Dangerous boarding procedures at Euston

[londonmidland]

One thing I’ve noticed is that the main boards and announcements are out of sync with each other.

Sometimes trains will be announced a good few minutes before it is advertised on the screens, of which it’ll still give an approximate boarding time.

 

[Dr Hoo]

One thing I’ve noticed is that the main boards and announcements are out of sync with each other.

Sometimes trains will be announced a good few minutes before it is advertised on the screens, of which it’ll still give an approximate boarding time.

For clarification:

Is it the practice to announce all trains at Euston these days?

Are the announcements ‘live’ (I.e. human) or system-generated concatenated ‘speech’?

Thanks

 

[londonmidland]

For clarification:

Is it the practice to announce all trains at Euston these days?

Are the announcements ‘live’ (I.e. human) or system-generated concatenated ‘speech’?

Thanks

What I found tends to happen at Euston is that a manual announcement will be made pre-advertisement, advising passengers that the train is being prepared and not yet ready. An automated announcement then follows a few minutes later advertising the platform.

The issue at Euston is that there are so many lengthy pre-recorded messages, such as engineering work notices, that it takes over the auto P.A’s ‘slot’, when it is ready to announce the platform. So sometimes it’ll appear on the boards with no announcement.

I’d personally prefer if any pre-recorded message was cut off as soon as a train is ready to be advertised, with that taking priority over the P.A.

 

[Travelmonkey]

Yes, at least at an airport there is a seating area to sit whilst you wait for the buggy/transport to take you to the plane.

Oh they have that in Euston tbh the team in the passenger assist office have generally been good when I've been thru, although they don't get it right 100% of the time they are a resource stretched quite thin across their large termini,

 

[Blindtraveler]

Oh they have that in Euston tbh the team in the passenger assist office have generally been good when I've been thru, although they don't get it right 100% of the time they are a resource stretched quite thin across their large termini,

EUS is generally one of the better stations in London for assists, but as you say they are a very thinly stretched resource and you just know that if they're going to get it wrong and get it wrong spectacularly it will be when the sleeper arrives early and absolutely nobody's paying any attention to it


Their job is made much much harder by a lot of the other factors at play at this station, I will say this though, they are pretty good at taking you to your train the moment it's available for boarding or sometimes even a bit before which is a marked contrast to some other stations which are really not good for this
Of course no one will believe me writing on here about it, they will pile the criticism on because of Doug what's his face on YouTube who seems to go looking for trouble at every possible opportunity for stop the rugby scrum on the concourse does make it very very difficult for passengers whether on a buggy or on foot or being pushed in wheelchairs though and it's little wonder that the generally large and friendly family feeling of the staff doing the assists gets a tad hot under the collar at times

 

[Travelmonkey]

EUS is generally one of the better stations in London for assists, but as you say they are a very thinly stretched resource and you just know that if they're going to get it wrong and get it wrong spectacularly it will be when the sleeper arrives early and absolutely nobody's paying any attention to it


Their job is made much much harder by a lot of the other factors at play at this station, I will say this though, they are pretty good at taking you to your train the moment it's available for boarding or sometimes even a bit before which is a marked contrast to some other stations which are really not good for this
Of course no one will believe me writing on here about it, they will pile the criticism on because of Doug what's his face on YouTube who seems to go looking for trouble at every possible opportunity for stop the rugby scrum on the concourse does make it very very difficult for passengers whether on a buggy or on foot or being pushed in wheelchairs though and it's little wonder that the generally large and friendly family feeling of the staff doing the assists gets a tad hot under the collar at times

One thing I notice is some folks are happy go lucky with it and take a cést la vie attitude too when things go wrong and others are already on the phone to their lawyer before the train has even left the platform , although it comes to a point as someone whom is still fairly mobile I do feel a little guilty when my assistance rock's up with a wheelchair and someone with higher support needs than me is just getting on with things. Although pass assistance is like a little bypass hack I do think if I'm without luggage or day tripping it using the 350s (the voyager & pendalino steps are getting a bit too big for me) I'd deal with the fray especially if I've got someone with me. I do find Euston & tbh most London terminals stressful from a autistic perspective. I do think soke remediation for the concourse crowd would also side benefit those of us with additional needs.

 

[Snow1964]

Found an article on how AI has been trialled at Euston and Waterloo for crowd monitoring. Uses LIDAR

The Station Guardian platform, provided by Cumbria-based tech firm Createc, is based on light detection and ranging (LiDAR) technology – a type of remote sensor that uses lasers to measure distances. The development of the system was backed by monetary and programme support from the Defence and Security Accelerator (DASA) – a unit that sits within the Ministry of Defence with the remit of funding new defence and national security technologies.

