Dangerous boarding procedures at Euston

[londonmidland]

Whilst waiting for my train, the 16:46 from Euston to Crewe, passengers were told not to wait around the platform entrances and were to told to wait in the concourse, by the third party security officers.

At around 16:40, the platform was announced and hurds of people immediately started running down to the platform, clashing with people around the food outlets.

It is quite literally an accident waiting to happen, with the amount of people tripping over each other. Even on the platform itself, passengers were running to the doors eager to get a seat.

The boarding procedure here at Euston really needs to be looked at. On multiple occasions, services are announced far too late, leading to the infamous ‘Euston scrum’.

 

[QueensCurve]

Whilst waiting for my train, the 16:46 from Euston to Crewe, passengers were told not to wait around the platform entrances and were to told to wait in the concourse, by the third party security officers.

At around 16:40, the platform was announced and hurds of people immediately started running down to the platform, clashing with people around the food outlets.

It is quite literally an accident waiting to happen, with the amount of people tripping over each other. Even on the platform itself, passengers were running to the doors eager to get a seat.

The boarding procedure here at Euston really needs to be looked at. On multiple occasions, services are announced far too late, leading to the infamous ‘Euston scrum’.

ORR apparently have issued an Improvement Notice about this.

 

[All Line Rover]

When this happens, the departure time needs to be delayed to allow sufficient time for orderly boarding.

This is still an almost daily occurence.

 

[yorkie]

I know a bit more about this than has been published, and the actions of NR Euston, and the way they try to sweep things under the carpet, are absolutely shocking.

I doubt anyone can make NR Euston listen; if they won't listen to the ORR, who will they listen to?

 

[ExRes]

Just out of interest have the Health and Safety Executive been involved in this? if they were to be would they be able to actually close the station until improvements had been carried out?

 

[Dr Hoo]

Just out of interest have the Health and Safety Executive been involved in this? if they were to be would they be able to actually close the station until improvements had been carried out?

I thought that the ORR/HMRI was solely responsible for ‘railway’ safety now. The period when the HMRI was part of the HSE didn’t seem to be very successful, with loss of industry-specific focus.

There should be no ‘double/alternative’ jeopardy. (“Oh, we thought that YOU were ensuring safety at Euston now.”)

 

[cactustwirly]

Whilst waiting for my train, the 16:46 from Euston to Crewe, passengers were told not to wait around the platform entrances and were to told to wait in the concourse, by the third party security officers.

At around 16:40, the platform was announced and hurds of people immediately started running down to the platform, clashing with people around the food outlets.

It is quite literally an accident waiting to happen, with the amount of people tripping over each other. Even on the platform itself, passengers were running to the doors eager to get a seat.

The boarding procedure here at Euston really needs to be looked at. On multiple occasions, services are announced far too late, leading to the infamous ‘Euston scrum’.

Is this not the same as other London terminals such as Paddington, where you have express services announced less than 10 minutes until departure.

 

[Bluejays]

I actually had a taste of what this can be like at paddington the other day. Found it bloody scary. One second I was taking a sip of hot chocolate , the next a girl who appeared to be about 6'2 (think the initial shock added a few inches ) was running straight at me at what can only be described as olympic sprinters pace. I just managed to jink out the way while knocking out a pretty aggrieved John McEnroe impression ' are you f*cking serious' and managed to only get clouted by her bag rather than her. Her mate, who has been running behind her stopped to be fair and apologised, 'sorry, we're used to euston' was the comment.

If that girl doesn't play rugby in the back row she's bloody wasted is all I can say. Because in years of playing I don't think there's that many times I've feared being totalled quite like that (although to be fair I don't think I've ever played with a hot chocolate in hand).

Luckily I was prewarned what Euston was like, before the few occasions I've been there. But God knows what it must be like for vulnerable/elderly people being stuck in a whole flood of people charging. Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people end up with longer/more convoluted journeys because they're not willing to deal with the Euston scrum

 

[pokemonsuper9]

This is why I always get to the platform early, luckily I've not had any problems with staff yet.
Often I'm at the top of the platform quite a bit before my train arrives.

 

[etr221]

Are there any standards laid down (expressly or implicitly) for how long it should take for passengers to board a train - from wherever they are expected to wait (on concourse (or whatever), on platform,..), comfortably or as a minimum, and so how far in advance trains should be indicated/announced?

