DART Modernisation Plan & Irish Rail New Trains

[Steddenm]

The DART+ Programme will revolutionise travel in the Greater Dublin Area. It will see the DART network grow from its current 50km in length to over 150km. Bringing DART travel with all its benefits to new and existing communities.

It will promote multi modal transit, active transport, boost regional connectivity and make public transport the preferred option for more and more people. The DART+ Programme will deliver frequent, modern, electrified services within the Greater Dublin Area (GDA) and will improve connectivity to Regional towns and cities.

The DART+ Programme will involve rail improvements from:

• DART+ West - Maynooth and M3 Parkway to the City Centre
• DART+ South West - Hazelhatch & Celbridge to the City Centre
• DART+ Coastal North - Drogheda to the City Centre
• DART+ Coastal South - Greystones to the City Centre
• DART+ Fleet - purchase of new a train fleet to increase train services.

Image shows concept design of new DART carriages.

New DART Fleet​

The new DART fleet order placed in December 2021 with Alstom Transport is for 19 x 5 car trains. The main contract is for 10 years allowing up to 750 cars to be purchased on a call off basis and this first call off order is for 95 vehicles. They will begin to enter passenger service from mid-2025 onwards.

1. Toilets – there are no toilets fitted to these vehicles in line with existing DART fleet. Interiors are designed for passenger capacity.
2. Bike capacity – There are 4 bicycle spaces per train with 2 spaces in each front & end vehicle. Charging for e-bicycles is also provided.
3. Fuel type – The fleet is electrically powered from an overhead line. In addition 13 of the 19 trains also have battery storage enabling normal operation on lines beyond the overhead line system e.g. Dublin Connolly to Drogheda.

A further order or additional BEMU carriages has been announced for services in the Cork-Cobh commuter belt which will include electrification of the line. These carriages will be the same as the DART+ services.


Image shows a map of Cork commuter services from Irish Rail.

The new carriages will allow a ten minute frequency between Cork, Mallow, Cobh and Middleton with a 5 minute frequency between Cork and Glounthaune. The new BEMUs will be serviced at a new depot in Cobh.

The current InterCity units are also being lengthened from 4 car to 5 and from 5 car to 6 on selected routes.

Irish Rail also said today on Virgin Media One's Ireland:AM that the Enterprise and Mk5 sets which operate between Dublin and Belfast, and Dublin and Cork respectively may be replaced in the future to new tri-mode seven car units, "like they've got in the UK" and are looking at the Class 80x project.

Main sources: https://www.dartplus.ie/en-ie/about-dart
Virgin Media Television Ireland's Ireland:am programme (available to watch on the Virgin Media Player - Ireland only)

 

[Dr Day]

How much of the plan is actually fully committed and funded, beyond a 'like-for-like' replacement? I'm surprised the Cork commuter area hasn't gone for light rail, particularly south of Kent where there is no sharing with InterCity, but maybe the differential in operating costs/capital savings for not needing footbridges etc in Ireland isn't as big as it is in the UK.

 

[AlastairFraser]

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/cork/light-rail/ - Cork is getting trams as well.

How much of the plan is actually fully committed and funded, beyond a 'like-for-like' replacement? I'm surprised the Cork commuter area hasn't gone for light rail, particularly south of Kent where there is no sharing with InterCity, but maybe the differential in operating costs/capital savings for not needing footbridges etc in Ireland isn't as big as it is in the UK.

 

[duesselmartin]

tri mode, overhead, battery and diesel? Does that make sense?

 

[FormerBritInMe]

Good news if this goes ahead. I understand replacement of the 1984 vintage original DART EMU's is well overdue.

Slightly OT, but is there a good source of information on Irish Rail? I found a site "Rail Users Ireland" but is does not seem very active at present, and my application to post on their forum has not been processed which suggests the site may not be currently active.

 

[Dr Day]

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/cork/light-rail/ - Cork is getting trams as well.

Not necessarily- the strategy is still only at the proposal stage. Not fully committed and funded, if I understand that article correctly.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Not necessarily- the strategy is still only at the proposal stage. Not fully committed and funded, if I understand that article correctly.

Not fully funded, but it is a firm proposal.

