Crossrail - Construction updates and progress towards opening (now expected 24 May 2022)

[Joliver]

My mistake, I hadn't realised it had been rebuilt in that way. Which makes the lack of full accessibility even less acceptable

Abbey Wood EL has got level boarding. There is a separate gate line for platforms 3&4 from street level when it opens.

 

[mm333]

The correct data is on RTT and in National Rail now. The first trains are the 0633 from Paddington and the 0630 from Abbey Wood: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...24/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=passenger&order=wtt

 

[subk2010]

Any ceremony? If there will be, will it be held at Abbey Wood or Paddington?

 

[matt_world2004]

You are going to be able to take an unfolded bicycle through the core in the off peak before 7:30, 9:30-16:00 and after 19:00

 

[arb]

The correct data is on RTT and in National Rail now.

The journey planners now route a lot more journeys from places such as Cambridge via a semi-fast Thameslink to Farringdon instead of the fast Great Northern to Kings Cross. Playing around with various different connections, it looks like there is a 3-minute minimum connection time between Thameslink/Crossrail at Farringdon, compared to 15 minutes betweeen train/tube at King's Cross, e.g. for a journey from City Thameslink to Paddington I'm offered:

• City Thameslink (dep 0296) to Farringdon (arr 0928) on Thmeslink
• Farringdon (dep 0931) to Paddington (arr 0939) on Crossrail

 

[Bread & cheese]

The National Rail app is allowing a journey on 24 May from Reading to Farringdon via Paddington and what it is still calling TfL Rail, on a Reading to Farringdon route London Not Und ticket priced by SWR (and intended for use on routes such as Reading>Waterloo>Waterloo East>London Bridge). Anytime day single £20.40, compared to Reading to Paddington anytime day single £27.60

This is despite the TfL staff brief stating:
National Rail tickets marked “Not Underground” are not valid between Paddington and Abbey Wood.

 

[Malaxa]

You are going to be able to take an unfolded bicycle through the core in the off peak before 7:30, 9:30-16:00 and after 19:00

That makes a lot of sense. Excellent. The original blanket central area ban policy dated back to 2006 [!] Is there a link to the new policy?

 

[su31]

You are going to be able to take an unfolded bicycle through the core in the off peak before 7:30, 9:30-16:00 and after 19:00

Folded cycles can be taken anywhere at any time on the Elizabeth line, this is the same as LU.

Conditions of Carriage will be updated at the opening of the Elizabeth line.

You can take a non-folded bicycle on the Elizabeth line on Mondays to Fridays, on trains:
•Arriving at Liverpool Street (from the east) or Stratford, before 07:30 and after 09:30
•Leaving Liverpool Street (to the east) or Stratford, before 16:00 and after 19:00
•Arriving at London Paddington (from the west),before 07:45 and after 09:45
•Leaving London Paddington (to the west) before 1630 and after 19:00
•Between Paddington and Abbey Wood before 0730, between 0930 -1600 and after 1900

You can take a non-folding bicycle on the Elizabeth line anytime on weekends and bank holidays.

 

[Watershed]

The National Rail app is allowing a journey on 24 May from Reading to Farringdon via Paddington and what it is still calling TfL Rail, on a Reading to Farringdon route London Not Und ticket priced by SWR (and intended for use on routes such as Reading>Waterloo>Waterloo East>London Bridge). Anytime day single £20.40, compared to Reading to Paddington anytime day single £27.60

This is despite the TfL staff brief stating:
National Rail tickets marked “Not Underground” are not valid between Paddington and Abbey Wood.

The problem is that this brief doesn't reflect the position under the NRCoT. The Elizabeth Line is, and will remain, a National Rail service through the core. There isn't some other company that will be operating it outwith the NRCoT - it will still be MTR Corporation (Crossrail) Ltd., as listed as a TOC in the NRCoT.

Whilst for 99% of cases, the only fares to/from/across the Core are those which would be valid on the Underground anyway (and hence accepted on the EL), Farringdon does present problems such as this. I predict a number of disputes arising!

Ultimately I imagine the problem will be "solved" by adding TfL Rail to the industry data definition of TOCs that are barred for route codes 'London Not Und' and 'Not Underground'. This is despite the fact that legally this route code only prevents the use of the TOC, London Underground, unless it were changed to read 'London Not Und/EL' or similar. For most purposes this will be deemed to be enough as it will prevent journey planners offering tickets on the EL.

However, someone who turns up to a ticket machine and buys a ticket to Farringdon in this manner would not only be legally entitled to use the EL, but also be entirely justified in believing the Elizabeth Line to fall outwith the scope of that restriction - particularly seeing as TfL have chosen to define it as its own mode, with the suffix 'Line' to distinguish it from being part of the Underground.

