"Covid rising in England" - let's stop the fear mongering

[yorkie]

There really is no such clear trend. Look at the excess mortality as that's the best gauge, given that what is described as a 'Covid death' is inconsistent to the point of being largely meaningless. Recent stats for Chile being a case in point - high proportion of the population injected, but notable spikes in excess mortality.

Effectiveness of an Inactivated SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine in Chile

Mass vaccination campaigns to prevent coronavirus disease 2019 (Covid-19) are occurring in many countries; estimates of vaccine effectiveness are urgently needed to support decision making. A countrywide mass vaccination campaign with the use of an inactivated ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Our results suggest that the inactivated SARS-CoV-2 vaccine effectively prevented Covid-19, including severe disease and death, a finding that is consistent with results of phase 2 trials of the vaccine...

I agree with your concerns regarding what is termed a "Covid death" but the fact that vaccinations in Chile reduced mortality and the burden on healthcare systems is undeniable.

It's impossible to claim 'it's the vaccine wot dun it' like this. As would happen with any epidemic, immunity builds up in a population over time and viruses evolve to become more infections but causing less severe illness. There is absolutely no reason to think that this isn't the main factor here - if it wasn't, this virus would need to behave in a way completely different to all similar viruses and that's not credible

It is true that immunity builds up over time, but the best way to achieve that is first to vaccinate people and then to expose them to the full virus.

By all means argue with me all you like but if you are opposed to restrictions, any delay in vaccinating people would have resulted in more restrictions (not that I agree with them but that's just what would have happened).

But if they 'die suddenly' it's recorded as the death of an 'unvaccinated person'. Handy, that, for those who want to prove how 'safe' it is.

Are you referring to the deaths in elderly people at a rate that was no higher than expected, after they were vaccinated? If you are referring to something else, feel free to provide a link and quote.

There are some isolated cases of sudden deaths in healthy people due to vaccines but these are tiny in number compared to the lives saved by vaccines. I am unsure how these are recorded but if you have some information on that, feel free to provide a link and quote. But it doesn't change the fact that vaccines did save many many more lives than they may have cut short.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being an 'anti-vaxxer' (specifically as regards this 'vaccine').

If an anti vaxxer is someone who campaigns against vaccines, denies the effectiveness of vaccines (something they share in common with pro-maskers, ironically) and makes false allegations against vaccines, then yes there is.

I have absolutely nothing against vaccine refusers though; that is entirely people's right and I support their right, even if I disagree with their reasons.

GPs just seem to like not seeing any real people if they can possibly avoid it, and want to keep it going forever. The NHS generally seems to want to carry on with the 'siege mentality' of all the pointless theatre.

Indeed and this is appalling. But if we'd not had mass vaccinations, the situation would be even worse as GPs would be using that as an excuse to see people even less than they are.

 

[Eyersey468]

I do agree with you completely, but why the media obsessed by it? You think they move on but seems clear they haven’t and seem content on trying another round!

Cynical: so since Boris is possibly pushed the media are wanting to do it all again? I’m all for freedom of press/media but as I say they need to wind their necks in or will the media be happy putting people on furlough? Media suggest or throws ideas or basic crap stir but walk away from it, it needs stopped.

I agree this obsession by the media over imposing restrictions must stop NOW. I wonder how quickly they would change their tune if another lockdown saw millions lose their jobs which had the knock on effect of their advertising revenue plummet thus bringing them to the brink of bankruptcy. In a way it would be poetic justice if their advertising revenue did plummet as a result of restrictions.

 

[bramling]

March 20th 2023 woud be a good date to close this thread and the COVID forum entirely.

On the third anniversary of the lockdown we can finally stick two fingers up to COVID and tell it to **** off.

I just don’t think that’s going to happen, unfortunately. Just watching Sky News, and they seemed to be foaming with excitement at the idea of the NHS being overwhelmed and how masks on public transport might be a solution to that.

 

[yorkie]

We could be a week away from the peak, maybe a little more or less either way.

Those who are keen to change our way of life and normalise masks are absolutely desperate to impose them in time for the peak, so they can credit a reduction in cases to the mass wearing of flimsy, loose fitting, ineffective masks.

We must not let them and we will not let them.

This is a divisive subject; the media know it is divisive so are keen for the debate to be had, to generate clicks/sales/reads/views.

