy of Covid, flu and other seasonal viruses.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Just as some of us predicted:

The AMS report, which was commissioned by England's chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance, called for ministers to start treating flu like Covid, saying usual death tolls from the seasonal virus are unacceptable.

I think the genie is well and truly out of the bottle at this point!

 

[Jonny]

Funnily enough this has just appeared in the DM:

Lethal mix of Covid and respiratory viruses could push NHS to breaking

A report by the Academy of Medical Sciences also warned that the NHS could be crippled by a triple-whammy of Covid, flu and other seasonal viruses.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Just as some of us predicted:



I think the genie is well and truly out of the bottle at this point!

Ironic, as 60,000 is a ^normal^ bad year for the flu.

 

[Bayum]

Oh well. It seems as if many of the posters on here are getting their wishes granted; CEVs are being advised to stay home and away from busy places as much as possible snd to reduce interactions with general public, avoid public transport, those unvaccinated etc.

 

[Mojo]

That is not a source for the claim "the majority of the population do not use Public transport whatsoever in the average week", and it is off-topic.

I know that we are in a bit of a bubble on this forum (obviously being about railways and other public transport you’d expect usage to be above average), but it’s quite common knowledge surely that most people don’t use public transport. You can work out the rough proportions from the National Travel Survey, there are also YouGov surveys from 2018 where 39% never travelled by train in last year and 15% used the train once or twice. A Feb 2020 survey found 25% never used the bus and 28% used it “not often at all.”

 

[trebor79]

Has there been any talk regarding a Stage 5 yet? Or is this the “new normal” they talked about several months ago? I feel like we’re being prepared for another lockdown later in the year and they don’t want us getting a taste for actual normality. Call me cynical but I don’t like where we’re heading. Hopefully I’m wrong but I fear I’m not.

Provided Monday goes ahead as planned I'd be quite happy with that as a "new normal". Those of us who are happy to crack on with life can do so, and those who want to continue a neurotic obsession with mask wearing are free to do so. Eventually most people will realise the masks are useless and stop wearing them anyway.

I just have a horrible feeling that the government is going to cave in to the pressure they are being put under by union and certain sections of a the press, despite their "concerns" about eg shop workers being "in the firing line" attempting to "enforce" something "without the weight of the law behind them" being entirely spurious.

 

[nedchester]

I know that we are in a bit of a bubble on this forum (obviously being about railways and other public transport you’d expect usage to be above average), but it’s quite common knowledge surely that most people don’t use public transport. You can work out the rough proportions from the National Travel Survey, there are also YouGov surveys from 2018 where 39% never travelled by train in last year and 15% used the train once or twice. A Feb 2020 survey found 25% never used the bus and 28% used it “not often at all.”

Fear has been hyped up over the past few months (worse in the last week or so) to make people think that the mere removal of the face covering on public transport will cause mass deaths. But actually a relatively small percentage use public transport.

What is causing a rise in infections lies elsewhere like homes, the groups in pubs watching the football and other social settings.

The evidence now is that the best way to protect yourself from this is not from wearing a mask on the train (although you may wish to do so) but to get vaccinated. The vaccines work and even if you do catch Covid post vaccination you don’t get very ill (about 98% of cases)

 

[yorksrob]

Funnily enough this has just appeared in the DM:

Lethal mix of Covid and respiratory viruses could push NHS to breaking

A report by the Academy of Medical Sciences also warned that the NHS could be crippled by a triple-whammy of Covid, flu and other seasonal viruses.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Just as some of us predicted:



I think the genie is well and truly out of the bottle at this point!

I suppose at least they don't appear (from the article) to have the gall to call for more lockdowns, given that the lockdowns have caused these problems.

There are some practical solutions called for, such as vaccination for all the usual viruses and provision of anti-viral drugs which are worth taking forward.

 

[sjpowermac]

Something that doesn't seem to be getting talked about publicly is that while most remaining restrictions are supposedly ending next week, at the same time a de facto curb is taking effect in the form of schools breaking up for the summer holidays.