For the case described by the OP - the 1646 not being announced until 1640, with passengers told to wait on the concourse - what is the position of someone - unwilling or unable to walk/run at the required speed - who is unable to board in that timeframe? How long will (or should) the train be held for people to board?

 

[Bletchleyite]

ORR apparently have issued an Improvement Notice about this.

I wonder if these new shouty men with megaphones are a supposed improvement?

They are, of course, not.

Fortunately they didn't attempt to tell
me not to go and wait on 8-11.

 

[Bluejays]

I wonder if these new shouty men with megaphones are a supposed improvement?

They are, of course, not.

Fortunately they didn't attempt to tell
me not to go and wait on 8-11.

In a situation where people are already rushing megaphones seem like the last thing you'd want to add into the mix. Do you think it's a case that 'the rush' is almost wired into the management/staff there aswell, as just something that happens and needs to be managed. You'd think there must be some way of reducing/stopping it if people actually took it seriously

 

[Bletchleyite]

In a situation where people are already rushing megaphones seem like the last thing you'd want to add into the mix. Do you think it's a case that 'the rush' is almost wired into the management/staff there aswell, as just something that happens and needs to be managed. You'd think there must be some way of reducing/stopping it if people actually took it seriously

The fix is fairly easy.

For LNR services which aren't serviced at Euston, stop suppressing the platforms. They weren't in Silverlink days (there was even a big sheet of paper down in the Tube station with them on) and it was absolutely fine.

For Avanti, make it easier to get last minute reservations with seat selection as per LNER, at TVMs and on your phone. This means far fewer people have a reason to run. As a result Kings Cross is nowhere near as bad.

 

[irish_rail]

I've experienced this issue at both Euston and Paddington. And every time it is caused by ridiculously late boarding. The inability for TOC controllers to perform set swaps these days seems a driving factor. Back in "the day" if an incoming service was coming in late, another set would be used instead. These days there is a reluctance to swap sets about, as getting a set to finish at the right depot is seen as more important than the railways raisin d'etre , the passenger.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've experienced this issue at both Euston and Paddington. And every time it is caused by ridiculously late boarding. The inability for TOC controllers to perform set swaps these days seems a driving factor. Back in "the day" if an incoming service was coming in late, another set would be used instead. These days there is a reluctance to swap sets about, as getting a set to finish at the right depot is seen as more important than the railways raisin d'etre , the passenger.

Paddington's speciality is calling a train when another one on the same island has just arrived and is tipping out. That really is dangerous.

 

[james_the_xv]

I've experienced this issue at both Euston and Paddington. And every time it is caused by ridiculously late boarding. The inability for TOC controllers to perform set swaps these days seems a driving factor. Back in "the day" if an incoming service was coming in late, another set would be used instead. These days there is a reluctance to swap sets about, as getting a set to finish at the right depot is seen as more important than the railways raisin d'etre , the passenger.

Given sets being at wrong depots can cause issues the next day, this is hardly a decision taken lightly. Especially if the set is due for maintenance (e.g. only to go to a depot with a wheel lathe as has flat spots). Easily could end up with a diagram the next morning peak uncovered, if not a full day if not properly considered with due care.

 

[bramling]

I've experienced this issue at both Euston and Paddington. And every time it is caused by ridiculously late boarding. The inability for TOC controllers to perform set swaps these days seems a driving factor. Back in "the day" if an incoming service was coming in late, another set would be used instead. These days there is a reluctance to swap sets about, as getting a set to finish at the right depot is seen as more important than the railways raisin d'etre , the passenger.

The problem is that this may well simply defer a problem rather than avoid it altogether. A set swap to avoid a delay may well mean a train is unavailable the next day.

 

[Russel]

Has anyone ever found out why NR supress the platform numbers at Euston until the last minute?

The xx:46 LNWR to Crewe usually arrives at about xx:24, so it has a good 20 minute turn around so there is no need to hide the platform number until a few minutes before departure.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Has anyone ever found out why NR supress the platform numbers at Euston until the last minute?

The xx:46 LNWR to Crewe usually arrives at about xx:24, so it has a good 20 minute turn around so there is no need to hide the platform number until a few minutes before departure.

