Cross-Country: suggestions to improve things in the short term

[Starmill]

They don't have the stock for what they are operating now, let alone adding to it.

They did extend a number of Manchester to Bristol services to Exeter, though. It means that the spread of express trains from Bristol towards Exeter in the middle of the day is now far more even, if rather odd at times:

1045 Plymouth
1115 Paignton
1145 Plymouth
1245 Plymouth
1310 Exeter St Davids
1345 Plymouth
1445 Plymouth
1509 Exeter St Davids
1545 Plymouth
1609 Exeter St Davids
1645 Penzance
1711 Paignton
1745 Penzance
1811 Exeter St Davids
1845 Penzance
1947 Plymouth

There's a slightly odd gap just after 1900. Of course, it doesn't actually need to be an XC train that fills it - there are stopping services at 1855 and 1914 but they do not get you to Exeter significantly before the 1947.

 

[Anonymous10]

How overcrowded is the Cardiff to Nottingham service just wondering

 

[Meerkat]

Any idea what the earliest 80x delivery date would be if you weren’t fussy where they got built (though I see good reasons for the DfT to delay to keep the UK factories chugging along)?

 

[TheBigD]

I get that, but as there is already a limited service at that station and the service takes the same time regardless of whether or not it stops there, I guess it's down to capacity.

The stop at Manea costs 2 minutes. In the up direction the signalling at Manea is restrictive for stopping trains so the extra 2 minutes allowed is optimistic.

And god knows why people on this forum think there's a huge mass of people waiting to use extra services from Manea.

 

[greatvoyager]

How overcrowded is the Cardiff to Nottingham service just wondering

Usually quite full when I've travelled on it, and I expect will be even more crowded when the Worcestershire Parkway station opens.

 

[greatvoyager]

The stop at Manea costs 2 minutes. In the up direction the signalling at Manea is restrictive for stopping trains so the extra 2 minutes allowed is optimistic.

And god knows why people on this forum think there's a huge mass of people waiting to use extra services from Manea.

I'm only going by the vocal criticism the Mayor of Manea has given.
https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/ne...y-trains-manea-cambridge-jamespalmer-16536447

 

[TheBigD]

I'm only going by the vocal criticism the Mayor of Manea has given.
https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/ne...y-trains-manea-cambridge-jamespalmer-16536447

He's a little but more than the mayor of Manea, he's the Mayor for the Cambridge and Peterborough combined authority. He's quite vocal about rail matters in his area and often eager to get headlines.

 

[Anonymous10]

Usually quite full when I've travelled on it, and I expect will be even more crowded when the Worcestershire Parkway station opens.

Wonderful are there any seats left by Newport or am I best served getting off my tfw device at Central and getting on there

 

[greatvoyager]

Wonderful are there any seats left by Newport or am I best served getting off my tfw device at Central and getting on there

In my experience it would better to get on at Central.

 

[Anonymous10]

In my experience it would better to get on at Central.

Ok many. Thanks I'm planning a visit to my friend from up Nottingham way and I live in West Wales so it will depend by I'll do my best to get on there

 

[greatvoyager]

Ok many. Thanks I'm planning a visit to my friend from up Nottingham way and I live in West Wales so it will depend by I'll do my best to get on there

No problem.
One thing that is going to help in the future are the additional 170/6 vehicles from West Midlands Railway.

 

[Anonymous10]

No problem.
One thing that is going to help in the future are the additional 170/6 vehicles from West Midlands Railway.

Ok thanks

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Well. A bit off topic but I don't know if it's short term or til the end of the next XC franchise but when I got off the 16:27 from Exeter St. David's at Bristol Temple Meads on the 02/01/20, the member of staff I spoke to (before it left on its 17:34 to Leeds) said we're getting Virgin's Voyagers. I know Virgin is now Avanti West Coast of course.

If I'm honest, I think most of us want more HST's. However, if I was the person at CrossCountry or DfT in charge of bringing in more trains for the XC franchise then I'd be tempted to bring in the Voyagers. Some people might not like it but at the end of the day they're quite modern, extremely reliable and XC desperately need extra suitable stock.

So if the 20 Voyagers from the WCML mean at least a few thousand more seats at the end of the day then I'm pleased with that. Also, I suspect the 20 Voyagers wouldn't need that much work done (maybe reallocation of some seats).

If / when XC get round to refurbishing the Voyagers - probably from the next franchise - then I'd love to see the same interior colour scheme as on the HST's and Class 170's. However I know that XC would need enough trains to allow this to happen.

However, I believe Avanti will refurbish the Voyagers til new trains arrive to replace them. In which case, I don't think XC will refurbish them as they'd have had a refurbishment by the time they're withdrawn.

If the 20 Voyagers come from Avanti either in the short term or til say the early 2030's then fine !

 

[greatvoyager]

Well. A bit off topic but I don't know if it's short term or til the end of the next XC franchise but when I got off the 16:27 from Exeter St. David's at Bristol Temple Meads on the 02/01/20, the member of staff I spoke to (before it left on its 17:34 to Leeds) said we're getting Virgin's Voyagers. I know Virgin is now Avanti West Coast of course.

If I'm honest, I think most of us want more HST's. However, if I was the person at CrossCountry or DfT in charge of bringing in more trains for the XC franchise then I'd be tempted to bring in the Voyagers. Some people might not like it but at the end of the day they're quite modern, extremely reliable and XC desperately need extra suitable stock.

So if the 20 Voyagers from the WCML mean at least a few thousand more seats at the end of the day then I'm pleased with that. Also, I suspect the 20 Voyagers wouldn't need that much work done (maybe reallocation of some seats).