Why do you mention schools? They are ‘Covid secure’ environments, so how will the school holidays be a ‘de facto’ curb? Do you have a source for your claim?

For the avoidance of doubt, I fully support the ending of the mask mandates, hope that July 19th goes ahead and find the idea of Covid passports to be repugnant. I’m just curious about your thoughts on schools.

 

[nedchester]

Why do you mention schools? They are ‘Covid secure’ environments, so how will the school holidays be a ‘de facto’ curb? Do you have a source for your claim?

For the avoidance of doubt, I fully support the ending of the mask mandates, hope that July 19th goes ahead and find the idea of Covid passports to be repugnant. I’m just curious about your thoughts on schools.

I detect a little bit of sarcasm in your post regarding schools!

 

[Watershed]

Logistically, if nothing is done the face covering rules expire at midnight on Sunday night as respects public transport and Friday night as respects everywhere else.

The non-public transport Regulations will expire at the end of 23 July, i.e. next Friday, not tomorrow - see regulation 10.

 

[Bantamzen]

Funnily enough this has just appeared in the DM:

Lethal mix of Covid and respiratory viruses could push NHS to breaking

A report by the Academy of Medical Sciences also warned that the NHS could be crippled by a triple-whammy of Covid, flu and other seasonal viruses.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Just as some of us predicted:

Yep, this one we saw coming a mile off & a year ago.

"NHS Bosses in blaming everyone & everything else on the 73rd Annual NHS Crisis in a row"....

&

"NHS Bosses warn of terrifying new wave of sniffles & sneezes as a result of new Cold variant of horror, as many as 67 million people at risk in the UK"...

 

[Philip]

I see a lot of references in these forums about the need or wanting to go back to '2019 normal'. Was '2019 normal' really that good? It feels a bit rose-tinted.

Just focusing on rail travel two years ago, this seemed to be made up of unpleasantly overcrowded trains with previously quiet off peak trains becoming more and more overcrowded. Whilst we need the railway to get busier than it currently is, I think I prefer the much less crowded service we currently have compared to the situation two years ago. The need for less services also means track capacity isn't as tight so potentially allowing for a more reliable service.

Away from railway, there is a greater focus on good hygiene now than in 2019 which overall is a good thing I think. And people seem more appreciative of the positive aspects of life now as a result of the lockdowns; for example making more time for leisure activities, visiting places, enjoying nature, going for a walk more frequently etc.

 

[Bantamzen]

I see a lot of references in these forums about the need or wanting to go back to '2019 normal'. Was '2019 normal' really that good? It feels a bit rose-tinted.

Just focusing on rail travel two years ago, this seemed to be made up of unpleasantly overcrowded trains with previously quiet off peak trains becoming more and more overcrowded. Whilst we need the railway to get busier than it currently is, I think I prefer the much less crowded service we currently have compared to the situation two years ago. The need for less services also means track capacity isn't as tight so potentially allowing for a more reliable service.

Away from railway, there is a greater focus on good hygiene now than in 2019 which overall is a good thing I think. And people seem more appreciative of the positive aspects of life now as a result of the lockdowns; for example making more time for leisure activities, visiting places, enjoying nature, going for a walk more frequently etc.

Erm, was 2019 that good? Well it was certainly better than 2020 & 2021 so far, or had you not noticed.

With regard to trains, put simply quiet and empty trains don't make profits. And trains that don't make profits make the owners paying for them unhappy and want to stop them. You may have noticed this with buses, I know we have around my parts as the bus network is a pale imitation of what it was 20-25 years ago. Even when in government ownership and contracted out, trains will still have to make money, especially with all the new shiny ones running around the country. The railway network is not a giant trainset for ministers & enthusiasts to play with, it needs to be financially viable whoever pays for it. Yes some parts of the country need more capacity & better investment, but that won't come from carrying around fresh air.

 

[DustyBin]

Oh well. It seems as if many of the posters on here are getting their wishes granted; CEVs are being advised to stay home and away from busy places as much as possible snd to reduce interactions with general public, avoid public transport, those unvaccinated etc.

