"Covid rising in England" - let's stop the fear mongering

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yorkie

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Weren't many/most of us vaccinated as babies anyway?
Yes; there is nothing for around 90% of the population to worry about whatsoever.


Must admit I am not sure who is being referred to
It will be Trish Greenhalgh; she has an unhealthy obsession with restricting people.

There are others who act in a similar way, who are less prominent or persistent.

If people like her stopped spouting off, and if the media stopped listening to them, there would be no need for threads like this and everyone could just get on with their lives.
 

Dent

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Ah well the monkeypox didn't really impact much, and this 'wave' of Covid doesn't seem to be bothering most people.

Obviously now it's a good time for polio to make a comeback... :rolleyes:


The UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) says it was probably imported to London by someone who was recently vaccinated overseas with a live form of the virus.

So this is probably just left-over traces or a vaccine, not even anyone being infected. This is scaremongering about nothing.
 

duncanp

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Yes; there is nothing for around 90% of the population to worry about whatsoever.



It will be Trish Greenhalgh; she has an unhealthy obsession with restricting people.

There are others who act in a similar way, who are less prominent or persistent.

If people like her stopped spouting off, and if the media stopped listening to them, there would be no need for threads like this and everyone could just get on with their lives.

If you look at her Twitter account, she is whinging about her flight to Norway being cancelled with one hours notice, being rebooked on another flight 11 hours later, and not having any food vouchers.

Aw diddums.

Not that I am taking any pleasure in her misfortune whatsoever. <D<D

Now all we need is for the airline to cancel all her return flights, so that she is permanently stuck in Norway. :D:D:D:D:D
 

Eyersey468

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Yes; there is nothing for around 90% of the population to worry about whatsoever.



It will be Trish Greenhalgh; she has an unhealthy obsession with restricting people.

There are others who act in a similar way, who are less prominent or persistent.

If people like her stopped spouting off, and if the media stopped listening to them, there would be no need for threads like this and everyone could just get on with their lives.
Thanks @yorkie

If you look at her Twitter account, she is whinging about her flight to Norway being cancelled with one hours notice, being rebooked on another flight 11 hours later, and not having any food vouchers.

Aw diddums.

Not that I am taking any pleasure in her misfortune whatsoever. <D<D

Now all we need is for the airline to cancel all her return flights, so that she is permanently stuck in Norway. :D:D:D:D:D
I've just seen it myself. Aaw diddums :D:D
 

yorkie

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Zerocovidzoe
I thought that was a spoof account?

Back to Trish Greenhalgh (who is disturbingly very real), I see she is retweeting misinformation, such as this:

The immune system is not like a muscle. You don't have to pump it in the gym to keep it strong. Repeated infections with COVID are severe and WEAKEN the immune system. We keep STRONG by NOT GETTING INFECTED WITH COVID.

And also stating anti-vaccine misinformation herself, such as this:
UK's in a mess because a) masking's been abandoned, b) vaccination immunity is waning (+many people had Astra-Zeneca which waned more than most), c) indoor mass events -> mixing.

The truth is very different to what people like her portray
https://www.virology.ws/2021/08/19/are-covid-19-vaccine-boosters-needed/
If a vaccinated individual is reinfected later, the memory B and T cells proliferate and virus-specific antibodies and T cells are produced. The memory response takes several days and therefore infection is not prevented. However virus reproduction in the immunized host is substantially reduced and severe disease does not occur...
..After multiple COVID-19 vaccines received emergency use authorization, studies in several countries were done to determine if immunity prevented infection. When the studies were done shortly after vaccination, antibody and T cell levels were high, and infection was prevented. But as the immune response waned (see figure above), vaccine efficiency against infection declined. This observation was incorrectly interpreted by many to indicate that the vaccines were failing. Largely ignored was the fact that vaccinated individuals were still protected from developing serious COVID-19 disease and death...
Vaccines remain effective where it actually matters; exposure to Coronaviruses does build up natural immunity; repeated exposure does act as a natural booster. We see this already for similar viruses such as OC43 and SARS-COV-2 is not fundamentally different.

Amusingly, people who side with her, or Eric Ding & co tend to use the argument "you aren't a virologist" against anyone who challenges their misinformation.

My response to that is: I am not. I never claim to be. Neither are you. And neither are the experts you listen to. But I do listen to actual virologists and immunologists, who are well respected and not attention seekers.