DASA originally supported work on developing the tool as it had been identified as a potential means to help protect against the use of explosives in public spaces. Following several funding and development stages – and year-long trials at London Euston train station and Luton Airport – the tech has become geared towards more everyday concerns of managing the flow of people in busy transport hubs, according to an online post from DASA.

The MoD unit added that the platform now provides “machine learning to offer users a day-to-day system that notifies them of events requiring attention to help improve crowd management and safety, [which] could include notifications of suspicious activity, as well as incidents like a person falling, a malfunctioning escalator or elevator, or predications of how public transport delays can affect crowd flow”.

Network Rail to deploy AI-powered ‘crowd monitoring’ at Waterloo station

Automated security technology has been trialled at various transport hubs in recent years, having been developed by a Cumbrian SME backed by funding support from a Ministry of Defence agency Network Rail is to deploy artificial intelligence technology to monitor crowds at London Waterloo stat

www.publictechnology.net

 

[Belperpete]

Found an article on how AI has been trialled at Euston and Waterloo for crowd monitoring. Uses LIDAR

Network Rail to deploy AI-powered ‘crowd monitoring’ at Waterloo station

Automated security technology has been trialled at various transport hubs in recent years, having been developed by a Cumbrian SME backed by funding support from a Ministry of Defence agency Network Rail is to deploy artificial intelligence technology to monitor crowds at London Waterloo stat

www.publictechnology.net

The article states that it is for monitoring things that could affect crowd flow and gives a few specific examples, like detecting someone falling off a platform. In the precise, that seems to have got mangled into saying that it is for crowd monitoring - something very different and considerably more complex!

 

[PG]

The article states that it is for monitoring things that could affect crowd flow and gives a few specific examples, like detecting someone falling off a platform. In the precise, that seems to have got mangled into saying that it is for crowd monitoring - something very different and considerably more complex!

I can't see any mention of falling off a platform only a more general reference to a person falling, which I suspect means a fall within their own body height.

 

[DJ_K666]

I often went through Victoria, which us another  very busy station. Often youd get through the gatelines after a long hike past that cheese shop that smells of feet (Platforms 15-19 for Brighton) and often find the nextvtrain packed to the gunwhales. I usually let that go and grab a coffee and some munchies as I know the next fast train will arrive a few minutes after that busy one has left and I can wander down to the front and get my pick of the table seats. Thays how it used to work. I haven't had to use Southern in at least 5 years now. Thank goodness.

 

[Belperpete]

I often went through Victoria, which us another  very busy station. Often youd get through the gatelines after a long hike past that cheese shop that smells of feet (Platforms 15-19 for Brighton) and often find the nextvtrain packed to the gunwhales. I usually let that go and grab a coffee and some munchies as I know the next fast train will arrive a few minutes after that busy one has left and I can wander down to the front and get my pick of the table seats. Thays how it used to work. I haven't had to use Southern in at least 5 years now. Thank goodness.

And the central side concourse can get VERY packed with even slight disruption, say if a couple of services to the same destination are cancelled in the rush hour.

 

[modernrail]

At both Euston and Paddington I have a sneaky feeling a version of arrogance had creeped in over time. We will not announce this train until we are ready to no matter what the consequences. Passengers are to be treated with contempt at all times.

The better starting position is, we will move heaven and earth to announce this train at least 15 minutes before departure. Every time we don’t do that - we failed. Every time we fail, we will work out why and reduce the chances of it happening again.

Both stations seem to require a load of gate line staff who seem to be trained to make the whole thing worse. If you call a train less than 10 minutes before it is due to depart that gate line should be open. No checks. There is no time. If you dump two trains on the same gate line on arrival that gate line should be open. If you want it closed, you call it on time/manage your platforms better.

The attitude at both stations both in terms of calling trains and of the staff on the gate line stinks. East Midlands staff at St P have been sent to the same training course. Maximum obstruction - minimum competence. Somehow Kings Cross seems to manage with close to zero staff on the departure gate line and rarely any drama.

As for the point that comes up on here a lot. These trains are 80% ish reserved seating. Why on earth would you not get people on the platform ready to board if you are running late. Even if it isn’t, if the platform is otherwise empty why would you not do that. Absolutely nothing would be adversely affected by that approach.

 

[Meerkat]

At both Euston and Paddington I have a sneaky feeling a version of arrogance had creeped in over time. We will not announce this train until we are ready to no matter what the consequences. Passengers are to be treated with contempt at all times.

The better starting position is, we will move heaven and earth to announce this train at least 15 minutes before departure. Every time we don’t do that - we failed. Every time we fail, we will work out why and reduce the chances of it happening again.