Shielding ended on the 1st of April this year and like everybody else CEVs have been asked to take personal responsibility. What’s wrong with that?

The vast majority are in far less danger at this point than at any previous time during the pandemic, and I can’t help but feel they are being used as pawns by those wishing to prolong restrictions. I’ve heard all kinds of emotive nonsense used in reference to CEVs such as “thrown under the bus” and even “condemned to death” which is both inaccurate and completely irresponsible. These people need advice and support, not scaring even more than they have been already.

 

[NorthKent1989]

I see a lot of references in these forums about the need or wanting to go back to '2019 normal'. Was '2019 normal' really that good? It feels a bit rose-tinted.

Just focusing on rail travel two years ago, this seemed to be made up of unpleasantly overcrowded trains with previously quiet off peak trains becoming more and more overcrowded. Whilst we need the railway to get busier than it currently is, I think I prefer the much less crowded service we currently have compared to the situation two years ago. The need for less services also means track capacity isn't as tight so potentially allowing for a more reliable service.

Away from railway, there is a greater focus on good hygiene now than in 2019 which overall is a good thing I think. And people seem more appreciative of the positive aspects of life now as a result of the lockdowns; for example making more time for leisure activities, visiting places, enjoying nature, going for a walk more frequently etc.

In 2019, there were no lockdowns, no restrictions to life, no threat of a two tiered society between vaxxed and unvaxxed people with a draconian Covid passport, no Orwellian advertisements designed to guilt trip, saying “Look Him in the eye and tell him blah blah”, mental health was finally being spoken about only for Covid to take over and suddenly mental health has become stigmatised as being selfish, setting the awareness of such issues back by at least 20 years in just 18 months, no fear-mongering, no suspicion between people as to whether they had a flu or cold or not, normal interactions, no telling children that they’re potential granny killers……I could go on all day, but yes while things in 2019 weren’t perfect they were a darn sight better than the mess we’re in now.

 

[island]

The non-public transport Regulations will expire at the end of 23 July, i.e. next Friday, not tomorrow - see regulation 10.

Yes, that was what I was trying to write. Thank you.

 

[DustyBin]

I see a lot of references in these forums about the need or wanting to go back to '2019 normal'. Was '2019 normal' really that good? It feels a bit rose-tinted.

Just focusing on rail travel two years ago, this seemed to be made up of unpleasantly overcrowded trains with previously quiet off peak trains becoming more and more overcrowded. Whilst we need the railway to get busier than it currently is, I think I prefer the much less crowded service we currently have compared to the situation two years ago. The need for less services also means track capacity isn't as tight so potentially allowing for a more reliable service.

Away from railway, there is a greater focus on good hygiene now than in 2019 which overall is a good thing I think. And people seem more appreciative of the positive aspects of life now as a result of the lockdowns; for example making more time for leisure activities, visiting places, enjoying nature, going for a walk more frequently etc.

If you’ve lost your job, your livelihood and your mental health is in the gutter I suspect those “benefits” provide little comfort.

I’m actually all for good hygiene and was so prior to the pandemic, we do need to be careful though not to over do it. There’s a genuine danger of us either ruining our immune systems or breeding a “super bug”.

 

[duncanp]

Shielding ended in the 1st of April this year and like everybody else CEVs have been asked to take personal responsibility. What’s wrong with that?

The vast majority are in far less danger at this point than at any previous time during the pandemic, and I can’t help but feel they are being used as pawns by those wishing to prolong restrictions. I’ve heard all kinds of emotive nonsense used in reference to CEVs such as “thrown under the bus” and even “condemned to death” which is both inaccurate and completely irresponsible. These people need advice and support, not scaring even more than they have been already.

You have to ask yourself, "how did CEV people manage before COVID?", and go back to something similar.

We didn't lock down society before COVID to protect CEV people, and we shouldn't do so now, if only because long term restrictions on the whole of society in order to protect one group of people will cause resentment against that group of people.

CEV people should be tested regularly for COVID, and have rapid access to medical and other support services if they test positive. (ie. no grovelling with GPs receptionist just to get a "telephone consultation" in three weeks time) They should be given advice about the risk of various settings, and then be allowed to make up their minds whether the risk of doing something is acceptable to them.