A big problem with social media is that those who shout the loudest get huge followings of misinformed people.

While a small number of people will get ill, for the vast majority of people there is absolutely nothing to be concerned about and we can live our lives completely normally.

Vaccines are intended to allow us to lead normal lives. It's absurd for restriction activists to attempt to undermine their effectiveness in order to justify their proposed restrictions on others.

I will stop debunking these people when the media stops listening to them; until then, I will continue to do so.
 
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Eyersey468

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I had seen that tweet about the immune system and thought it was a load of claptrap. I am not a virologist or an expert on the immune system nor do I claim to be, surely though exposure to a virus strengthens the immune system?
 

kristiang85

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I genuinely can't believe she isn't being pulled up for misinformation. Is she getting confused with AIDS?

What a dangerous woman she is.
 

yorkie

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I had seen that tweet about the immune system and thought it was a load of claptrap. I am not a virologist or an expert on the immune system nor do I claim to be, surely though exposure to a virus strengthens the immune system?
It does; we need to trust the virologists and immunologists over people like her!
I genuinely can't believe she isn't being pulled up for misinformation. Is she getting confused with AIDS?

What a dangerous woman she is.
Twitter is unlikely to pull people up for misinformation if they are questioning the effectiveness of vaccines and/or our immune systems in order to justify restrictions.

My suspicion (and I say this as someone who is left-leaning but detests the hard left, who I see as dangerous, almost as much as I hate the far-right, who are widely recognised in our society as dangerous, and rightly so) is that Twitter has hard-left sympathisers in high up positions. I could be wrong, but that's how it looks to me.
 

Cdd89

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If you look at her Twitter account, she is whinging about her flight to Norway being cancelled with one hours notice, being rebooked on another flight 11 hours later, and not having any food vouchers.
Very irresponsible of her to be leaving the UK’s borders. We are an island nation and she risks importing a dangerous new variant we don’t yet know about and against which the vaccine isn’t effective; we need to protect our vaccination programme and that means no international travel.

(Can’t believe the above was ‘mainstream’ commentary in the first half of last year, nor do I actually see what has changed to invalidate the above argument; so I view anyone who was making it and is now going abroad as rank hypocrites…).
 

Crossover

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If she is hungry, she can eat plenty of humble pie, as the damage caused by the lockdowns that she advocated, is becoming plain for all to see.
Apologies if you are alluding to it, and I am statin ght eobvious, but it would be even better if the flight cancellation was caused by something Covid related - e.g. staff shortage due to no training due to the Covid restrictions etc
 

Freightmaster

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My suspicion (and I say this as someone who is left-leaning but detests the hard left, who I see as dangerous, almost as much as I hate the far-right, who are widely recognised in our society as dangerous, and rightly so) is that Twitter has hard-left sympathisers in high up positions. I could be wrong, but that's how it looks to me.
I agree - hopefully Elon Musk will have a bit of a clearout if/when his takeover of Twitter goes through.<D





MARK
 

Eyersey468

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Apologies if you are alluding to it, and I am statin ght eobvious, but it would be even better if the flight cancellation was caused by something Covid related - e.g. staff shortage due to no training due to the Covid restrictions etc
That would be a delicious irony :D:D:D
 

nw1

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Very irresponsible of her to be leaving the UK’s borders. We are an island nation and she risks importing a dangerous new variant we don’t yet know about and against which the vaccine isn’t effective; we need to protect our vaccination programme and that means no international travel.

(Can’t believe the above was ‘mainstream’ commentary in the first half of last year, nor do I actually see what has changed to invalidate the above argument; so I view anyone who was making it and is now going abroad as rank hypocrites…).

Hard to believe that authoritarian nonsense about being banned from leaving the UK and being fined £5000 for doing so as late as May 2021 was seen as a proportionate measure. Delta got here anyway despite Johnson and co's futile and misguided attempts to keep it out.

All these measures did during spring 2021, I suspect, was harm the travel industry for no discernible benefit.
 

gabrielhj07

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Hard to believe that authoritarian nonsense about being banned from leaving the UK and being fined £5000 for doing so as late as May 2021 was seen as a proportionate measure. Delta got here anyway despite Johnson and co's posturing.
When was that introduced?
 

nw1

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Thanks. Bizarre that international travel was fine (relatively) in 2020, but made purposefully difficult in 2021.

