Cricket

[75A]

There seems to be a general acceptance that what Carey did was completely lawful, and normal practice by wicketkeepers at every level of the game from juniors right up to international matches. There was no pause in his actions, no attempt to wait to see if a foot was lifted like in numerous stumping situations by keepers when spinners are bowling, and at the time he released the ball the umpires had not moved, and crucially had not called 'over' therefore there's no question that the ball was dead. Incidentally I think that the idea that because it's the end of the over makes a difference is a rather interesting one. You might consider that between balls in an over it's not readily obvious when the ball is dead whereas at the end of an over it's absolutely obvious. It's when the umpire says 'over' which is pretty black and white. Anyway I digress, and getting back to the point of Carey's actions being completely normal. If we accept this and many ex-professionals from both England and Australia have, then the argument about whether it was a justifiable dismissal comes down the fact that Bairstow was essentially naive, was not paying close enough attention, and made an assumption that the ball was dead without actually checking that it was, either with the umpire, or with the opposition. So in essence Cummins should've rescinded the appeal and given Bairstow a warning because he made a stupid mistake. That's a pretty thin argument for mine. Are there any other sports where because an opponent has made a dopey mistake there's an expectation that they should get a second chance?

Couldn't agree more, you wouldn't see someone like Max Verstappen or Alex Fergusson giving anyone a second chance.

 

[Falcon1200]

I don't see Bairstow's dismissal as being even slightly controversial. The umpires made the right decision, as they did with the Starc 'catch'.

Agree 100%, in both cases.

We do. What is expected under "the spirit of the game" is clear. It is about behaviour and standards and playing the game the right way.

Where are the 'spirit of the game' laws written down please? And the treatment of Australia by the crowd, and even by the Members in the Long Room, was not exactly within any such nebulous notions.

This was professional sport, at the absolute highest possible level of cricket, and the overwhelming attitude has to be win by all possible legal means - Which is what Australia did.

Bairstow had been within his crease the whole time, and only moved out because he genuinely though the ball was dead.

I would say 'he assumed the ball was dead'; And we all know what assume makes of us!

Had Bairstow not been dismissed for just 10, there was a very good chance that England would have gone on to win the Test, with the record books showing 1-1 rather than 0-2.

 

[birchesgreen]

I think a lot of the aggro is trying to hide the fact Bairstow made a huge boo-boo

 

[DarloRich]

Where are the 'spirit of the game' laws written down please?

it isn't written down. If you play cricket you know.

And the treatment of Australia by the crowd, and even by the Members in the Long Room, was not exactly within any such nebulous notions.

It was hilarious - this wasn't the scum in the "cheap" seats barracking. It was the trust fund tories in the members section. That MCC members behaved like that is unprecedented and should should how far from the spirit of the game the Aussie actions were.

We all know that though, even when we try to pretend otherwise

Had Bairstow not been dismissed for just 10, there was a very good chance that England would have gone on to win the Test, with the record books showing 1-1 rather than 0-2.

it wasn't that wicket that cost the test - it was the brainless batting in the England first innings when Australia set a very obvious trap and several England batsmen walked right into it.

 

[scarby]

Where are the 'spirit of the game' laws written down please? And the treatment of Australia by the crowd, and even by the Members in the Long Room, was not exactly within any such nebulous notions.

There is a preamble to the Laws which covers it, see here:

Cricket owes much of its appeal and enjoyment to the fact that it should be played not only according to the Laws, but also within the Spirit of Cricket.

As you hint, two of the key points include:

Accept the umpire’s decision.

Show self-discipline, even when things go against you.

 

[DarloRich]

Pope injured and out of the rest of the ashes: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/66098368

BBC: England's Ollie Pope out for rest of summer with shoulder injury

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

From the BBC:
Rishi Sunak has accused Australia of breaking the spirit of cricket over the controversial dismissal of England's Jonny Bairstow on Sunday.

Well that’s that then……

The Australian Prime Minister has also chimed in.

https://twitter.com/AlboMP/status/1676004264454541312

I’m proud of our men’s and women’s cricket teams, who have both won their opening two #Ashes matches against England.

Same old Aussies – always winning!

Australia is right behind @ahealy77
, @patcummins30
and their teams and look forward to welcoming them home victorious

The Roar has chimed in with a rather amusing article.

The spirit of cricket was murdered in cold blood by sunburnt thugs - and the game might never recover

It's often said that to win a Test match, you need to take 20 wickets. At Lord's in 2023, Australia proved that this is…

www.theroar.com.au

It’s often said that to win a Test match, you need to take 20 wickets. At Lord’s in 2023, Australia proved that this is not true.