 

[duffers2324]

Best thing to do is just STOP watching the damn news, media and TV, turn it off and get on with our lives, i know its hard to get away from it completely but it would give those in those industries and positions something to think about!

 

[nw1]

Getting a face to face appointment with my local GP is still near impossible. Also, not doing the phone thing anymore. They talk to you like you're taking up their free time. He was borderline rude to me last time.

This really needs to be questioned. Someone really ought to be giving the NHS a good grilling and asking why so many surgeries have such an "attitude" towards patients.

Is it because:

a) they're still paranoid about Covid and want to turn people away, or
b) the NHS has been starved of funds by the government and can no longer afford to provide GP services or
c) the surgeries find patients a pain in the backside and cannot be bothered to deal with medical issues they see as "unimportant"?

If a) or c) then the surgeries need to be the target of firm and harsh words to get their act together. If b), the same applies, but with the government, not the surgeries, as the target.

Whatever, it's utterly unacceptable and needs to be sorted out. "Save the NHS" as the government said? I don't see it.

I see the COVID Bedwetter Daily Mail is at it again.

I think you can safely ignore this one.

Firstly, the current politicial situation means that Boris Johnson isn't going to make any major policy decisions during his remaining time in office, and none of the Conservative leadership candidates will get very far if they advocate new COVID restrictions.

Secondly, any new measures take several weeks to have any effect, by which time cases will start to decline naturally, as they have done in all previous wanes during this pandemic. (Cases are already plateauing)

So if the government was going to introduce any new measures, it would have done so by now.

Thirdly - I think people have had enough of COVID restrictions, and are far more concerned about the cost of living crisis. If there were any new COVID restrictions, they would be ignored by a large proportion of the population.

Covid curbs could come back if virus impacts backlog, says minister

Health minister Lord Kamall said if 'it gets to a point where it is affecting the backlog then clearly measures may well have to be introduced'. It comes as England's daily Covid admissions near 2,000.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The opposition politicians in the Lords are not making themselves look good here, sorry to say.

"Do the right thing and self isolate?" Time to stop this kind of attitude. People didn't self isolate in 1999, in 1968, in 1958. Why now, in 2022, with Covid likely less serious than the 1999 flu, let alone 1968?

Please, let's not have a return to this testing on minor symptoms/isolation regime again.

A very sharp hint to Labour and Lib Dem people who want to see the reintroduction of this sort of lifestyle. It won't get you votes. We'll have an election within 23 months max and many of us desperately want to see an end to the Tories (people like Truss are little better than Johnson). By continuing hardline attitudes to Covid, you're going to let the Tories in with a large majority again.

Labour and the Lib Dems really need to turn their back on Covid and instead campaign positively on providing a real progressive alternative to the Tories. If they want to point-score against the Tories that is absolutely fine of course, but there are plenty of other ways of doing it: criticising Brexit, the Rwanda nonsense, the Policing Bill and the Elections Bill, for starters.

 

[kez19]

I just don’t think that’s going to happen, unfortunately. Just watching Sky News, and they seemed to be foaming with excitement at the idea of the NHS being overwhelmed and how masks on public transport might be a solution to that.

Turn this around, let them in the TV studios wear masks, they seem happy for others to do it or push it, the media are getting away with so much by doing very little, yet they seem to be governing us (it may come across as tinfoil hat here but putting it aside look closely at how the media is acting does it not raise questions?)

I agree this obsession by the media over imposing restrictions must stop NOW. I wonder how quickly they would change their tune if another lockdown saw millions lose their jobs which had the knock on effect of their advertising revenue plummet thus bringing them to the brink of bankruptcy. In a way it would be poetic justice if their advertising revenue did plummet as a result of restrictions.

BBC has the licence fee, Sky has ads and subscribers ITV and the rest has advertisers too (OK if we throw their own streaming service similar to Sky), but yes they all need to take a hit but something does have to give.

 

[yorkie]

I see media outlets are desperately trying to refer to Zoe app estimates as "cases" and this narrative is being pushed by Twitter.

https://twitter.com/i/events/1546859347715694595

Covid cases have hit a new record in the UK with daily symptomatic infections soaring to 351,546, according to new figures from the ZOE Covid study app.