If / when XC get round to refurbishing the Voyagers - probably from the next franchise - then I'd love to see the same interior colour scheme as on the HST's and Class 170's. However I know that XC would need enough trains to allow this to happen.

However, I believe Avanti will refurbish the Voyagers til new trains arrive to replace them. In which case, I don't think XC will refurbish them as they'd have had a refurbishment by the time they're withdrawn.

If the 20 Voyagers come from Avanti either in the short term or til say the early 2030's then fine !

Apparently apart from the spare red/blue fabric which was used to refresh the units in 2014, it's been mentioned that the burgandy XC colours doesn't meet PRM standards in voyagers for some reason.
I'd imagine that they would also have to move the shop vehicle in the ex-Avanti sets to it's original location to bring them in line with the rest of the fleet.
If they get the Avanti units (which hope happens, but unless its announced I won't hold my breath), and if they're a short term solution of a few years, I expect not much to be done to them.

 

[Jozhua]

How long will it take the new Voyagers to cascade down?

Must be a good 3-4 years, considering the timescales of train deliveries these days. Then there's the testing...and more testing....

I think that's mostly why I was thinking about chucking some 67's + Mk4's at the problem lol, it's going to be a long time in human years till we see more trains running on XC.

Meanwhile, just wondered if any spare 185's coming from TPE could run certain 170 routes. Guess this all depends on what happens to Liverpool - Notts.

 

[43055]

Ok many. Thanks I'm planning a visit to my friend from up Nottingham way and I live in West Wales so it will depend by I'll do my best to get on there

The 1045 from Cardiff is normally a double 170 (4 coaches) on weekdays if this helps.

Personally not much will happen soon and I do hope that the extensions to the core network (Guildford, Bath, Aberdeen and Penzance) do stay as these can be quite valuable to some people. One option that could happen for the may timetable is that a third HST could be used mid week which would allow another voyager to be paired up somewhere. This would continue to allow 2 HST's to be on maintenance in the week as per now and then 4 or 5 sets can be out between Friday and Sunday/Monday.

 

[Mogz]

1. Longer trains.
2. Better mix of table and airline seating.
3. More destinations served that used to be served brought back eg Brighton, Liverpool, Weymouth, Gatwick.

 

[greatvoyager]

How long will it take the new Voyagers to cascade down?

Must be a good 3-4 years, considering the timescales of train deliveries these days. Then there's the testing...and more testing....

I think that's mostly why I was thinking about chucking some 67's + Mk4's at the problem lol, it's going to be a long time in human years till we see more trains running on XC.

Meanwhile, just wondered if any spare 185's coming from TPE could run certain 170 routes. Guess this all depends on what happens to Liverpool - Notts.

All I know is that the length of Avanti's maintenance contract with Bombardier runs until December 2022.
https://www.railway-technology.com/news/bombardier-maintain-avanti-west-coast/

 

[Anonymous10]

The 1045 from Cardiff is normally a double 170 (4 coaches) on weekdays if this helps.

Personally not much will happen soon and I do hope that the extensions to the core network (Guildford, Bath, Aberdeen and Penzance) do stay as these can be quite valuable to some people. One option that could happen for the may timetable is that a third HST could be used mid week which would allow another voyager to be paired up somewhere. This would continue to allow 2 HST's to be on maintenance in the week as per now and then 4 or 5 sets can be out between Friday and Sunday/Monday.

I shall see if I can get from mine to Cardiff by then

 

[Energy]

I'm only going by the vocal criticism the Mayor of Manea has given.
https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/ne...y-trains-manea-cambridge-jamespalmer-16536447

He seems a little out of touch with the economics side of things, in that article he says that he wants the power to strip a franchise if they don't do what he says. Considering Manea has a population of 2000-2500 I doubt there is much demand, at the end of the day XC are an intercity operator, they don't need to stop at a station because a couple people may get on/off occasionally.

He says in this that he wants a shuttle service from 6am to midnight between Peterborough and Cambridge stopping at every Fenland station, 6 am to midnight seems a little excessive for all the stations.

 

[greatvoyager]

He seems a little insane, in that article he says that he wants the power to strip a franchise if they don't do what he says. Considering Manea has a population of 2000-2500 I doubt there is much demand, at the end of the day XC are an intercity operator, they don't need to stop at a station because a couple people may get on/off occasionally.

Was Manea a stop when XC originally took over the service from Central Trains?

 

[TheBigD]

Was Manea a stop when XC originally took over the service from Central Trains?

Yes. It's been just 2 Cambridge trains each away a day for over 20 years during which the service has been operated by Regional Railways Central, Central Trains, and now Cross Country.

The stops on the Ipswich service is a recent addition from a couple of years ago.

 

[ohgoditsjames]

Is an overcrowded 4/5 car 220/221 more compliant than the unmodified 7 car (and spacious) HST's? I would say no! I see no reason why XC shouldn't take an extra 2,3 or even 4 HST's to help cover more diagrams as a temporary stop gap. 2022 is the absolute minimum for when EMR will release their 222's.

 

[greatvoyager]

Is an overcrowded 4/5 car 220/221 more compliant than the unmodified 7 car (and spacious) HST's? I would say no! I see no reason why XC shouldn't take an extra 2,3 or even 4 HST's to help cover more diagrams as a temporary stop gap. 2022 is the absolute minimum for when EMR will release their 222's.

They would have to get derogation in order to do it. As much as I agree it would be a good idea in the short term, I wonder how much admin would be required to do it.