 

[Snow1964]

TfL has issued a new guide : Everything you need to know about the Elizabeth line

(could Mods move the link when they open the thread from 24th on the open line)

Your journey by Elizabeth line

Find helpful advice and information for your Elizabeth line journey

tfl.gov.uk

Everything you need to know about the Elizabeth line​

Our newest railway will add around 10% more capacity to central London's rail network.

• Opening stages
• Opening hours
• Fares and ticketing
• Main features

High-frequency services connecting to more places - for many the new railway will mean shorter journey times between popular destinations in the Capital. The travel experience will be more comfortable on the spacious trains and in the new and newly refurbished stations.

Opening stages​

The Elizabeth line will initially operate as three separate railways, with services from Reading, Heathrow and Shenfield connecting with the central tunnels from autumn this year. When the final stage is complete, customers will be able to travel seamlessly from Abbey Wood to Heathrow and Reading, and from Shenfield to Heathrow.

From 24 May 2022 (subject to final safety approvals)​

• Services currently running as TfL Rail will be rebranded to the new Elizabeth line
• The central section opens, adding nine new stations to the TfL network (Bond Street will open to Elizabeth line customers later in 2022)
• Service will start with 12 trains an hour (a train every 5 minutes) running between Paddington and Abbey Wood from 06:30-23:00, Monday to Saturday. (Work will continue outside those hours and on Sundays to allow for any testing and software updates needed before higher frequency services start in autumn 2022)

The line will operate in London as three separate railways, in the east, west and through central London. Elizabeth line customers travelling between:

• Shenfield and the central section of the route will need to change trains at Liverpool Street, walking to/from the new Elizabeth line Liverpool Street station
• Reading or Heathrow and the central section will need to change trains at Paddington, walking to/from the new Paddington Elizabeth line station
• Paddington and Abbey Wood only - no changes needed

From autumn 2022​

The lines from Reading, Heathrow and Shenfield will connect with the central tunnels. This means customers travelling from:

• Reading and Heathrow can travel east all the way to Abbey Wood without changing at Paddington
• Shenfield can travel west all the way to Paddington without changing at Liverpool Street

By May 2023​

• The separate sections of Elizabeth line are fully connected and services run to the final timetable
• 24 trains an hour will run at the busiest times between Paddington and Whitechapel.

 

[stuu]

The journey planners now route a lot more journeys from places such as Cambridge via a semi-fast Thameslink to Farringdon instead of the fast Great Northern to Kings Cross. Playing around with various different connections, it looks like there is a 3-minute minimum connection time between Thameslink/Crossrail at Farringdon, compared to 15 minutes betweeen train/tube at King's Cross, e.g. for a journey from City Thameslink to Paddington I'm offered:

• City Thameslink (dep 0296) to Farringdon (arr 0928) on Thmeslink
• Farringdon (dep 0931) to Paddington (arr 0939) on Crossrail

That seems a bit hard to believe that is correct. It can easily take 3 minutes at places with easier changes e.g. Met/Jubilee at Baker Street, let alone potentially having to walk 100m+ just to get to the stairs off the (potentially busy) narrow platform at Farringdon

 

[PG]

That seems a bit hard to believe that is correct. It can easily take 3 minutes at places with easier changes e.g. Met/Jubilee at Baker Street, let alone potentially having to walk 100m+ just to get to the stairs off the (potentially busy) narrow platform at Farringdon

I wonder if selecting the 'allow extra time to change trains in London' option adds on the usual half hour or slightly less?

 

[Nottingham59]

The journey planners now route a lot more journeys from places such as Cambridge via a semi-fast Thameslink to Farringdon instead of the fast Great Northern to Kings Cross.

I think journey planners will send a great number of people via Farringdon, probably many more than TfL passenger flow modelling expects. Anyone who specifies minimum changes, perhaps because they have mobility problems, from say Reading to Cambridge or Reading to Brighton etc. is going to get routed via Farringdon. As will those who ask for more time to change.

Also, will ToCs who set prices for tickets will get a bigger cut of tickets routed "not underground" than they will for tickets with a Maltese Cross? If so, there is a financial incentive for ToCs to make routes available which force people to travel via Farringdon.

 

[JaJaWa]

TfL has issued a new guide : Everything you need to know about the Elizabeth line

That's from last week:

From the new TfL page Everything you need to know about the Elizabeth line:

But I note the bolded text "24 May 2022 (subject to final safety approvals)" has been added to the opening date. Hope they've not just given themselves a get-out clause!

 

[Malaxa]

Folded cycles can be taken anywhere at any time on the Elizabeth line, this is the same as LU.

Conditions of Carriage will be updated at the opening of the Elizabeth line.