Indeed. Also, when exactly are Euston departure platform numbers "announced" on apps?

 

[james_the_xv]

Indeed. Also, when exactly are Euston departure platform numbers "announced" on apps?

RTT has the planned platform, and will also display 'At Platform' when the signal berth is assigned iirc.

 

[londonmidland]

Indeed. Also, when exactly are Euston departure platform numbers "announced" on apps?

The NRE app is awful for this, for several London terminals, as well as stations outside of London. Sometimes it doesn’t even state the platforms.

I use the Railboard app, which is pretty accurate most of the time. It gives the ‘forecast’ platform wel in advance. Obviously you should check the station boards prior to boarding, just to make sure.

 

[TPO]

Is this not the same as other London terminals such as Paddington, where you have express services announced less than 10 minutes until departure.

Yes. Although time was when there was a "commitment" to call long distance trains minimum 15 min before departure at Paddington. Been a while since they (mostly) achievd that though.

Paddington's speciality is calling a train when another one on the same island has just arrived and is tipping out. That really is dangerous.

In the days when I regularly travelled out of Padd in the evening peak, the trick was to wait on the overbridge half way down the platforms, watch the trains being prepared and edging closer to the most likely barrier, as soon as the platform was called through the barrier and on. Being already halfway down the train was a distinct advantage in the fight to get a seat.

TPO

 

[Horizon22]

I've experienced this issue at both Euston and Paddington. And every time it is caused by ridiculously late boarding. The inability for TOC controllers to perform set swaps these days seems a driving factor. Back in "the day" if an incoming service was coming in late, another set would be used instead. These days there is a reluctance to swap sets about, as getting a set to finish at the right depot is seen as more important than the railways raisin d'etre , the passenger.

That’s not really the case at all, there’s a lot more restrictions on doing a swap than there used to be.

Late running & disruption will of course lead to late boarding at a number of London terminals as the turnaround time is eaten into.

Yes. Although time was when there was a "commitment" to call long distance trains minimum 15 min before departure at Paddington. Been a while since they (mostly) achievd that though.

Perfectly achievable if, again, the train service generally is running to time.

What has become more of an issue is a) shorter turnaround times and b) a worsening of communications / skills between platform teams and controllers in a timely manner about when a service is ready for boarding.

Trains are normally “handed over” for boarding but sometimes the call just isn’t made - a proactive controller will then just board it anyway or ask for clarification.

Euston is just another level though.

 

[RJ]

Euston has been like this for years with the stampedes. People who use the station are used to it and it will be difficult to change that behaviour.

One way to avoid them is to use the mobility assistance service or if you choose to see the world differently to most, realise the departure boards are not the only way to find out where your train will be and make your own plan to be at the train before the hordes descend.

 

[Horizon22]

Has anyone ever found out why NR supress the platform numbers at Euston until the last minute?

The xx:46 LNWR to Crewe usually arrives at about xx:24, so it has a good 20 minute turn around so there is no need to hide the platform number until a few minutes before departure.

Probably needs active posting by a station controller, and there’s likely some communication from the ground. Or it’s just become some sort of bad embedded practice as “that’s how it’s always done”.

 

[ScottGallagher]

What is the typical time for a turnaround for an Avanti train at Euston on a good day and apart from loading the catering and variable levels of cleaning tasks ,what else is taking place during this time?

I'm trying to understand what is preventing even slightly earlier boarding as quite rightly people are predicting a serious accident due to the stampeding.

 

[dk1]

Been like this for at least the last 15 years or more. The scrum just gets the adrenaline going lol

 

[DJ_K666]

Probably needs active posting by a station controller, and there’s likely some communication from the ground. Or it’s just become some sort of bad embedded practice as “that’s how it’s always done”.

I use RTT these days as that way I can be near or on the platform as the train comes in and at door before it's called. I do believe the XX:46 Euston to Crewe splits in the platform, or it did when I last used it 4 years ago.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Probably needs active posting by a station controller, and there’s likely some communication from the ground. Or it’s just become some sort of bad embedded practice as “that’s how it’s always done”.

I'm fairly confident it's that.

 

[Western Sunset]

Don't want to do a set swap with an IET and incur £££ from Hitachi...