For in the second Test, they did not take 20 wickets: they took 19 wickets, and tore one wicket screaming and wailing from the grief-stricken breast of Mother Cricket herself, as she fell to her knees and wept for the beauty the world had once contained.

That there are those who would defend the unfair, unsportsmanlike, nakedly hostile and frankly racist (yes, English is a race) actions of Australian so-called wicketkeeper Alex Carey and so-called captain Pat Cummins just proves how far we have fallen from the presence of God. Tim Paine must be turning in his grave.

I think a lot of the aggro is trying to hide the fact Bairstow made a huge boo-boo

It's the equivalent of blaming the referee if your team loses a football match.

 

[75A]

It's the equivalent of blaming the referee if your team loses a football match.

Good old Herr Klopp

 

[SteveM70]

The Roar has chimed in with a rather amusing article

"Jonny Bairstow – a decent man of impeccable credentials who is famously so fair-minded that he refuses to even take a catch if he feels that the batsman was trying his best"

 

[prod_pep]

The Roar has chimed in with a rather amusing article.

The spirit of cricket was murdered in cold blood by sunburnt thugs - and the game might never recover

It's often said that to win a Test match, you need to take 20 wickets. At Lord's in 2023, Australia proved that this is…

www.theroar.com.au

Had a jolly good laugh at that article.

Broad continues his tirade against Australia in the media today. The last bastion of sportsmanship, that bloke. It's not as though he has form for throwing balls at batsmen and not walking when the world and his wife can see he is out, does he?

 

[Busaholic]

it wasn't that wicket that cost the test - it was the brainless batting in the England first innings when Australia set a very obvious trap and several England batsmen walked right into it.

Just to let you know I can agree with you on something.

With Pope out and Lawrence being the only spare batsman in the squad (and they say they are not planning on bringing an extra batsman in) it seems to me they might just rely on Root and Lawrence as the (off) spin options at Headingley. I'd rather see Jacks come in to cover both those modes: until last week, Lawrence had made very few runs for Essex. If Wood doesn't play, then why was he ever in the Ashes squad? Woakes would strengthen the batting, though.

 

[Purple Train]

Just to let you know I can agree with you on something.

With Pope out and Lawrence being the only spare batsman in the squad (and they say they are not planning on bringing an extra batsman in) it seems to me they might just rely on Root and Lawrence as the (off) spin options at Headingley. I'd rather see Jacks come in to cover both those modes: until last week, Lawrence had made very few runs for Essex. If Wood doesn't play, then why was he ever in the Ashes squad? Woakes would strengthen the batting, though.

Isn't Lawrence a wrist spinner?

 

[Busaholic]

Isn't Lawrence a wrist spinner?

Not as far as I know. Actually, Foakes is at least as likely to score a fifty as Lawrence, so bring him into the side and restore Bairstow to his rightful place in the order, shorn of wicketkeeping obligations.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Isn't Lawrence a wrist spinner?

Off spin, but with a very peculiar action if I recall correctly.

 

[Purple Train]

Off spin, but with a very peculiar action if I recall correctly.

Thank you. Must have mixed up him and Sibley!

Just seen a video of him bowling - his action is indeed very peculiar! Kind of like a floppy-armed Rashid.

 

[Busaholic]

Thank you. Must have mixed up him and Sibley!

Just seen a video of him bowling - his action is indeed very peculiar! Kind of like a floppy-armed Rashid.

He has 3 test wickets at 32.33

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

12 words come back to haunt Jonny Bairstow as old interview shuts down England argument

12 words come back to haunt Bairstow as old interview shuts down England argument

www.foxsports.com.au

12 words come back to haunt Jonny Bairstow

 

[Purple Train]

He has 3 test wickets at 32.33

I presume you're not talking about Sibley! I remember him bowling in one particularly boring Test and it wasn't particularly good (to put it diplomatically). At that stage I think he had something like four first-class wickets.
I would still love him in the Test side though.

12 words come back to haunt Jonny Bairstow as old interview shuts down England argument

12 words come back to haunt Bairstow as old interview shuts down England argument

www.foxsports.com.au

12 words come back to haunt Jonny Bairstow

While none of those incidences are quite the same, point taken. We shall all go and sit in the Long Room with all the rest of the English hypocrites to have egg flung at our faces, and let the perfect Aussies play the next Test themselves. Hang on, someone's stolen my sandpaper...

In all seriousness, I have only five things to say:
1) The dismissal was very poor on the part of Bairstow
2) The dismissal also does not reflect well on umpire Raza
3) England continuing to moan about it is neither justified nor clever
4) Get on with the cricket, hopefully not continuing to play Kamikaze-ball
5) May the best team win (i.e. England )

 

[Falcon1200]

it isn't written down. If you play cricket you know.

