Crewe/Stoke/Stafford incident Saturday 08/04/23

[Higginsafcb]

Just wondering what caused the chaos last night. Nothing from Derby to Stoke, nothing north of Stafford up WCML to Crewe or to Stoke.

 

[_toommm_]

Looks like unfortunately someone was hit by a train. I’m surmising this was the affected train:

Realtime Trains | 1M14 1446 Carlisle to Milton Keynes Central | 08/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 1M14 1446 departure from Carlisle to Milton Keynes Central on 08/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Your UK Train Journey Planner - National Rail Enquiries

The official UK train Journey Planner, with information on Season tickets, Discount fares, Special offers, Timetables, Live departure boards and Travel tools.

m.nationalrail.co.uk

Incident created: 08/04/2023 17:37

End date: 09/04/2023

Route affected



Avanti West Coast between Milton Keynes Central and Manchester Piccadilly / Liverpool Lime Street / Preston / Carlisle

CrossCountry between Bournemouth / Bristol Temple Meads / Oxford / Birmingham New Street and Manchester Piccadilly

East Midlands Railway between Newark Castle / Nottingham / Derby and Crewe

London Northwestern Railway between Birmingham New Street and Crewe

Northern between Stoke-on-Trent and Manchester Piccadilly



Train operator affected

East Midlands Railway

Avanti West Coast

Northern

CrossCountry

Description



Disruption following the emergency services dealing with an incident between Stoke-on-Trent and Crewe / Macclesfield has now ended.

 

[Higginsafcb]

The rumour was person hit between Stoke & Macclesfield.
What I found odd was why this stopped everything on the wcml north of Stafford towards Crewe and Derby to Stoke.
Why would multiple lines be affected?

 

[Rail Ranger]

I've heard that the fatality was at Longport. Crewe-Norton Bridge appeared to be closed all day for planned engineering work..

 

[Higginsafcb]

I've heard that the fatality was at Longport. Crewe-Norton Bridge appeared to be closed all day for planned engineering work..

That makes a little more sense..

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I've heard that the fatality was at Longport. Crewe-Norton Bridge appeared to be closed all day for planned engineering work..

Yes it was in that area.

Wasn't clear who hit the person, several trains passed the sight prior to 1M14 as they didn't believe they'd seen a body as such.

As the WCML was shut, all traffic was going via Stoke so it essentially shut the network down for a few hours.

The only reason LNR Crewe-Liverpool still ran was due to it being a shuttle service (no through running to New St) and spare train crew at Crewe.

 

[40fan]

What puzzles me is why EMR trains were turned at Uttoxeter instead of running trough to Stoke, and why LNR trains did not run from New Street to Stoke.

 

[The Planner]

What puzzles me is why EMR trains were turned at Uttoxeter instead of running trough to Stoke, and why LNR trains did not run from New Street to Stoke.

Clutters up Stoke with terminating trains, its not the best place to turn trains.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

What puzzles me is why EMR trains were turned at Uttoxeter instead of running trough to Stoke, and why LNR trains did not run from New Street to Stoke.

That was due to signalling issues, not related to this incident

 

[sot]

Seemed like the perfect storm with everything compounding. Southern WCML out of action, Reading routing for London via XC not the best, Chilterns falling over, Norton bridge engineering and the signalling issues at Uttoxeter/Caverswall. If there ever was a pinch point it would be Stoke and the vicinity.

I'm not sure why but Longport seems to be very commonly reported for this, is there an issue with security or safety at the station? I recall speaking with an Avanti staff member who said Kidsgrove is terrible in this regard as there is a dark corridor perpendicular to the track where people can just run out from.

When I see these, I always think do websites such as RTT, traksy, et al contribute in any way by giving plenty of intermediate timings and signalling info?

In a wholly respectful manner I wonder if I'm thinking way too much, and it is a situation of whatever train comes first.

With regards this case there was a service to Crewe before the stated one above timing fine to Kidsgrove then halted for a while, however maybe there were issues blocking the junction.

Also brings up the topic of dualling that Alsager line if they wish to keep using the north staffs line as diversions for services with Crewe to Stafford legs.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Seemed like the perfect storm with everything compounding. Southern WCML out of action, Reading routing for London via XC not the best, Chilterns falling over, Norton bridge engineering and the signalling issues at Uttoxeter/Caverswall. If there ever was a pinch point it would be SOT.

I'm not sure why but Longport seems to be very commonly reported for this, is there an issue with security or safety at the station? I recall speaking with an Avanti staff member who said KDG is terrible in this regard as there is a dark corridor perpendicular to the track where people can just run out from.

When I see these, I always think do websites such as RTT, traksy, et al contribute in any way by giving plenty of intermediate timings and signalling info?

In a wholly respectful manner I wonder if I'm thinking way too much, and it is a situation of whatever train comes first.

With regards this case there was a service to CRE before the stated one above timing fine to KDG then halted at KDG for a while, however maybe there were issues blocking the junction.

Also brings up the topic of dualling that Alsager line if they wish to keep using the north staffs line as diversions for services with CRE-STA legs.

With regards the LNR train, it was stopped at Kidsgrove for train crew to visually inspect the train for bodily fluids or remains as the Avanti reported the remains but hadn't in fact struck the person.