They don't make it clear that this is an estimate; to use the term "cases" in this manner is highly misleading.

UK infections are expected to rise even higher, to nearly 400,000 a day next week, before starting to drop down. Cases are starting to plateau in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland but are still rising in England

Scotland and NI have been leading the way so obviously they are likely to peak earlier! This means that the plateau in England can't be too far off; maybe another week or so? Of course they are going to word this in a way that sounds more concerning.

What has driven the rise in Covid cases? The rise has been driven by the surge in the new Omicron variants, BA.4 and BA.5. But scientists say public and government behaviour has also played a key role, with many behaving as if the pandemic was in the past.

This is a deliberately proactive statement. The reality is that different scientists will give different opinions. The only way to indisputably end the "pandemic" stage is to reach endemic equilibrium and that means building up more immunity. But the way this is worded is suggesting that if we behaved more cautiously the pandemic would somehow be over quicker. The reality is actually the opposite of that.

Looking at the twitter profile of Stephen Griffin, the guy is absolutely deluded. Why quote him and not one of the world's leading virologists? Of course they wanted to quote someone who is part of the hard-left narrative.

How can people protect themselves? “High quality well-fitted facemasks particularly in crowded spaces, physical distancing, better ventilation and vaccination are effective,” a
@warwickuni
virologist said. Isolation is also key to keeping cases down, Professor Spector said.

This is nonsense; everyone is going to be exposed to Sars-CoV-2 and the vast majority of infections are either asymptomatic or very mild, so the idea that you can get infected people to isolate to delay the onset of endemic equilibrium is absurd.

Tim Spector has lost the plot in recent months after being fairly reasonable earlier in the pandemic.

 

[DustyBin]

I see media outlets are desperately trying to refer to Zoe app estimates as "cases" and this narrative is being pushed by Twitter.

https://twitter.com/i/events/1546859347715694595

They don't make it clear that this is an estimate; to use the term "cases" in this manner is highly misleading.

Scotland and NI have been leading the way so obviously they are likely to peak earlier! This means that the plateau in England can't be too far off; maybe another week or so? Of course they are going to word this in a way that sounds more concerning.

This is a deliberately proactive statement. The reality is that different scientists will give different opinions. The only way to indisputably end the "pandemic" stage is to reach endemic equilibrium and that means building up more immunity. But the way this is worded is suggesting that if we behaved more cautiously the pandemic would somehow be over quicker. The reality is actually the opposite of that.

Looking at the twitter profile of Stephen Griffin, the guy is absolutely deluded. Why quote him and not one of the world's leading virologists? Of course they wanted to quote someone who is part of the hard-left narrative.

This is nonsense; everyone is going to be exposed to Sars-CoV-2 and the vast majority of infections are either asymptomatic or very mild, so the idea that you can get infected people to isolate to delay the onset of endemic equilibrium is absurd.

Tim Spector has lost the plot in recent months after being fairly reasonable earlier in the pandemic.

Ulterior motives aside, this never ending (and it will be!) crusade against covid is an academic exercise for these “experts” who are completely detached from reality. It appears to be their entire raison d'etre and they’ll pursue it at any cost.

Meanwhile, normal people are quite happy to get on with their lives, and are willing to risk the occasional mild illness in order to do so.

The scaremongering really is pathetic at this stage.

 

[duncanp]

The scaremongering really is pathetic at this stage.

And now we have "...subvariant BA2.75...."

No, it isn't one of the flights that British Airways have cancelled at Heathrow, but a supposedly new COVID variant that some so called "experts" have dreamed up in order to scare us all.

Fortunately I don't think anyone, in government at least, is listening to this utter load of bovine excrement.

New Covid mutant raises concerns as calls for restrictions gain motion

A NEW VARIANT of COVID-19, recently detected in the UK, is raising concerns among the scientific community, amid fresh calls for restrictions to curb rising case numbers.

www.express.co.uk

New coronavirus mutant raises concerns as fresh calls for restrictions gain motion in UK​

A NEW VARIANT of COVID-19, recently detected in the UK, is raising concerns among the scientific community, amid fresh calls for restrictions to curb rising case numbers.​

Experts fear the new variant — called BA.2.75 — may have the ability to spread rapidly and circumvent immunity acquired from existing vaccines and previous COVID-19 infection. At present, it remains unclear whether BA.2.75 causes more serious disease than other omicron variants such as BA.5, which is currently prominent across the globe. BA.2.75 was first identified in India, but has since been detected in ten other countries, including the UK, Australia, Canada, Germany and the United States.