Yes, indeed. Few restrictions on international travel from July to October 2020, with no mandatory testing at either end in many cases even though Covid was probably more dangerous in this period than during spring 2021 onwards. The May 2021 to Feb 2022 (ish) period was, for whatever reason, much more restrictive. It's a little hard to see quite why it was deemed, on balance, the best thing to do to continue often-hard restrictions into the middle and latter parts of 2021 and I suspect such restrictions did considerably more harm than good.
 

Stephen42

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It does; we need to trust the virologists and immunologists over people like her!

Twitter is unlikely to pull people up for misinformation if they are questioning the effectiveness of vaccines and/or our immune systems in order to justify restrictions.

My suspicion (and I say this as someone who is left-leaning but detests the hard left, who I see as dangerous, almost as much as I hate the far-right, who are widely recognised in our society as dangerous, and rightly so) is that Twitter has hard-left sympathisers in high up positions. I could be wrong, but that's how it looks to me.
Or maybe it's that Twitter are unlikely to label those using reliable sources as misinformation. That tweet quoted a FT journalist reporting a pre-print from the then Public Health England. While immunity against severe disease wanes less than against infection, it's still present and for highly effective vaccines those small drops mean the proportion not effective (1 - Vaccine Effectiveness) sometimes termed "breakthrough" rate can increase considerably. In the paper the breakthrough hospitalisation rate doubled after 20 weeks compared with 10-14 weeks. It's now peer reviewed and published in the New England Journal of Medicine.
Vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic Covid-19 with the delta variant peaked in the early weeks after receipt of the second dose and then decreased by 20 weeks to 44.3% (95% confidence interval [CI], 43.2 to 45.4) with the ChAdOx1-S vaccine and to 66.3% (95% CI, 65.7 to 66.9) with the BNT162b2 vaccine. Waning of vaccine effectiveness was greater in persons 65 years of age or older than in those 40 to 64 years of age. At 20 weeks or more after vaccination, vaccine effectiveness decreased less against both hospitalization, to 80.0% (95% CI, 76.8 to 82.7) with the ChAdOx1-S vaccine and 91.7% (95% CI, 90.2 to 93.0) with the BNT162b2 vaccine, and death, to 84.8% (95% CI, 76.2 to 90.3) and 91.9% (95% CI, 88.5 to 94.3), respectively. Greater waning in vaccine effectiveness against hospitalization was observed in persons 65 years of age or older in a clinically extremely vulnerable group and in persons 40 to 64 years of age with underlying medical conditions than in healthy adults.
 
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Richard Scott

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Well, somebody on this very thread said he was going into work despite having symptoms. That's kind of why i put the question out there....
That depends on symptoms, I get sinus problems which can result in sneezing, runny nose, sore throat and headache, can't stay off work every time that happens otherwise be off half of the year (and yes it is that common) but if felt really rough then obviously wouldn't go in. By some people's reckoning the above are all so called covid symptoms and I shouldn't be in work but I'd soon be out of a job.
 

nw1

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Well, somebody on this very thread said he was going into work despite having symptoms. That's kind of why i put the question out there....

The symptoms described seem pretty mild though.

Should we stay off work from now to eternity if we have a headache or runny nose?

Coming from what (I think) is a similar political standpoint to @yorkie:

It's sensible staying off work with a fever or bad cough; it's fine to voluntarily stay off work with minor cold symptoms (perhaps because you believe, based on past experience, that the effort of work will exacerbate the symptoms and make you feel worse); but guilt-tripping people into not going into work with a headache or runny nose is quite another. We can't live in this guilt-ridden way from now to eternity; it's time to move on. And given that the UK has little or no in the way of actual legal restrictions, I'd say the feelings of guilt encouraged by some if you have minor cold-like symptoms is the number one problem we need to deal with.

That depends on symptoms, I get sinus problems which can result in sneezing, runny nose, sore throat and headache, can't stay off work every time that happens otherwise be off half of the year (and yes it is that common) but if felt really rough then obviously wouldn't go in. By some people's reckoning the above are all so called covid symptoms and I shouldn't be in work but I'd soon be out of a job.

I had what I think was a mild sinus infection at the back end of May. The symptoms (tiredness, blocked nose, "pressure" headaches which were worse when you leant down) were classic sinus so I suspect it was much more likely to have been that than Covid. I did also get pretty bad sinusitis in May 2009 (following a cold) so presumably I am somewhat pre-disposed to it.

(As it happens I was working from home anyway that week so the question did not arise...)
 
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