Cross Country Routes that never existed, but theoretically could have

[daodao]

Bradford (city of over 500,000) to Birmingham - possibly via Manchester.

There was a regular restaurant car express from Bradford to Paignton via Birmingham New Street called the Devonian.

 

[RT4038]

But the Bedford to Oxford line remained (I don't think it was ever formally closed, was it?) and yet there was never anything sent that way.

The line remained for freight, but it had been formally closed to passengers 31.12.67. No scheduled passenger trains ran over it until the Bicester-Oxford section was re-opened in the (late 90s?). When Euston station was being reconstructed for electrification (64-66) some Sleeping car trains ran via this line from Bletchley to the Calvert connection to terminate at Marylebone (and others diverted to Kensington Olympia), to give longer overnight track possessions. Don't think any started from there in the opposite direction.

 

[bobster1001]

There was never any significant long distance cross country traffic via the Cambridge-Oxford route. It remains to be seen whether East West Rail ever changes that.

I saw recently there was an open access application for a Bristol to Nottingham service via Swindon, Oxford, Bedford and Leicester. While the government aren't too keen on approving OA at the moment I think this makes sense, and wouldn't abstract revenue from the faster XC route via Birmingham.

 

[dk1]

Central Trains tried very hard to operate a service to Oxford but was apposed every time by Virgin Trains moderation of competition rules.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Were there ever regular passenger services from Merthyr Tydfil, Aberdare, East Kilbride etc. to places outside Wales / Scotland?

Good question. Merthyr was suprisingly well connected with six different companies operating services out of Merthyr Station at the time of grouping.

I doubt there were and direct services using TVR and GWR metals but the L&NWR did offer through carriages from Cardiff (Queen Street) via Caerphilly and Rhymney to Crewe, Liverpool and Manchester. Whether the L&NWR / B&M / Cambrian offered services to England from Merthyr, I'm not sure.

 

[Zomboid]

I saw recently there was an open access application for a Bristol to Nottingham service via Swindon, Oxford, Bedford and Leicester. While the government aren't too keen on approving OA at the moment I think this makes sense, and wouldn't abstract revenue from the faster XC route via Birmingham.

SW to East Midlands seems like a route that would be worth trying.

 

[deltic]

Was there ever a Hull to Birmingham/Bristol service, Leicester to Newcastle, or Bristol to Scotland via Shrewsbury?

 

[The Planner]

SW to East Midlands seems like a route that would be worth trying.

You can do it now with a 14 minute connection at New St northbound, 17 southbound.

 

[Zomboid]

You can do pretty much any journey you like with connections, but a direct SW-EM train via some places that aren't already on the XC network is what I meant.

 

[Topological]

Birkenhead-Margate was a GWR train. It ran via Reading and Redhill. The Kent/Sussex portions split/joined at Redhill


Euston-Stranraer trains went via Ayr after the Port Road closed.

What lack of ambition! This is a bit reminiscent of the Cleethorpes-Exmouth, which did exist. It was basically a Midland train so ran via Lincoln, Nottingham, Birmingham and Bath.

Whilst my suggestion lacked ambition, I dont think Cleethorpes is Roman?

 

[Magdalia]

Was there ever a Hull to Birmingham/Bristol service, Leicester to Newcastle, or Bristol to Scotland via Shrewsbury?

A summer dated Hull-Paignton ran for many years out on Friday night back on Saturday.

The daily Bournemouth-York and vice versa via the Great Central ran through to/from Newcastle in summer.

 

[Recessio]

And through the west midlands to Nottingham.
It's only really the north east and Scotland where direct services are lacking. Plus Kent, but Kent has no useful interregional services to anywhere.

Shame there's no good way to make Cross Country work on the Tonbridge-Redhill-Guildford-Reading lines, opening up Kent to other routes while avoiding London. Especially if there was more interchange onto that line from intersecting routes, most of which seem to travel under or over without a decent junction or an interchange station (or if they do exist, it tends to be an annoying out-of-station interchange like Edenbridge or Dorking)

 

[cle]

If Oxford-Didcot was four tracked then many more possibilities would open up.

Three Bridges / Gatwick to Oxford (sometimes Banbury!) used to be a services via the North Downs. The odd extension basically - but since the Reading works, this dive under move and platform provision is much easier.

So 1tph Gatwick-Reading to at least Didcot and Oxford would be a nice addition. If counts as cross country.

The other way, Redhill to Ashford is massively underused. Fast and straight. Still, not much of interest given the ferries are dead and Eurostar doesn’t call at Ashford. Canterbury at a push? It’d have to be Gatwick/Brighton access.

 

[Zomboid]

That's where the junctions at Redhill are pointing the wrong way. Reversals aren't the end of the world these days, but then you've got to go across the station both ways. None of the BML junctions outside London are configured right to allow trains to go from East to West without difficulty.

 

[Kilopylae]

Bristol (or Exeter/Plymouth) - Liverpool via Birmingham and Crewe.

That would make too much sense, it's interesting how much Manchester but not Liverpool being on XC affects the mental geography for people living in the south west. I've been to Manchester five or six times but never once anywhere near Liverpool (unless you count Manchester itself as near Liverpool...?)

 

[Failed Unit]

It was Ipswich to Sheffield. The unit was used for training in its long lay over at Ipswich and returned in the afternoon.

