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Cycle Sport

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dazzler

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Moderators: I have done a search for an open Cycle Sport thread and found none. If there is one, please feel free to merge this one. Thank you!

I posted a little snippet in the "Why are there less cycle spaces..." thread about Grasstrack racing and was asked by a couple of forum members if I could elaborate further. Grasstrack is a bit of a niche interest, so I have started this thread for general discussion of all aspects of Cycle Sport, whether it be Road, Time Trial, Track (hard and grass), Cycle Cross, Mountain Biking (all variations!), BMX, or Cycle Speedway. (I think I've covered them all!)

So, to the original question, "What is Grasstrack racing?"

Grasstrack racing is a variation of "Normal" track racing, as seen on the telly at the Olympics, Commonwealth Games, World Championships, etc. The grass version of the sport is invariably outdoors, but there is rarely a standard length or geometry of track, the track being laid out to fill the available are of grass. The track is usually flat, without banked corners, although the grasstrack I am most familiar with at Roundhay Park in Leeds is banked at both ends, a legacy of the age of the track - it was constructed in 1894! Richmond (North Yorkshire) also has a banked grasstrack, but I am not currently aware of any others. I say the track is usually flat, the track used for the Cumbrian Games in Ambleside is notorious as being steep enough to get you riding out of the saddle going up one side and holding the bike back enough that you can get round the turn going down the other.

The bikes used on grass are basically track bikes with greater clearance to allow the use of cycle cross knobbly tyres, usually around 32 or 33mm in width, with different tyre patterns available depending on whether the grass is long or short or recently cut, whether it is wet or dry and whether there is a fair amount of mud around. Being track bikes, there is just the one gear, with a fixed wheel sprocket and no brakes! Some leagues and meetings allow children in the Under 12 age groups to use standard cycle cross bikes or mountain bikes with gears, brakes, etc to allow a less expensive entry to the sport, as most of the kids who are interested will have some variation on these already. This is certainly the case at Roundhay where all the U12s race on 'cross or mountain bikes, to the extent that we sometimes have kids who are just passing through the park with their parents signing up and racing that very evening!

The races are generally some variation on either "Sprint" or "Endurance". At Roundhay, where our lap is around 400m (it varies depending on ground conditions, current weather and who is marking it out!) we vary between 1 lap sprint races and longer endurance races depending on age group - Under 8s will have a 1 lap scratch race, older age groups get progressively longer races - the adults will have 3 or 4 lap scratch races. We also have handicap races, where the handicapper tries to line the riders up for the start with the aim of getting all the riders to cross the line at the same time - it happens more often than the judging team would like! At the end of the night, we generally stick in an "Unknown Distance" race, where the Chief Commissaire (usually me!) decides how many laps they are going to race once the race has started, so the ringing of the bell for the last lap is a surprise to everyone (including me sometimes!!)

Hope this helps those who were interested. My experience is as a Regional Commissaire for Track Racing, I am the usual Chief Commissaire for both the West Riding Grasstrack League at Roundhay and York Track League (Outdoor 250m Tarmac Velodrome)

Any questions, feel free to ask!

Dazzler
 
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LSWR Cavalier

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Very good, seems a bit like cyclo-cross where a lot depends on the weather and state of the ground. Much better to watch than professional tours that pass by in a few seconds. Looks like a good traditional 'amateur'* popular sport.
* meant very positively

On a conventional cycle racing track the curves are banked but on grass track they are not, does that limit speed?

And what fixed gear ratio is used (obviously a range!)?
 

dazzler

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Very good, seems a bit like cyclo-cross where a lot depends on the weather and state of the ground. Much better to watch than professional tours that pass by in a few seconds. Looks like a good traditional 'amateur'* popular sport.
* meant very positively
Oh, it's definitely amateur in the best definition of the word, no one ever got rich from grasstrack, including the organisers! To run an event all you need is a suitably large, flat field, some form of measuring implements and white paint to mark it out and some small pegs with little flags on to mark the inside of the track, oh, and some riders and a commissaire or two!

On a conventional cycle racing track the curves are banked but on grass track they are not, does that limit speed?
It can limit speed, although that's more a function of the grip in the chosen tyres and ground conditions on the day. It can be (slightly) humorous if someone gets a bit too leaned over on inappropriate tyres. It's a lot more humorous if I don't have to fill in an accident/incident report form for British Cycling HQ, obviously! :D

(Mildly funny anecdote time: One year at York Cycle Rally grasstrack on a recently mowed flat field, a kid turned up with his track bike for the day's racing, first race: one lap time trial. The only problem was that the previous time he had used the bike was at Manchester Velodrome, indoors, on a wooden track and he had forgotten to change the tyres! His tyres were as bald as a recently shaved coot! He managed to get most of the way round the track before sliding out and being unceremoniously dumped on the ground, much to the dismay of the judging team who all had money on him not making it round the first corner!! He wasn't hurt, so after he managed to borrow a spare set of tyres from a friend, we allowed him to have another, more successful, attempt.)

