Danger, evil nuclear trains will kill us all - media story

[Sadsmileyface]

Now that's what I call a sticky situation!

 

[43167]

Clearly a quite day for the MP in question.

 

[mindfeeder]

Jesus, hardly a bloody secret is it? Any trainspotter worth their salt knows flask trains are the best bet for some classic 37 action!

 

[fgwrich]

The story in Sunderland a few years back only came about as there was a problem with the brakes on one of the wagons and Sunderland station had to be evacuated. I do remember a few years back an article in The Sun or something similar where a reporter had been able to get close to one at a depot, but this story takes the biscuit.

That'd be the story by The Daily Mirror - A story which really did take the proverbial biscuit! One of their so called reporters some how ended up in Willesden - EWS Days i think, and strapped a Tupperware box onto the side of a flask wagon...i say strapped, actually they only used Gaffer Tape! This of course, being the Daily Mirror, had to exaggerate the truth to the point where, again with the articles by Greenpeace, becomes a totally unrealistic and rather laughable piece of journalistic carp…

Perhaps the Birmingham Mail would like to go on a Fact setting course, But hang on, this is journalism though…never let the facts get in the way of a good story…or reality it seems!

Nuclear Flasks even run through London – plenty of videos on the internet, so what makes the Birmingham Mail so concerned, so protective of Birmingham itself, afterall – it’s not as if they’re sitting in New Street for hours on end are they? And even then, as we know from the poor Peak test – the flasks themselves are dam well solidly built enough too withstand any threats/derailments!

Anyway, this is only one flask wagon, probably on a Power Station to Sellafield move… don’t forget there’s the submarine waste travelling by rail too – what would the MP say about that…should we have no submarines running at all, and no defences? Or should that go by road too? The ever safe road where nothings ever reported, no accidents whatsoever – unlike our bad bad unsafe railways, as several newspapers like to think…

Article = Over exaggerated carp...

 

[LE Greys]

Guess you haven't looked at the news today then!!!! hock:

Nasty!!!

Now carting hundreds of tons of flammable liquid around in an environment that might contain passengers really is dangerous, yet we don't see protests outside fuel depots (well, not counting climate change). People think that anything to do with nuclear reactions is witchcraft rather than simple physics. Witchcraft sparks witch hunts.

 

[OuterDistant]

The Birmingham Mail might also like to know that there are literally dozens of sites in the city that store thousands of gallons of poisonous, highly flammable liquid that terrorists would dearly love to blow up:

 

[bnsf734]

Jesus, hardly a bloody secret is it? Any trainspotter worth their salt knows flask trains are the best bet for some classic 37 action!

Indeed, I was walking back from the pub the other night crossing the WCML by Nuneaton station. Just at that moment a pair of 37's left platform 5 southbound on a flask. The subsequent thrash brought back some memories.

Perhaps I should have informed the local MP and the press about this shocking fact!!!

Calv

 

[jp4712]

Just a point of correction, it was the old CEGB (Cental Electricity Generating Board) and not BNFL that organised the crash - I know, I worked for BNFL at the time. The flask was owned by CEGB (ownership of those Magnox flasks varied, some were BNFL-owned, some CEGB-owned and some by other customers) but refurbed by us. It had already been dropped onto a solid concrete floor with no ill-effects - I can't recall whether it was 10m, 20m or 30m but it was quite a height for a 50-tonne lump of iron. Oh, and it had been put in the middle of a fire for an hour or so.

Trust me, that crash was NOT rigged and the 46's engine had NOT been unbolted. Oh, and the flask was arranged so that the coupler would hit the most vulnerable point, i.e. the joint between the flask body and the lid.

Sheesh, the idiocies that drive some so-called 'leaders of society'...

Paul

 

[gordonthemoron]

the media also seem to think that there is a risk of a nuclear accident were some terrorists able to crash an ariliner into a reactor. This is also a load of rubbish, an airliner could not possibly rupture a reactor

 

[DarloRich]

The Birmingham Mail might also like to know that there are literally dozens of sites in the city that store thousands of gallons of poisonous, highly flammable liquid that terrorists would dearly love to blow up:

Shocking - The Paper should bring this to a wider audidence - imagine if terrorists got hold of this kind of explosive force! Whree is the MP? surley he should be calling for an investgation into this!

 

[YesToHS2]

Should I worry, The NDA is planning to build a nuclear material handling rail head at Capenhurst. It's only 10 miles away I think I'm going to have to move.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I'm surprised that there isn't already one at Capenhurst

 

[scotsman]

Should I worry, The NDA is planning to build a nuclear material handling rail head at Capenhurst. It's only 10 miles away I think I'm going to have to move.