Virologist Dr Matthew Binnicker of the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, said: “It’s still really early on for us to draw too many conclusions.

"But it does look like — especially in India — the rates of transmission are showing kind of that exponential increase.”

In fact, according to researchers based in New Delhi, BA.2.75, has been spotted in several distant states In India, and appears to be spreading faster there than other variants.

Whether the new variant will succeed in outcompeting and replacing BA.5, Dr Binnicker added, will remain to be seen.

However, he explained, the virus has a large number of mutations that distinguish it from previous omicron variants — with some in areas relating to the spike protein that Covid uses to bind onto cells that could make the virus more effective.

Infectious disease specialist Shishi Luo works for Helix, a firm that specialises in providing viral sequencing information to the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention in the US.

According to Dr Luo, the fact that BA.2.75 has been spotted in many parts of the world — including those with relatively low levels of viral surveillance — is “an early indication it is spreading”.

Furthermore, virologist Dr Gagandeep Kang of the Christian Medical College in Vellore, Tamil Nadu, India noted, the growing concern over BA.2.75 highlights the need to sustain both genetic analysis of the virus and patient monitoring.

She said: “It is important that surveillance isn’t a start-stop strategy.”

Surveillance is not the only public health measure that is receiving calls for increased efforts.

In the UK, official data has indicated that 2.7 million people had COVID-19 last week — an increase of 18 percent over the week before.

In the House of Lords, health minister Lord Kamall told peers that if rising cases placed too much strain on the already-backlogged health system, “clearly measures may well have to be introduced.”

Several experts have called for the return of free lateral flow tests, face coverings and a return to outdoor mixing.

Virologist Steve Griffin said: “We are experiencing plateaus of infection between waves that are far higher than we ever had before last summer, simply due to the lack of mitigations in place.

“Leaving vaccines to deal with the pandemic alone simply isn’t working and we need to do more over the longer term to build resilience against such a high level of infections.

“This does not mean lockdowns but learning to proactively live with the virus, rather than passively ignoring and dismissing this infection, which remains a public health concern regardless of some wishes or personal choices.”

 

[yorkie]

The headline is wrong; there is no such thing as a "variant of COVID-19". Now, some people may accuse me of being pedantic. Fine; that's their prerogative. But to me that is indicative of a misleading article, and the article certainly lives up to that.

I see they are also quoting Steve Griffin, who is spreading what appears to be denying the effectiveness of vaccines in order to justify restrictions:

“Leaving vaccines to deal with the pandemic alone simply isn’t working and we need to do more over the longer term to build resilience against such a high level of infections.

Technically he is correct in that we need FULL exposure to the WHOLE virus to build "resilience" (immunity); of course that isn't what he has in mind!

People like him are downright dangerous attention seekers; the media should stop giving him the attention he and his ilk craves.

 

[duncanp]

The headline is wrong; there is no such thing as a "variant of COVID-19". Now, some people may accuse me of being pedantic. Fine; that's their prerogative. But to me that is indicative of a misleading article, and the article certainly lives up to that.

I see they are also quoting Steve Griffin, who is spreading what appears to be denying the effectiveness of vaccines in order to justify restrictions:


Technically he is correct in that we need FULL exposure to the WHOLE virus to build "resilience" (immunity); of course that isn't what he has in mind!

People like him are downright dangerous attention seekers; the media should stop giving him the attention he and his ilk craves.

Desperate locktvists are slowly realising that no-one is listening to them, or giving a flying **** about their opinions.

When was the last time anyone heard from Professor Pantsdown?

 

[Richard Scott]

And now we have "...subvariant BA2.75...."

No, it isn't one of the flights that British Airways have cancelled at Heathrow, but a supposedly new COVID variant that some so called "experts" have dreamed up in order to scare us all.

Fortunately I don't think anyone, in government at least, is listening to this utter load of bovine excrement.