And what fixed gear ratio is used (obviously a range!)?
Erm, I couldn't tell you exactly, but according to a good friend of mine (now a BC National Track Team Coach) you would use a lower gear than for hard track, as it's a lot more difficult to turn a gear on grass. The track bikes we have at work for use on tarmac have a 48x18 gear, which equates to roughly 72" if you are a gear inch user, just to give you a rough figure.
Riders will use a higher gear for 1-lap sprints than they would for multiple lap endurance races, my friend mentioned above would use something in the region of 100" or more for a sprint on grass, which is way higher than I would be able to turn. Which is probably why he is a multiple 400m and 800m national grasstrack champion and I am not! :E:E

(Under International rules, Under 16s and below are required to use lower gears to prevent damage to growing joints and even up competition between people of the same age group who are growing at different rates. To be honest, the only time I have checked gears at grasstrack has been at national championships. Most, if not all, kids in an age group will hit a gear they can't turn over well before they hit the UCI gear limit for their age group, which is set for hard tracks, naturally.)
 

Techniquest

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Thanks for this thread, it sounds like I'm going to enjoy following this. Until the Olympics in Tokyo, I hadn't watched track cycling and I honestly thought I wouldn't enjoy it. However, it turned out that I love track cycling and want to have a go myself! I recently-ish found out Manchester's velodrome does taster sessions for £17.50 an hour, and that's mighty tempting.

I've got no bike terribly suited for track cycling, my beast (a Ridgeback Speed M hybrid/touring bike) would probably manage reasonably well but it's definitely not designed for that sort of thing!

I watched the UCI World Track Cycling Championships recently too, I rather enjoyed that. The victory ceremony music I wasn't a huge fan of, but then when it's compared to the wonderful music used for the Tokyo 2020 Olympics not much is going to come even close. On a related note, my good gravy didn't they butcher the British national anthem! I was wondering how they'd do it when Katie Archibald took the podium, and what a performance that was in the omnium, and I was disappointed by what I heard.

Let's not mention my failure to understand giving the men flowers for those on podium places as well as the women, what an unusual idea!

Sticking briefly with discussing all manner of cycling, I was surprised how much I enjoyed the mountain biking at the Olympics, that was good fun. Even the BMX'ing, not really my cup of tea, wasn't bad although I didn't follow it as much as I could have. The road racing was good too, and that was what I expected to enjoy the most. To come away with enjoying track cycling, well I was not expecting that and I'm absolutely gutted I'm not going to see it at the Commonwealth Games in 2022. I applied for tickets of course, but didn't get any :(

As for grasstrack racing, it sounds rather funky. Whether or not I'd give it a go I don't know, I'd certainly enjoy watching it though from the sounds of things.

All this talk of cycling is making me want to get out on my beast and go for a spin. The weather is dry, so it would be silly not to. I must put some oil on the drivetrain though, got new parts fitted yesterday and forgot to oil it all up before going out!
 

LSWR Cavalier

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There are so many different types of cycle sport, I think one hardly needs any other sports.

Today the hill-climb championship was held on Winnats Pass. Next is cyclo-cross, great to watch. Depending on the weather and state of the ground competitors shoulder their cycles and run up down and the hills, or they ride through the muck and get covered in mud and clag.

@dazzler I remember the gears, 76.*" for schoolboys, 86.*" for juniors. Got a lower single gear than 76" now, but I am a veteran (over 40 years old).
 

dazzler

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Aye, we've got a round of the Yorkshire points series cycle cross at work in a fortnight. Thankfully it's promoted by the CX section of my club, so my input should be exactly zero, hopefully. That said, a couple of years ago, we had a round of the National Trophy CX, which was fun, especially when we (my boss and I) routed the course round the grass bank on the outside of the velodrome - off camber grass at about 45 degrees to the horizontal! Nice! Well, I say grass, after a week of rain the first race turned anything grassy into a quagmire. :D :D :D I wound up as part of the judging team noting down rider numbers as they passed over the line (in case there was a malfunction of the chip timing system), which is not easy when *all* the riders are a uniform shade of "MUD" - including their race numbers!