You can take a non-folded bicycle on the Elizabeth line on Mondays to Fridays, on trains:
•Arriving at Liverpool Street (from the east) or Stratford, before 07:30 and after 09:30
•Leaving Liverpool Street (to the east) or Stratford, before 16:00 and after 19:00
•Arriving at London Paddington (from the west),before 07:45 and after 09:45
•Leaving London Paddington (to the west) before 1630 and after 19:00
•Between Paddington and Abbey Wood before 0730, between 0930 -1600 and after 1900

You can take a non-folding bicycle on the Elizabeth line anytime on weekends and bank holidays.

Thanks, I hope that happens, as a continuation of the old TfL policy. A FoI request for this policy from late 2019 elicited the bizarre reply that the information wasn't held...

FOI request detail

FOI request detail

tfl.gov.uk

 

[YSTrains]

When the full Elizabeth Line operation begins, does that mean GWR will cease to serve stations between London and Reading?

 

[Watershed]

That seems a bit hard to believe that is correct. It can easily take 3 minutes at places with easier changes e.g. Met/Jubilee at Baker Street, let alone potentially having to walk 100m+ just to get to the stairs off the (potentially busy) narrow platform at Farringdon

It's because it is adopting the current minimum interchange at Farringdon (which is 3 minutes, designed to allow same-platform changes between Thameslink services or cross-platform changes to the adjacent Sub Surface lines). The Thameslink and Crossrail stations at Farringdon have been joined up into one despite having separate TIPLOCs and CRSs.

I suspect this will be corrected in due course, with Farringdon's default minimum interchange time increasing (perhaps to something between 5-10 minutes) and there being a new TOC-specific reduced interchange time, allowing 3 minute TL-TL changes. This already exists at a number of stations, e.g. Clapham Junction and London Victoria.

 

[59CosG95]

When the full Elizabeth Line operation begins, does that mean GWR will cease to serve stations between London and Reading?

No. Even discounting the branch lines, GWR still serve Slough throughout the day, and there are a few semi-fasts that run beyond Reading to Didcot.

 

[matt_world2004]

When the full Elizabeth Line operation begins, does that mean GWR will cease to serve stations between London and Reading?

The GwR frequency to the inner suburban stations will remain as it is now the last reduction in frequency for crossrail happened in 2019

 

[FGW_Lad]

So we are still expecting the Didcot services to call at Hayes & Ealing as now then? That’s good as all stations TFL services from Slough to London is about 30 mins or so

 

[matt_world2004]

---

So we are still expecting the Didcot services to call at Hayes & Ealing as now then? That’s good as all stations TFL services from Slough to London is about 30 mins or so

Calling pattens will remain the same didcot services will call at Ealing and Hayes in the off peak. Timings may change although I doubt it after May

 

[stuu]

It's because it is adopting the current minimum interchange at Farringdon (which is 3 minutes, designed to allow same-platform changes between Thameslink services or cross-platform changes to the adjacent Sub Surface lines). The Thameslink and Crossrail stations at Farringdon have been joined up into one despite having separate TIPLOCs and CRSs.

I suspect this will be corrected in due course, with Farringdon's default minimum interchange time increasing (perhaps to something between 5-10 minutes) and there being a new TOC-specific reduced interchange time, allowing 3 minute TL-TL changes. This already exists at a number of stations, e.g. Clapham Junction and London Victoria.

Makes sense, thanks

 

[Horizon22]

On the contrary (in my experience) - most occasional users I know think of the Overground as part of the mainline railway system. Partly because long-time Londoners have always referred colloquially to "the overground" to mean local London "mainline trains" to distinguish them from the Underground for rail journeys within London. (Hence the silliness of branding some of the "overground" as the Overground - I now sometimes hear people specifying "with a capital O" when that's specifically what they mean - I've done it myself sometimes with people who I know have historically used the generic "overground" description.)

In fact, someone on a thread on this website - just the other day - when trying to explain where on Marylebone station they were picked up for an alleged ticketing infringement, used the Underground/overground distinction when explaining that the incident took place in connection with the Chiltern services, not the Bakerloo line.

I certainly agree with those suggesting that Crossrail and Thameslink should have some joint modal brand (like the RER in Paris), since they have somewhat similar functions to one another - and to the RER. But I doubt that the Overground sharing the same brand would be appropriate.

Yes this is partly what I mean - Londoners call the “overground” any mainline trains. Thus the general branding of the Overground leads to a bit of confusion.

The Elizabeth Line doesn’t fit neatly into the current TfL branding options so we’ve been left with a bit of a fudge.

 

[miklcct]

The National Rail app is allowing a journey on 24 May from Reading to Farringdon via Paddington and what it is still calling TfL Rail, on a Reading to Farringdon route London Not Und ticket priced by SWR (and intended for use on routes such as Reading>Waterloo>Waterloo East>London Bridge). Anytime day single £20.40, compared to Reading to Paddington anytime day single £27.60

This is despite the TfL staff brief stating:
National Rail tickets marked “Not Underground” are not valid between Paddington and Abbey Wood.