New Covid mutant raises concerns as calls for restrictions gain motion

A NEW VARIANT of COVID-19, recently detected in the UK, is raising concerns among the scientific community, amid fresh calls for restrictions to curb rising case numbers.

www.express.co.uk

Doubt majority of population care either. Most of us have moved on, media still plugging away at this in hope we'll take an interest. Unfortunately for the media, we're not interested.

 

[yorksrob]

Outdoor mixing ?

No chance. The country can't afford to shut businesses down and the population won't stand for it.

 

[Mag_seven]

Outdoor mixing ?

No chance. The country can't afford to shut businesses down and the population won't stand for it.

Academics like him don't live in the real word and it shows.

 

[Mikw]

Tight-fitting FFP2/3 respirator masks are effective if they are worn/handled/stored correctly and regularly replaced. This gets very expensive. If someone does not live with anyone else, never eats with anyone else, etc they may theoretically be able to avoid exposure to viruses by wearing such masks. But that would not be a normal life.

If someone wears such masks in certain settings, then they are really just delaying an inevitable infection. What's the purpose? to delay the onset of endemic equilibrium?


Obsessing over constantly cleaning hands can be a bad idea.


But it won't stop people being exposed to pathogens; we are all going to be exposed to Sars-CoV-2 multiple times in our lifetimes.

What you propose may delay some infections but will not prevent infections.


If the NHS can't cope then it can't cope; we are not locking down EVER again. No-one is going to be able to force anyone else to stay at home. We can rule that out right now. Many of us would not comply.


Edit: I see what you were referring to now and I would say that anyone who uses the term "clotshots" doesn't have a credible argument.

I didn't totally comply myself.

However, knowing the party we have now, they'll not hesitate to issue some farcical fines. None of us want that of course.

I noticed that too the media asking the PM candidates too, but as I say are the media going to help you or I if they wanted another lockdown (since they keep bringing it up)? Short answer is no but they’ll fall over themselves to make a story out of it once more, the media seem to be creating the news than actually reporting the news - which is it? (not at you)

I’ve never been so much cynical about the UK medias behaviour since COVID but this is pushing it too far.

I actually work in the media and nobody i know actually WANTS another lockdown.

But it's not a bad question to ask the prospective PM's. A lot of them are going for the ERG support and they famously dismiss experts and forecasts.

So it's a case of "Are you guided by logic or dogma". And/or "We know how damaging lockdowns can be to the economy, would you go that far as your predessor did?".

It's this elections "Trident" question really.

The only thing that will cause restriction is the capacity of the NHS, which after ten years of austerity, and the loss of a lot of immigrant labour, is not the strongest it's ever been to put it mildly.

Well, it's the only thing unless a total nutter gets into power.....

 

[bramling]

Desperate locktvists are slowly realising that no-one is listening to them, or giving a flying **** about their opinions.

When was the last time anyone heard from Professor Pantsdown?

People aren’t interested at all, that’s abundantly clear from their behaviour. That’s not to say that a “protect the NHS” narrative couldn’t be embarked upon again, of course, which I suspect would be effective with some people.

 

[Enthusiast]

I notice the NHS was awarded its George Cross today. I also noticed a week or so back that it was announced that NHS waiting lists have hit something like 6.5 million. If I was the NHS I'd return my medal.

 

[Mikw]

Also, all ten Ambulance services are currently on the highest level of alert, down to Covid staff shortages and the heatwave.

I just want to point this out as people seem to think that lockdowns are just done because somebody wants them to be.

Don't think anybody actually wants it to happen, but the NHS capacity issues are the only reason why one would happen. If anyone is interested there's a phone in on LBC about it right now.

 

[yorkie]

If one was imposed, many people would not comply. You can use whatever excuses or justification you want but you cannot change that fundamental fact.

 

[Eyersey468]

I didn't totally comply myself.

However, knowing the party we have now, they'll not hesitate to issue some farcical fines. None of us want that of course.

I actually work in the media and nobody i know actually WANTS another lockdown.

But it's not a bad question to ask the prospective PM's. A lot of them are going for the ERG support and they famously dismiss experts and forecasts.

So it's a case of "Are you guided by logic or dogma". And/or "We know how damaging lockdowns can be to the economy, would you go that far as your predessor did?".

It's this elections "Trident" question really.

The only thing that will cause restriction is the capacity of the NHS, which after ten years of austerity, and the loss of a lot of immigrant labour, is not the strongest it's ever been to put it mildly.