Was that as a fore-runner to the Blackpool - Harwich service. Maybe one for a different thread but did the 150/1 do much work in Anglia? Seems odd to train crew on them unless they were similar to the 150/2 which did.

 

[AndrewE]

Bristol (or Exeter/Plymouth) - Liverpool via Birmingham and Crewe.

These trains ran in BR days, maybe 2 a day in each direction. Northbound the morning one called at Hartford (Cheshire,) allegedly because - or for the convenience of - ICI top brass going from Avonmouth(?) to the Northwich works.

 

[dk1]

Was that as a fore-runner to the Blackpool - Harwich service. Maybe one for a different thread but did the 150/1 do much work in Anglia? Seems odd to train crew on them unless they were similar to the 150/2 which did.

Everything else was loco-hauled at the time. This was just a one-off for one maybe two timetables. The Big Bang came in May 1988 when 156s took over with a cross country timetable like we’d never ever seen before.

 

[Magdalia]

Was that as a fore-runner to the Blackpool - Harwich service. Maybe one for a different thread but did the 150/1 do much work in Anglia? Seems odd to train crew on them unless they were similar to the 150/2 which did.

No. The Blackpool-Harwich started in May 1986. It was a combination of the Blackpool-Cambridge and Peterborough-Harwich, and pre-dates the Sheffield-Ipswich.

The class 150/1s only ran into East Anglia in the May 1987 timetable. They pre-date the introduction of class 156 in May 1988, which is when the loco hauled trains finished.

In addition to the Sheffield-Ipswich there were also class 150/1 on 1540/1711 Birmingham-Cambridge going back next morning on 0525/0713 Cambridge-Birmingham. The first evening arrival also used to work 1913 Cambridge-Peterborough and 2110 return.

All of these class 150/1 turns would frequently get loco hauled substitutions, except the Peterborough trip, which would be a first generation DMU if the arrival from Birmingham was hauled.

Cambridge drivers worked the class 150/1s, I had one on a Cambridge-Royston shuttle.

Class 150/2 did not come to East Anglia until the 1990s.

 

[Prestige15]

Heres a few. Just a rough idea why not, it's the weekend

A Glasgow - Penzance via WCML like VTXC use to do back in the old days.

Swansea - Cardiff - Birmingham - Leicester - Nottingham - Lincoln - Cleethorpes

Ramsgate - Ashford int - Redhill (reverse) - Gatwick - Chichester - Portsmouth/Southampton/Bournemouth.

Holyhead - Chester - Preston - Glasgow/Edinburgh

 

[frodshamfella]

Liverpool to Bristol and Liverpool to Cardiff , would be routes id suggest.

 

[BenS]

Was there ever a Hull to Birmingham/Bristol service, Leicester to Newcastle, or Bristol to Scotland via Shrewsbury?

Hull to Birmingham would be nice. Perhaps CrossCountry could divert one train a day to Hull instead of York, as a starter.

Hull to Newcastle is another potential route.

 

[dk1]

Hull to Birmingham would be nice. Perhaps CrossCountry could divert one train a day to Hull instead of York, as a starter.

There was a plan to divert the Reading - Newcastle service to Hull each hour after HS2 was fully complete but that of course is now not going to happen.

 

[Zomboid]

How bad would the time penalty be to run it via Hull.
Bad, I'd assume. But Hull seems pretty badly connected considering how big it is.

 

[dk1]

The class 150/1s only ran into East Anglia in the May 1987 timetable. They pre-date the introduction of class 156 in May 1988, which is when the loco hauled trains finished.


Class 150/2 did not come to East Anglia until the 1990s.

When I was looked after unit control we had 213, 217, 227, 229, 231, 235, 237, 255 & 257 allocated to Crown Point. These were later joined by 245 from Scotrail.

Occasionally a Railtrack 150/0 test train would be left on the depot but very few drivers would agree to move it. It never bothered me as only seemed to be the crew door and lack of vestibule ends that differed from the 150/2.

How bad would the time penalty be to run it via Hull.
Bad, I'd assume. But Hull seems pretty badly connected considering how big it is.

It would have to terminate at Hull rather than run it via.

 

[AndrewE]

Liverpool to Bristol and Liverpool to Cardiff , would be routes id suggest.

They did. See post #47.

 

[The Ham]

How bad would the time penalty be to run it via Hull.
Bad, I'd assume. But Hull seems pretty badly connected considering how big it is.

The most likely would be one or two a day in each direction for an early/late service (similar to what Guildford gets)

 

[JonathanH]

The most likely would be one or two a day in each direction for an early/late service (similar to what Guildford gets)

Past tense, what Guildford got. Guildford isn't on the CrossCountry network now, except for occasional diversions due to engineering work and empty stock workings. The trouble with extensions such as Guildford and Hull is the disproportionate effort to get staff and units in the right place to run the service.

 

[Zomboid]

It would have to terminate at Hull rather than run it via

I can see why it would be a long trip that might make it undesirable, but I can't see what would make it impossible to go Leeds - Selby - Hull - Selby - York.

It's one of those places that really ought to be on the XC network, but I guess you'd need to figure out what to get rid of in order to do so.

 

[jadmor]

The Fife towns of Dunfermline and Kirkcaldy used to have direct services to Stirling (discontinued in 1968) and Glasgow. The one train a day to Glasgow ran until Covid - not sure of the exact date of cancellation.