 

[notlob.divad]

I see a lot of references in these forums about the need or wanting to go back to '2019 normal'. Was '2019 normal' really that good? It feels a bit rose-tinted.

Just focusing on rail travel two years ago, this seemed to be made up of unpleasantly overcrowded trains with previously quiet off peak trains becoming more and more overcrowded. Whilst we need the railway to get busier than it currently is, I think I prefer the much less crowded service we currently have compared to the situation two years ago. The need for less services also means track capacity isn't as tight so potentially allowing for a more reliable service.

Away from railway, there is a greater focus on good hygiene now than in 2019 which overall is a good thing I think. And people seem more appreciative of the positive aspects of life now as a result of the lockdowns; for example making more time for leisure activities, visiting places, enjoying nature, going for a walk more frequently etc.

I agree wholey with your ideas and sentiments. However as evidenced fro mthis forum and others. Far too many people are all too keen to cram themseves into overcrowded places, swap sweat and saliva with other human beings, get all up in each others faces. Either for 'leisure' or to slave away for the masters who pay their wages.

Too many people and too much of the economy are addicted to burning dead dinosaurs and 'consuming' stuff they don't need and turning it into landfill/carbon dioxide. Any suggestion we do things differently, preserve the long term survival of the human race and every other species on the planet, is met with howls of derision by the addicts, as evidenced on here. Everything is about returning, reverting, regressing. Never about revaluating, reimagining, or realigning.

 

[sjpowermac]

I detect a little bit of sarcasm in your post regarding schools!

Only a little bit of sarcasm?

For the avoidance of doubt, from May last year onwards, I’ve worked full time delivering in person lessons (with the addition of live streams from January onwards). I fully support schools being open.

I made the following, quite gentle, post last August and there were many who lined up to tell me I was talking nonsense. At Christmas I quoted some of their posts back and the response seemed to be that I was picking on people.

I’ve read several mentions on this thread about the role schools have played and I’m actually genuinely curious as to what has brought about the change in position and what the evidence is one way or the other, because I don’t know.

For the avoidance of doubt, I fully support the reopening of schools in the U.K. though I do think the way this is being done will lead to an increase in transmission of the virus. Time will tell...

 

[DustyBin]

I agree wholey with your ideas and sentiments. However as evidenced fro mthis forum and others. Far too many people are all too keen to cram themseves into overcrowded places, swap sweat and saliva with other human beings, get all up in each others faces. Either for 'leisure' or to slave away for the masters who pay their wages.

Too many people and too much of the economy are addicted to burning dead dinosaurs and 'consuming' stuff they don't need and turning it into landfill/carbon dioxide. Any suggestion we do things differently, preserve the long term survival of the human race and every other species on the planet, is met with howls of derision by the addicts, as evidenced on here. Everything is about returning, reverting, regressing. Never about revaluating, reimagining, or realigning.

So is it right in your view to use the pandemic to force through permanent changes for which the government has no democratic mandate? Because that’s what it looks like you’re advocating and is what I suspect is happening. Is this why you’re keen on restrictions continuing?

 

[kristiang85]

I see a lot of references in these forums about the need or wanting to go back to '2019 normal'. Was '2019 normal' really that good? It feels a bit rose-tinted.

Just focusing on rail travel two years ago, this seemed to be made up of unpleasantly overcrowded trains with previously quiet off peak trains becoming more and more overcrowded. Whilst we need the railway to get busier than it currently is, I think I prefer the much less crowded service we currently have compared to the situation two years ago. The need for less services also means track capacity isn't as tight so potentially allowing for a more reliable service.

Away from railway, there is a greater focus on good hygiene now than in 2019 which overall is a good thing I think. And people seem more appreciative of the positive aspects of life now as a result of the lockdowns; for example making more time for leisure activities, visiting places, enjoying nature, going for a walk more frequently etc.

Well empty trains won't last forever; if demand stays low then services will be cut. I'm alrasdy noticing the inconvenience this is causing. Then eventually we will have less services, same crowds, and less jobs....