Well, it's the only thing unless a total nutter gets into power.....

May I ask then why are the media reporting things in such a way as to imply they want another lockdown or restrictions?

 

[Gareth]

Ah, those geographically huge ambulance services. They're also not fit for purpose. My father-in-law took a funny turn earlier this year while we were eating out in central Liverpool. Ambulance took over two hours to show up. We may as well have carried him the hospital, it only being down the road. It looked bad for a while too before he started showing some improvement. Basically, if he was going to die, he'd have died.

An elderly relative had a fall a few days ago too. A two hour wait for her also.

 

[yorkie]

May I ask then why are the media reporting things in such a way as to imply they want another lockdown or restrictions?

They are reporting things in a way that generates attention for their articles.

Ah, those geographically huge ambulance services. They're also not fit for purpose. My father-in-law took a funny turn earlier this year while we were eating out in central Liverpool. Ambulance took over two hours to show up. We may as well have carried him the hospital, it only being down the road. It looked bad for a while too before he started showing some improvement. Basically, if he was going to die, he'd have died.

An elderly relative had a fall a few days ago too. A two hour wait for her also.

Some people will no doubt argue that if we restricted our freedoms, the wait would be reduced. It's an absurd argument but there are some crazy people out there.

 

[wilbers]

Oddly enough I saw someone today who I hadn't seen for a month and they had been ill with a virus - initially assumed it was Covid until lateral-flow tests proved otherwise. Worse than Covid as they had a sore throat for best part of 3 weeks. Rang someone else up, and almost same happened to them, apart from so far they have only had it 5 days, and they also knew of 2 other people with it. Maybe thats the sort of thing that points to us being post-Covid, getting something and thinking I'd rather have had Covid [again].

 

[102 fan]

Also, all ten Ambulance services are currently on the highest level of alert, down to Covid staff shortages and the heatwave.

I just want to point this out as people seem to think that lockdowns are just done because somebody wants them to be.

Don't think anybody actually wants it to happen, but the NHS capacity issues are the only reason why one would happen. If anyone is interested there's a phone in on LBC about it right now.

Do covid staff shortages exist in the Private sector? It's just I've never heard of supermarkets closing or having reduced services due to Covid. It might be just a local thing though, but my closest Tescos and Sainsbury's had no problems during the pandemic. The only problem was the queuing due limited numbers allowed inside, but once in, there weren't many empty shelves or staff that I could see.

 

[kez19]

I didn't totally comply myself.

However, knowing the party we have now, they'll not hesitate to issue some farcical fines. None of us want that of course.

I actually work in the media and nobody i know actually WANTS another lockdown.

But it's not a bad question to ask the prospective PM's. A lot of them are going for the ERG support and they famously dismiss experts and forecasts.

So it's a case of "Are you guided by logic or dogma". And/or "We know how damaging lockdowns can be to the economy, would you go that far as your predessor did?".

It's this elections "Trident" question really.

The only thing that will cause restriction is the capacity of the NHS, which after ten years of austerity, and the loss of a lot of immigrant labour, is not the strongest it's ever been to put it mildly.

Well, it's the only thing unless a total nutter gets into power.....

So if they say that nobody wants another lockdown then in my mind why encourage it? As pointed back with Boris last press conference wasn’t it Robert Peston badgering on about more restrictions or lockdown? (If this wasn’t as much as weekly question?). The lockdown questioning has only begun within the last month or so, I’m sure it was here in Scotland it got asked before England but in my mind it seems media are more than happy for it to happen again (even if you say they don’t, not personal here but it’s the vibe I get from the media in general).

May I ask then why are the media reporting things in such a way as to imply they want another lockdown or restrictions?

I’d throw it another way if media are happy for this to happy then let them pay peoples salary etc similar to furlough, see how long it lasts!

BBC could let people not pay the licence fee for a year or how about Sky giving their customers free subscriptions? Let’s turn the tables… media pay the public or help with the government(s).

 

[Bantamzen]

I didn't totally comply myself.

However, knowing the party we have now, they'll not hesitate to issue some farcical fines. None of us want that of course.

I actually work in the media and nobody i know actually WANTS another lockdown.

Yet the media have been feeding off covid-phobia for the last two and a half years. Come on now, you can't tell me the media hasn't been using covid for clickbait because its blindingly obvious they have.