 

[sot]

I wonder if there were any reported egress issues, noted holding at Kidsgrove also some more at the junctions just south of Stoke, some for 2.5hr.

I wonder what would be protocol on say a 390 held at say Kidsgrove for a significant amount of time, I know the station could perhaps facilitate 6-8 carriages. Manual opening on some carriages perhaps?

 

[Higginsafcb]

The Accumulated wisdom on here , it now makes sense.
I was trying to get from Leicester to Rhyl after the football.
Ended up with an interesting Leicester-Derby-Tamworth-Stafford-Wolves-Shrewsbury-Chester-Rhyl trip.
The 2 min xfer at Wolves was fun.
My sympathies to the family of the deceased, I was a bit confused by so many lined stopped by one incident!

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I wonder if there were any reported egress issues, noted holding at KDG also some more at the junctions just south of SOT, some for 2.5hr.

I wonder what would be protocol on say a 390 held at say KDG for a significant amount of time, I know the station could perhaps facilitate 6-8 carriages. Manual opening on some carriages perhaps?

None that I'm aware of. The train was in Harecastle tunnel area not on the platform for the majority of that time

 

[M60lad]

Out of interest regarding this unfortunate situation what would have been the options for someone at Birmingham wanting to get back to Manchester? XC weren't sending anything North of Birmingham so what alternate routes would there have been to get back to Manchester? I'm sure I read on National Rail that via Leeds was an option would this have actually been allowed?

 

[voyagerdude220]

Out of interest regarding this unfortunate situation what would have been the options for someone at Birmingham wanting to get back to Manchester? XC weren't sending anything North of Birmingham so what alternate routes would there have been to get back to Manchester? I'm sure I read on National Rail that via Leeds was an option would this have actually been allowed?

Yes in times of disruption arrangements should be made between different train companies to ensure that they accept tickets which wouldn't usually be valid in order to allow passengers to complete their journeys on alternative routes.

I believe this has also been the case over the Easter weekend with passengers travelling to/from London because of Euston being closed- e.g. Some have been routed from Preston on Northern services towards Leeds and from there on LNER towards London Kings Cross. Or Manchester to Sheffield and from there down to London St Pancras.

 

[ajp999]

Seemed like the perfect storm with everything compounding. Southern WCML out of action, Reading routing for London via XC not the best, Chilterns falling over, Norton bridge engineering and the signalling issues at Uttoxeter/Caverswall. If there ever was a pinch point it would be Stoke and the vicinity.

I'm not sure why but Longport seems to be very commonly reported for this, is there an issue with security or safety at the station? I recall speaking with an Avanti staff member who said Kidsgrove is terrible in this regard as there is a dark corridor perpendicular to the track where people can just run out from.

When I see these, I always think do websites such as RTT, traksy, et al contribute in any way by giving plenty of intermediate timings and signalling info?

In a wholly respectful manner I wonder if I'm thinking way too much, and it is a situation of whatever train comes first.

With regards this case there was a service to Crewe before the stated one above timing fine to Kidsgrove then halted for a while, however maybe there were issues blocking the junction.

Also brings up the topic of dualling that Alsager line if they wish to keep using the north staffs line as diversions for services with Crewe to Stafford legs.

If I remember correctly, the section between Barthomley Junction and North Stafford Junction was singled as part of the electrification of the Alsager line in 2003 under the Richard Bowker era. Can cause a few minutes delay to LNWR services leaving Crewe whilst waiting for the EMR service to arrive without the additional diversionary traffic.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Although travelling via Sheffield is always a valid route on a Manchester-London Off-Peak Return.

Yes in times of disruption arrangements should be made between different train companies to ensure that they accept tickets which wouldn't usually be valid in order to allow passengers to complete their journeys on alternative routes.

I believe this has also been the case over the Easter weekend with passengers travelling to/from London because of Euston being closed- e.g. Some have been routed from Preston on Northern services towards Leeds and from there on LNER towards London Kings Cross. Or Manchester to Sheffield and from there down to London St Pancras

 

[Watershed]

If I remember correctly, the section between Barthomley Junction and North Stafford Junction was singled as part of the electrification of the Alsager line in 2003 under the Richard Bowker era. Can cause a few minutes delay to LNWR services leaving Crewe whilst waiting for the EMR service to arrive without the additional diversionary traffic.

It was singled long before that as part of the Crewe resignalling scheme in the 80s, but the chance to double it wasn't taken up when the line was electrified.

 

[QueensCurve]

If I remember correctly, the section between Barthomley Junction and North Stafford Junction was singled as part of the electrification of the Alsager line in 2003 under the Richard Bowker era. Can cause a few minutes delay to LNWR services leaving Crewe whilst waiting for the EMR service to arrive without the additional diversionary traffic.

No. It was singled as part of the Crewe remodelling of 1985. Redoubling was suggested in 2003, but didn't happen - only electrification did.

 

[Higginsafcb]

Out of interest regarding this unfortunate situation what would have been the options for someone at Birmingham wanting to get back to Manchester? XC weren't sending anything North of Birmingham so what alternate routes would there have been to get back to Manchester? I'm sure I read on National Rail that via Leeds was an option would this have actually been allowed?

Could have gone via Shrewsbury, then either Chester or Crewe.
I was doing Leicester to Rhyl and staff were fine with me going off piste a bit with my routing.