Unless you are an Australian cricketer (World Test Champions, Ashes holders and almost certainly Ashes retainers)

 

[DarloRich]

Unless you are an Australian cricketer (World Test Champions, Ashes holders and almost certainly Ashes retainers)

and renowned cheats

 

[Falcon1200]

and renowned cheats

Yes, but what happened on Sunday was not cheating!

 

[DarloRich]

Yes, but what happened on Sunday was not cheating!

Absolutely ( I have never said the actions were not "lawful") but also "not cricket" imo

Anyway - it has been and gone and wasn't the reason England lost the test.

 

[Busaholic]

In all seriousness, I have only five things to say:
1) The dismissal was very poor on the part of Bairstow
2) The dismissal also does not reflect well on umpire Raza
3) England continuing to moan about it is neither justified nor clever
4) Get on with the cricket, hopefully not continuing to play Kamikaze-ball
5) May the best team win (i.e. England )

Absolutely. England, with the right attitude among the players and inspired by Stokes, could still win at least two matches yet imo if they can improve certain aspects of their play. No balls, catching and beach cricket shots to prove they're macho are the most obvious areas.

About Rana, and the other umpire. Their decision regarding Pope's need to field was dubious too and probably worsened his injury. It needs further investigation and clarification at the very least.

Three days between tests does no player any favours, particularly for the captains, exacerbated if the latter are fast bowlers!

P.S. The only time I saw Lawrence bowl I thought he made a decent fist of it. Mike Procter, the South African, had a weird bowling action - it didn't stop him getting four wickets in four balls once iirc.

 

[Purple Train]

P.S. The only time I saw Lawrence bowl I thought he made a decent fist of it. Mike Procter, the South African, had a weird bowling action - it didn't stop him getting four wickets in four balls once iirc.

If you want South Africans with weird bowling actions, there is no one better than Paul Adams (left-arm unorthodox in every sense of the word).


EDIT: England team out now.

"England make radical changes for the third Test," says the BBC. Let us only hope they make the radical change in style of picking and choosing their moments to attack...

England team: Ben Duckett, Zak Crawley, Harry Brook, Joe Root, Ben Stokes, Jonny Bairstow (wk), Chris Woakes, Moeen Ali, Stuart Broad, Mark Wood, Ollie Robinson.

 

[Howardh]

Looks like it's a team picked to bowl Australia out than bat deep. Probably the right approach seeing as they ahve to win three-in-a-row (and hope the weather's kind and it's not looking all that marvellous). If they do win, and Old Trafford (next Test) proves true-to-form, England will need at least one top class spinner there, is Moeen the best we have that's available??

 

[SteveM70]

is Moeen the best we have that's available??

The best one in Ben Stokes' friends list

 

[Busaholic]

Looks like it's a team picked to bowl Australia out than bat deep. Probably the right approach seeing as they ahve to win three-in-a-row (and hope the weather's kind and it's not looking all that marvellous). If they do win, and Old Trafford (next Test) proves true-to-form, England will need at least one top class spinner there, is Moeen the best we have that's available??

Radical change? Hardly! Wood for Anderson was nailed on, ''rota system'' and all that. Our best, and fastest, bowler from the last test, Tongue, is omitted, but tail end wicket grabber and all round nice man Robinson stays in, perhaps to remind him of his days sending racist texts when he was at Yorkshire. If Ahmed had been included, then it might have exhibited some radicalism and, in all seriousness, his red ball batting is preferable to Ali's and likely to make more runs. It's Steve Smith's 100th test, which I'm sure will draw applause from all the crowd, inc the members.

 

[Whistler40145]

The best one in Ben Stokes' friends list

Doesn't Brendan McCullum have a say in who gets picked?

 

[Busaholic]

The calm before the storm? I hope rain doesn't delay the start. Todd Murphy hailing from the same club in Melbourne as Shane Warne doesn't bode well for England,nor does his record of dismissing Kohli four times and Pujara twice in four tests. Like Jack Leach, he bowls in glasses. I'm assuming he's playing, the Aussies sensibly don't announce their teams in advance: good tactics imo.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

England Demands ‘One Hand One Bounce’ Rule for Third Test — The Shovel

After being surprised that saying ‘Wicky Leave’ before leaving your crease is not a real thing in international cricket, the English cricket team have demanded that the full range of backyard cricket rules be adopted for the next test match, starting at Headingley on Thursday.

theshovel.com.au

After being surprised that saying ‘Wicky Leave’ before leaving your crease is not a real thing in international cricket, England has demanded that it be allowed to adopt the full range of backyard cricket rules for the remainder of the series.

The Shovel chimes in with a late article.

Looks like Marsh will be in for green.