But it's not a bad question to ask the prospective PM's. A lot of them are going for the ERG support and they famously dismiss experts and forecasts.

You do know that the experts & forecasts that are often touted by your industry are not the only ones right?

So it's a case of "Are you guided by logic or dogma". And/or "We know how damaging lockdowns can be to the economy, would you go that far as your predessor did?".

It's this elections "Trident" question really.

Well if you want to see the effects of lockdowns on a country's economy, New Zealand might be a good place to start.

The only thing that will cause restriction is the capacity of the NHS, which after ten years of austerity, and the loss of a lot of immigrant labour, is not the strongest it's ever been to put it mildly.

As I have said before, the NHS has stumbled from crisis to crisis for decades. Its bad management & poor funding should never be an excuse to cause restrictions.

Also, all ten Ambulance services are currently on the highest level of alert, down to Covid staff shortages and the heatwave.

I just want to point this out as people seem to think that lockdowns are just done because somebody wants them to be.

Don't think anybody actually wants it to happen, but the NHS capacity issues are the only reason why one would happen. If anyone is interested there's a phone in on LBC about it right now.

Again, they are not on high alert because of covid or the heat. They are on high alert because they are badly managed & underfunded. Maybe as someone on the inside you might like to consider starting a drive to have the media go after the real problem?

 

[DelayRepay]

Do covid staff shortages exist in the Private sector? It's just I've never heard of supermarkets closing or having reduced services due to Covid. It might be just a local thing though, but my closest Tescos and Sainsbury's had no problems during the pandemic. The only problem was the queuing due limited numbers allowed inside, but once in, there weren't many empty shelves or staff that I could see.

The company I work for (a bank) did have staffing problems during the period when close contacts were required to isolate. Basically it meant if someone in the branch caught Covid, the branch had to close due to most of the staff having to isolate, even if not actually ill themselves. As the rules changed to reduce isolation periods/requirements, things became a lot easier.

But, we never closed our doors completely. We did our best to keep the busiest branches open, and tried to make sure each town had at least one open branch.

As I have said before, the NHS has stumbled from crisis to crisis for decades. Its bad management & poor funding should never be an excuse to cause restrictions.

Again, they are not on high alert because of covid or the heat. They are on high alert because they are badly managed & underfunded. Maybe as someone on the inside you might like to consider starting a drive to have the media go after the real problem?

This is true. Around here, the ambulance service was struggling to respond to calls before 2020, with regular reports in the press of people waiting hours for an ambulance (including cases where the patient sadly passed away while waiting). It was often reported that this was caused by ambulances waiting for hours to hand their patients over to the hospital staff. Which was caused by a backlog of patients in A&E waiting for a bed to become available on a ward. Which was caused by delays in discharging patients, which was caused by a lack of social care provision. The whole system is broken, and was broken before the world had ever heard of Covid-19.

 

[Bantamzen]

This is true. Around here, the ambulance service was struggling to respond to calls before 2020, with regular reports in the press of people waiting hours for an ambulance (including cases where the patient sadly passed away while waiting). It was often reported that this was caused by ambulances waiting for hours to hand their patients over to the hospital staff. Which was caused by a backlog of patients in A&E waiting for a bed to become available on a ward. Which was caused by delays in discharging patients, which was caused by a lack of social care provision. The whole system is broken, and was broken before the world had ever heard of Covid-19.

Indeed, the system has been broken for the longest time. Unfortunately the more people cling to the fallacy that covid is the reason the NHS is in a mess, the more NHS managers will hide behind this excuse. Its time for people, and the media to wake up and smell the coffee. The NHS needs sweeping reforms, starting with funding and the management.

 

[nw1]

Tim Spector has lost the plot in recent months after being fairly reasonable earlier in the pandemic.

As a professor, i am amazed that Spector thinks that isolation is not an over-reaction given how mild the illness currently is for the vast majority of people.

Would Professor Spector have recommended self-isolation during the 1999 flu? If not, why not?

As for criticising public behaviour, would they prefer we all stayed at home and trashed the economy? What was appropriate in 2020 isn't appropriate in 2022.

Do they not realise the world is in a severe economic crisis caused partly by Putin's invasion of Ukraine but partly also by the after-effects of lockdown?