In the rules these days, gears are expressed in metres of development rather than inches (Makes it easier to roll out on the ground, but I still don't have a clue what it equates to in real life!) My fixed wheel road bike (winter riding and year round commuting) generally runs a 68" gear, but I live in York and it's flat here! (I'm also a veteran, V50 in CX terminology ;))
 

JohnMcL7

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There was a local series of CX races here which I found a lot of fun since you could just turn up, race for a bit and go home unlike endurance races and they had a good atmosphere so no problems joining with my fat bike which is pretty much the opposite of a CX bike. Hard going in the sections where the bike needed carried especially up a number of steps but its ability to go through heavy mud worked well especially given how the tracks get really torn up. I've been meaning to find another CX series to take part in but sometimes roadies can take these things a bit too seriously which I'm not interested in.

There's a brutal 24 hour race up here known as the Strathpuffer which I swore I'd never do again as I had a really rough time with it last time but there's always that little thought at the back of my head I should give it another go to hope it goes better.

When we weren't allowed group rides during lockdown I cracked and bought some smart rollers which have been great for training especially very long lengths during winter when the days were short and the weather was poor. There's a good road race up here all the way round Loch Ness which is generally not a safe route normally but it's a closed road race so it's a great route to do without cars. The one I've been fancying for a couple of years is the Rad Am Ring in Germany which is a 24 hour road race round the Nurburgring which I've driven round in a car but it's all over so quick I think it would be amazing to see it cycling and take it in properly.
 

LSWR Cavalier

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I fancy watching cyclo-cross but not riding it.

Looks like there may be a bit more cycling at the next Olympics. There was trouble at the modern pentathlon, riders and horses are paired at random and do not know each other, someone beat her horse after it refused to jump. So the format is to be changed, next time people shall be riding bicycles instead of horses.
 

dazzler

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I fancy watching cyclo-cross but not riding it.
I like watching CX, definitely don't want to ride it. Part of that is the need for (at least) two bikes, a pressure washer and a pit crew to be even in the remotest bit competitive. That said, I quite fancy Summer CX, which happens around the Yorkshire area. The courses are generally rock solid for that, so you can get away with one bike most of the time (and it's a lot less competitive, especially up the V50+ age range where I hang out!) :D

Looks like there may be a bit more cycling at the next Olympics. There was trouble at the modern pentathlon, riders and horses are paired at random and do not know each other, someone beat her horse after it refused to jump. So the format is to be changed, next time people shall be riding bicycles instead of horses.
That was one of the German team coaches who punched the horse as it refused to jump several fences!! Given that the rider in question was in the gold medal position at the time and dropped to 31st as a result, I guess he felt justified! He was sent home in disgrace and barred by the International Olympic Committee (Quite rightly!)

The use of bikes was reported briefly in the cycling press around the time of the Modern Pentathlon committee meeting to discuss and decide this. The pentathlon traditionalists are up in arms about this as it "Isn't traditional", completely overlooking the fact that Modern Pentathlon is a modern construct to get a modern multi-event discipline into the Olympics. First held in 1912, for the record.
If Modern Pentathlon was really strict about the event being the traditional "Five agilities to be exhibited by knights of the realm" they'd insist on the swimming event still being conducted in plate armour!! I'd pay to see that!!

I wonder if they'll be required to bring their own bikes (or pinch one off their national cycling organisation) or whether the bikes will be randomly allocated? Randomly allocated would be "interesting" - a 5'4" tall athlete on a 25" frame and a 6'3" athlete on a 15" frame? :E:E
 

Techniquest

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Ooh can you imagine the dread you'd get on an allocated bike system? Ugh, no thanks, just the thought of trying to ride a bike wrongly sized is enough to raise an eyebrow!

Cleared 4,000 miles the other day on my bike, and I'm a couple of days behind updating my mileage log but I should be over 4,050 by now. Considering I only got my beast on 5th January, I think that's good going :E Celebrated 4,000 miles with a sugary cup of tea :lol: 5,000 miles may call for a bigger celebration!

Still not looked up the velodrome experience sessions, I will try to do so tonight I reckon!
 

LSWR Cavalier

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@Techniquest
Perhaps you could model yourself on Tommy Godwin, he did about 330 km daily average for a year. You are further than me, I am aiming for 3000 km this year.

I think the modern pentathlon cyclists could have machines of the right size but to level the playing field I suggest 81" fixed for all on an undulating 40 km course. That should sort out those used to letting a horse do the work.
 
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