Same with museums and attractions. Yes it's great now, but with less demand from less tourists, these places will struggle or prices will rise, which doesn't help the poorer in society.

More to the point, in 2019 we could do pretty much what we wanted without being completely nannied and bullied by the state in almost every aspect of our lives once we left the house.

 

[philosopher]

You have to ask yourself, "how did CEV people manage before COVID?", and go back to something similar.

We didn't lock down society before COVID to protect CEV people, and we shouldn't do so now, if only because long term restrictions on the whole of society in order to protect one group of people will cause resentment against that group of people.

CEV people should be tested regularly for COVID, and have rapid access to medical and other support services if they test positive. (ie. no grovelling with GPs receptionist just to get a "telephone consultation" in three weeks time) They should be given advice about the risk of various settings, and then be allowed to make up their minds whether the risk of doing something is acceptable to them.

In some ways, for the CEV, after the 19th July it will be easier to avoid infection of any respiratory illness than it was 18 months ago. Now FFP face masks are widely available, 18 months ago they could only really be found on the internet. Working from home is much more common and accepted whereas before this it was likely their employeer would have insisted on some office working. Finally there has been a proliferation of online grocery delivery services and greater access the entertainment online.

 

[Philip]

In 2019, there were no lockdowns, no restrictions to life, no threat of a two tiered society between vaxxed and unvaxxed people with a draconian Covid passport, no Orwellian advertisements designed to guilt trip, saying “Look Him in the eye and tell him blah blah”, mental health was finally being spoken about only for Covid to take over and suddenly mental health has become stigmatised as being selfish, setting the awareness of such issues back by at least 20 years in just 18 months, no fear-mongering, no suspicion between people as to whether they had a flu or cold or not, normal interactions, no telling children that they’re potential granny killers……I could go on all day, but yes while things in 2019 weren’t perfect they were a darn sight better than the mess we’re in now.

Some of the things you describe were definitely problems two years ago. Mental health awareness has not been set back 20 years and nor is it being stigmatised as selfish, I'd say awareness now is more than it has ever been. Of course there was fear mongering and guilt tripping 2 years ago.

This post is what I'm getting at really, you're looking at life in 2019 through rose-tinted spectacles. Perhaps the pandemic has 'set things off', but all of the problems you mention were there beforehand. The panic buying which went on just before the first lockdown started shows that there was a selfish mindset amongst a lot of people before the pandemic started.

In reference to another post, to suggest we could 'do what we wanted' in 2019 is also false and exaggerating.

 

[Bishopstone]

I see a lot of references in these forums about the need or wanting to go back to '2019 normal'. Was '2019 normal' really that good? It feels a bit rose-tinted.

Just focusing on rail travel two years ago, this seemed to be made up of unpleasantly overcrowded trains with previously quiet off peak trains becoming more and more overcrowded. Whilst we need the railway to get busier than it currently is, I think I prefer the much less crowded service we currently have compared to the situation two years ago.

The railway needs the crowds back in due course, for the sake of viability, but you raise an interesting point.

The mask debate has created a lot of heat, but one of the other Covid mitigants on the railway has been to ‘space out’ passengers by means of reservations; suspending the lower tiers of Advance fares, or self-policing by which those travelling short distances stand in the aisle rather than sit next to a stranger who has, in any case, ‘reserved’ the seat beside them with a bag. And because passenger numbers have been depleted by the lack of commuters, the policy of creating personal space for those who are travelling has worked reasonably well, although there has still been some crowding here and there.

Now, there are plenty of advocates for the end of the mask mandate, but the current popular policy of (virtually) guaranteeing a ‘2’ to oneself on a London-Edinburgh or Devon-Newcastle run will also have to end.

When the long distance TOCs come out and say ‘okay, it’s a seating free-for-all again, sort yourselves out and be prepared to share with a stranger as the new (old) normal’, from which quarters is their support going to come from? Having a ‘2’ for sole occupancy is a Covid restriction just as a mask is, but I’ve not heard any complaints about it!