Nah. They built a low level waste dump and decommissioned Nuclear subs just down the road from me, I never knew! There's also yet to be an accident!

 

[GB]

The chance of a nuclear flask train derailing is slim, the chance of it derailing to the extent it may leak are virtualy zero.

 

[jp4712]

Should I worry, The NDA is planning to build a nuclear material handling rail head at Capenhurst. It's only 10 miles away I think I'm going to have to move.

There has been a uranium enrichment plant at Capenhurst (like the one the Iranians have built, but much bigger) since the late 1940s - it's a bit late to consider moving now!

Paul

 

[YesToHS2]

There has been a uranium enrichment plant at Capenhurst (like the one the Iranians have built, but much bigger) since the late 1940s - it's a bit late to consider moving now!

Paul

, I'm off to Wales, oh no it's full off old nuclear plants too.

I was surprised there was no railhead too, the pant sits right next to a line with directs connections to the WCML. They have been using truck containers to transport products in an out. They are planning to ramp up there operations though, Half of Capenhurst is now a nuclear waster re-packaging plant.

Check out the images of MOX and HEX barrels piled high in ground level warehouses. http://www.sellafieldsites.com/UserFiles/File/new_brochures/Capenhurst_site_aw.pdf

With that, Ineos (ICI) and Stanlow just down the road I don't stand a chance!

 

[scotsman]

, I'm off to Wales, oh no it's full off old nuclear plants too.

Ok! The SNP is determined to smoke all the English out and have banned new nukes up here. So, you're fairly safe if you keep away from Ayrshire, East Lothian, the Borders and Caithness.

 

[yorkie]

I thought an opening line of Dear Mr McCabe, are you perhaps the most cretinously stupid person ever to walk the face of the earth? Well done for pointing out the existance of these trains to the terrorist groups you are so worried about! Congratualtions! You can put a nice new star sticker on your al-queda helpers name badge!

That's not constructive. There is nothing in the original article that helps a terrorist. This statement is just as extreme as the article! And abusive. So it would get dismissed as gibber, which it is.

A nonsense quote in the article is:

[QUOTE="Mr Harte]"It would be useful for residents to know if these things were regularly travelling through Birmingham and how exposed they might be"[/QUOTE]my question is what "use" would people have for this information? The only "use" would be to avoid the area, if they're that scared. Are people really going to avoid being near a railway line if a nuclear train is due? By that logic, you'd have to avoid all roads that might be used by cars, as many people are hit by cars every day, so that's a far bigger risk. So you may as well not leave your home for the rest of your life, or live in a cave:roll:

 

[moonrakerz]

Having spent some years in VERY close proximity to things nuclear, both peaceful and not so peaceful, I am afraid I just let tripe like this wash over me, it is born of sheer ignorance fed by a few anti-nuclear zealots.

I just wonder if this same MP realises that the granite kitchen worktop that he claimed for on his expenses is throwing out far more radiation than one of these flasks ever would :roll::roll:

 

[jon0844]

The article shows how poorly researched it was, still as the old press mantra goes "never let the facts get in the way of a good story"!

Except the idea is to then to make it a good story, so they failed there too.

 

[gordonthemoron]

#45, isn't that a breach of the Official Secrets Act?

 

[DarloRich]

That's not constructive. There is nothing in the original article that helps a terrorist. This statement is just as extreme as the article! And abusive. So it would get dismissed as gibber, which it is.

Agreed - but it is no more stupid that the MP making his statements. I get annoyed by people who really should know better spouting rubbish. Engagement of brain before mouth might be useful. But local MP's are keen to get a quote in the paper as often as possible. I am sure he will have got a briefing on things by the appropriate mandarin in due course. (It may be if interest to unsavoury characters as they might not have known about these workings – not sure how you would steal any of the material or create problems – the flask container walls alone are something like 14 inches thick)

Although these movements are well known to people like us I imagine it might come as a shock to the general public. However rail is the fastest and safest way to shift this stuff. Perhaps BNFL (or whatever they are called today) should do what they did when I was at school. We used to go to Hartlepool and Sellafield at least once a year and got the tour and the lesson from the staff. One question was always about transport of waste and materials which led nicely into that video of the Peak/flask interface.

Can anyone suggest a better way to move this stuff than by rail? Road? Air? Sea? I cant see a better, safer, quicker or more convenient and quiet way of transporting this material. Imagine the outcry if it was trucked up the M6 every few days!

 

[GB]

#45, isn't that a breach of the Official Secrets Act?

Only if he has signed it.