Both stations seem to require a load of gate line staff who seem to be trained to make the whole thing worse. If you call a train less than 10 minutes before it is due to depart that gate line should be open. No checks. There is no time. If you dump two trains on the same gate line on arrival that gate line should be open. If you want it closed, you call it on time/manage your platforms better.

The attitude at both stations both in terms of calling trains and of the staff on the gate line stinks. East Midlands staff at St P have been sent to the same training course. Maximum obstruction - minimum competence. Somehow Kings Cross seems to manage with close to zero staff on the departure gate line and rarely any drama.

As for the point that comes up on here a lot. These trains are 80% ish reserved seating. Why on earth would you not get people on the platform ready to board if you are running late. Even if it isn’t, if the platform is otherwise empty why would you not do that. Absolutely nothing would be adversely affected by that approach.

Could they not let the reserved seat people onto the platform? They will spread out and won’t be rushing.
Notify by app on their phone if you don’t want a rush for the platforms.
Then you will reduce the number legging it to get an unreserved seat, and encourage seat reservations.

 

[43066]

East Midlands staff at St P have been sent to the same training course. Maximum obstruction - minimum competence. Somehow Kings Cross seems to manage with close to zero staff on the departure gate line and rarely any drama.

This doesn’t reflect my (very frequent) observations of the EMR gateline at all. It’s generally well controlled, given the limited space, and I’ve certainly never witnessed any “scrumming” of the type described on here.

I’ve also always found the Kings + gateline well staffed (a couple of them are ex EMR, incidentally!).

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

I was at Euston on Thursday, and because the train from Edinburgh that should have been going back to Glasgow was late, we were set swapped from an 11 car which should have been on platform 1 to 9 car on platform 13. (I’ve picked this up from OpenTrainTimes/RealTimeTrains, not information provided at Euston)

On the ground, what you saw was the train being announced with 8 minutes before departure, screens counting down four minutes to platform closure, and then the inevitable ticket checks at the barriers, and then finding that the train was in reverse formation, so everyone was unhappy they weren’t facing the way they expected. And then, to top it all off, a full ticket inspection as we left Euston!

 

[43066]

I was at Euston on Thursday, and because the train from Edinburgh that should have been going back to Glasgow was late, we were set swapped from an 11 car which should have been on platform 1 to 9 car on platform 13. (I’ve picked this up from OpenTrainTimes/RealTimeTrains, not information provided at Euston)

Presumably in this case the set swap was part of the reason for the late announcement? Clearly it’s far from ideal, and I don’t think anyone has suggested what the issue is at Euston causing this to happen so often?

It would be interesting to hear from any knowledgeable insiders.

 

[Meerkat]

Counting down four minutes when the rush is the operator’s fault is inexcusable and surely a H&S hazard?
As stations have official interchange times shouldn’t platform announcements be similar, and the train leaves late if it has to.

 

[modernrail]

This doesn’t reflect my (very frequent) observations of the EMR gateline at all. It’s generally well controlled, given the limited space, and I’ve certainly never witnessed any “scrumming” of the type described on here.

I’ve also always found the Kings + gateline well staffed (a couple of them are ex EMR, incidentally!).

I don’t use it that often, maybe I have just been unlucky.

Counting down four minutes when the rush is the operator’s fault is inexcusable and surely a H&S hazard?
As stations have official interchange times shouldn’t platform announcements be similar, and the train leaves late if it has to

Oh they love their new ticking time bomb toy at Euston. If they had their way I suspect they would announce the trains by telling you they have already left.

Things would change pretty quickly if somebody told them they must leave 15 minutes clear from announcing to closing the gate (10 for suburban). Nothing less than that is reasonable at Euston when announcement leads to walk, queue, ticket check, walk up to 11 carriages of platform length, queue to board, queue to sit down.

The only way for them to argue otherwise is to get people on the platform in advance. Then they could move to 5-10 minutes from opening the doors to departing and they could still close the gates early whilst being fair to passengers.

 

[exbrel]

"being fair to passengers" is not in Euston's methodology...

 

[Mag_seven]

I think we need to see the outcome of the ORR Improvement Notice before we discuss this issue any further.

Rail regulator requires crowd management improvements at Euston Station | Office of Rail and Road

Network Rail has been issued with an improvement notice by the Office of Rail and Road for London’s Euston Station, where the company has failed to put in effective measures to prevent risks to passengers and others during instances of surges and overcrowding.

www.orr.gov.uk

Network Rail has accepted the findings and is working with train operators and ORR to develop and implement effective mitigations and controls for crowd management at London Euston Station.

In the meantime, thanks all