I believe this loophole will be closed soon as this is going to be taken advantage by Reading commuters, by modifying the route to become "via Staines".

 

[snowball]

Just noticed the connection:

Underground, overground -> Wombles -> Elizabeth Beresford -> Elizabeth Line.

It isn't really named after the Queen at all.

 

[thomalex]

And also it's not like the normal Underground lines don't have stations or even tracks shared with National Rail either (Metropolitan or Bakerloo line, anyone?), so to be honest, I don't actually see why the Elizabeth line couldn't be branded like a Tube line too. After Sub-surface and Deep-level tube it would just be a new third category, RER-style or whatever. The average passenger is not gonna care all that much.

Completely agree. If the Underground mode can be used to describe both sub-surface lines with larger trains going out to places like Amersham and deep level tubes with close stops in central London then I don't see why the definition can't be stretched slightly to also include deep level full size trains. And as we know most of the Underground is actually not underground.

It seems clear to me that the Underground are frequent TfL services that run under central London giving access to the core of the city and Overground are the less frequent suburban lines that encircle it. Crossrail fits well within the definition of Underground so why add another mode?

As soon as the the decision was made to go with Elizabeth line they should have gone fully Underground with this but instead have stuck to this idea of a different mode which practically serves no purpose. As it is I see the current state of the Elizabeth line as a sort of super-tube with it's own roundel but essentially part of the Underground.

As an illustration of how insisting on a new mode adds confusion I was at Liverpool Street yesterday and noticed new signage now on the platforms of the Central line which had a Elizabeth line roundel, Overground roundel, and then "Circle and Hammersmith & City lines". Given the small size of the text in the roundels it's really quite confusing. Really it should say "Circle, Elizabeth and Hammersmith & City lines"

 

[59CosG95]

Just noticed the connection:

Underground, overground -> Wombles -> Elizabeth Beresford -> Elizabeth Line.

It isn't really named after the Queen at all.

If this is the case, why did Wimbledon get left out?

 

[matt_world2004]

Completely agree. If the Underground mode can be used to describe both sub-surface lines with larger trains going out to places like Amersham and deep level tubes with close stops in central London then I don't see why the definition can't be stretched slightly to also include deep level full size trains. And as we know most of the Underground is actually not underground.

It seems clear to me that the Underground are frequent TfL services that run under central London giving access to the core of the city and Overground are the less frequent suburban lines that encircle it. Crossrail fits well within the definition of Underground so why add another mode?

As soon as the the decision was made to go with Elizabeth line they should have gone fully Underground with this but instead have stuck to this idea of a different mode which practically serves no purpose. As it is I see the current state of the Elizabeth line as a sort of super-tube with it's own roundel but essentially part of the Underground.

As an illustration of how insisting on a new mode adds confusion I was at Liverpool Street yesterday and noticed new signage now on the platforms of the Central line which had a Elizabeth line roundel, Overground roundel, and then "Circle and Hammersmith & City lines". Given the small size of the text in the roundels it's really quite confusing. Really it should say "Circle, Elizabeth and Hammersmith & City lines"

The problem with branding it an underground line is that the full range of underground tickets are not valid on it . This is particularly problematic with oyster west of West Drayton and paper tickets to Heathrow

 

[greyman42]

The correct data is on RTT and in National Rail now. The first trains are the 0633 from Paddington and the 0630 from Abbey Wood: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...24/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=passenger&order=wtt

When will journey planners be updated to show a journey from York to Canary Wharf using Crossrail?

 

[miklcct]

Completely agree. If the Underground mode can be used to describe both sub-surface lines with larger trains going out to places like Amersham and deep level tubes with close stops in central London then I don't see why the definition can't be stretched slightly to also include deep level full size trains. And as we know most of the Underground is actually not underground.

It seems clear to me that the Underground are frequent TfL services that run under central London giving access to the core of the city and Overground are the less frequent suburban lines that encircle it. Crossrail fits well within the definition of Underground so why add another mode?

As soon as the the decision was made to go with Elizabeth line they should have gone fully Underground with this but instead have stuck to this idea of a different mode which practically serves no purpose. As it is I see the current state of the Elizabeth line as a sort of super-tube with it's own roundel but essentially part of the Underground.

As an illustration of how insisting on a new mode adds confusion I was at Liverpool Street yesterday and noticed new signage now on the platforms of the Central line which had a Elizabeth line roundel, Overground roundel, and then "Circle and Hammersmith & City lines". Given the small size of the text in the roundels it's really quite confusing. Really it should say "Circle, Elizabeth and Hammersmith & City lines"

London Underground is not part of National Rail. Crossrail is. Therefore Crossrail can't be part of the Underground.