 

[S19]

Agreed - but it is no more stupid that the MP making his statements. I get annoyed by people who really should know better spouting rubbish. Engagement of brain before mouth might be useful. But local MP's are keen to get a quote in the paper as often as possible. I am sure he will have got a briefing on things by the appropriate mandarin in due course. (It may be if interest to unsavoury characters as they might not have known about these workings – not sure how you would steal any of the material or create problems – the flask container walls alone are something like 14 inches thick)

Although these movements are well known to people like us I imagine it might come as a shock to the general public. However rail is the fastest and safest way to shift this stuff. Perhaps BNFL (or whatever they are called today) should do what they did when I was at school. We used to go to Hartlepool and Sellafield at least once a year and got the tour and the lesson from the staff. One question was always about transport of waste and materials which led nicely into that video of the Peak/flask interface.

Can anyone suggest a better way to move this stuff than by rail? Road? Air? Sea? I cant see a better, safer, quicker or more convenient and quiet way of transporting this material. Imagine the outcry if it was trucked up the M6 every few days!

It's completely safe as it is. By road would take too long, as with the weight of the flasks with fuel in they couldn't exceed a very very slow speed on the motorway. Can't remember if it's 20 or 40mph.

It's more a case of ignorance on the MPs part. Maybe he should have spoken to his peers that actually have nuclear sites within their constituencies. I know our local MP is completely pro nuclear. We already have four reactors and have more land that has been 'selected' by the government for new build.

You'll also find out that any site visits now are quite rare. I'm not sure when this came about, but I think it's something to do with the way the world and terrorism has gone over the past ten years or so.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Only if he has signed it.

The official secrets act affects everyone, whether they've signed it or not. I signed it ages ago but that's probably expired now

 

[moonrakerz]

The official secrets act affects everyone, whether they've signed it or not.

Correct - it is the Law of the land and affects everyone.

"Signing" the Act is merely done as a reminder that the post they are employed in involves access to material with a higher security grading than most other positions. You sign it if you are in the military or work in that field, but not if you work for Tesco, for example .
Often when leaving a post of this nature personnel are asked to "sign" again - not to relieve them of this duty, but to remind them that anything they learnt/saw in that post is still classified and that they must continue to treat it as such.

 

[gordonthemoron]

unfortunately I've probably blabbed about rather a lot which happened when I worked at Windscale (Sellafield)

 

[Old Timer]

The story in Sunderland a few years back only came about as there was a problem with the brakes on one of the wagons and Sunderland station had to be evacuated. I do remember a few years back an article in The Sun or something similar where a reporter had been able to get close to one at a depot, but this story takes the biscuit.

For years I have found the whole approach to incidents involving Nuclear trains to be an absolute arrant over reaction.

A wagon simply derailing becomes a Dangerous Goods Emergency, even a dragging brake requires half of the Nuclear decontamination units of the fire brigade to turn up.

Such stupid reactions by the Industry - this started in BR days (and probably brought about by the Trade Unions if the truth be found) and has translated forward into todays Railway even though tests have shown it is physically impossible for any form of railway accident to damage a flask sufficiently to cause a leak to occur.

All we do is give amunition to the short-sighted, those who have their own particular axe to grind, and headline seeking MPs and similar public officials.

I remember in the 1970s and 1980s Manchester City Council declaring themselves as a Nuclear Free Zone, and stating that they had received assurances from the Soviet Union that they would not target Manchester in a nuclear strike in return.

Move forward some 30 odd years and papers reveal that Manchester was never taken off any target list, and that the Soviets simply made good propoganda material from it all.

 

[S19]

For years I have found the whole approach to incidents involving Nuclear trains to be an absolute arrant over reaction.

A wagon simply derailing becomes a Dangerous Goods Emergency, even a dragging brake requires half of the Nuclear decontamination units of the fire brigade to turn up.

Such stupid reactions by the Industry - this started in BR days (and probably brought about by the Trade Unions if the truth be found) and has translated forward into todays Railway even though tests have shown it is physically impossible for any form of railway accident to damage a flask sufficiently to cause a leak to occur.

All we do is give amunition to the short-sighted, those who have their own particular axe to grind, and headline seeking MPs and similar public officials.

I remember in the 1970s and 1980s Manchester City Council declaring themselves as a Nuclear Free Zone, and stating that they had received assurances from the Soviet Union that they would not target Manchester in a nuclear strike in return.

Move forward some 30 odd years and papers reveal that Manchester was never taken off any target list, and that the Soviets simply made good propoganda material from it all.

It is the same as anything involving nuclear. It is seen as 'special'. Which it is.

Better to be safer than sorry.

 

[Old Timer]

It is the same as anything involving nuclear. It is seen as 'special'. Which it is.

Better to be safer than sorry.

Then please tell me what form of accident will lead to a breach of the container ?

Some years back I was the BR representative on one of the Regional Emergency Planning Committees, and I can tell you now that a rail nuclear incident was not even listed as a remote being of likelihood.