 

[Steddenm]

What I can see happening is that the Cork commuter lines are electrified and stock cascaded from the newer DART trains in Dublin to operate on the route. The new DART+ units will then be used exclusively in Dublin. The new tri-mode units will replace current railcars, including the BREL-derived units used in the Cork and West. The old DART units will be scrapped. The Enterprise will be replaced by a Class 80x variant in 8 car mode as will the Cork Dublin service. Locos may be replaced as well with a Class 66 clone.

I know Irish Rail looked at the spare Class 222s a few years ago for the Enterprise (but these then entered service with EMT) and they could be interested in these again, or the displaced AWC Voyagers.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

You can definitely see they've taken the design from the Melbourne X'trapolis 2.0 and the Transperth C series and mashed them together at the front.

 

[AlastairFraser]

What I can see happening is that the Cork commuter lines are electrified and stock cascaded from the newer DART trains in Dublin to operate on the route. The new DART+ units will then be used exclusively in Dublin. The new tri-mode units will replace current railcars, including the BREL-derived units used in the Cork and West. The old DART units will be scrapped. The Enterprise will be replaced by a Class 80x variant in 8 car mode as will the Cork Dublin service. Locos may be replaced as well with a Class 66 clone.

I know Irish Rail looked at the spare Class 222s a few years ago for the Enterprise (but these then entered service with EMT) and they could be interested in these again, or the displaced AWC Voyagers.

The Class 201 locos on the Enterprise certainly aren’t end of life (neither are the Mark 4 coaches from 2006), so no idea why they’d do this.
An overhaul of both to modernise facilities, plus adding traction batteries might be more sensible.
80x would make no sense anyway given the proposal is only to electrify some of the Dublin suburban network for DART+. The vast majority of the Enterprise and Dublin to Cork routes will still be unelectrified.
Perhaps something to consider when NIR electrify their section to Newry for the Enterprise at least.

 

[DanNCL]

What I can see happening is that the Cork commuter lines are electrified and stock cascaded from the newer DART trains in Dublin to operate on the route. The new DART+ units will then be used exclusively in Dublin. The new tri-mode units will replace current railcars, including the BREL-derived units used in the Cork and West. The old DART units will be scrapped. The Enterprise will be replaced by a Class 80x variant in 8 car mode as will the Cork Dublin service. Locos may be replaced as well with a Class 66 clone.

I know Irish Rail looked at the spare Class 222s a few years ago for the Enterprise (but these then entered service with EMT) and they could be interested in these again, or the displaced AWC Voyagers.

The 66s are already linked to the 201 class locos!

The new electrification will be 25kV, all current DART units are 1.5kV only, so a transfer of the Tokyu Car EMUs to Cork wouldn’t be possible either.

Also not clear if Hitachi would want to build an Irish gauge product, as it’s a market they’ve never entered before and one with limited scope for follow up orders. CAF and Stadler are the two most likely manufacturers for any new Enterprise fleet.

The Class 201 locos on the Enterprise certainly aren’t end of life (neither are the Mark 4 coaches from 2006), so no idea why they’d do this.
An overhaul of both to modernise facilities, plus adding traction batteries might be more sensible.
80x would make no sense anyway given the proposal is only to electrify some of the Dublin suburban network for DART+. The vast majority of the Enterprise and Dublin to Cork routes will still be unelectrified.
Perhaps something to consider when NIR electrify their section to Newry for the Enterprise at least.

The Enterprise batch of 201s could prove to be quite useful in either IE or NIR’s freight fleets should they wish to expand their freight ops, being locos equipped with both CAWS for the Republic and AWS/TPWS for Northern Ireland.

The De Dietrich coaches could do with replacement anyway. They’ve never been the most reliable.

I agree with Dublin - Cork though. Definitely no need to replace the mark 4s, and the only reason to replace the 201s would be if the route is ever electrified and IE got their hands on suitable electric locos.

 

[stuu]

The structure gauge in Ireland is virtually identical to the UK, so it's only the bogies that are different. Hitachi have built trains for 1600mm gauge trains in the past, in both Australia and Brazil. Whether its worth their while is a different matter

 

[AlastairFraser]

The Enterprise batch of 201s could prove to be quite useful in either IE or NIR’s freight fleets should they wish to expand their freight ops, being locos equipped with both CAWS for the Republic and AWS/TPWS for Northern Ireland.

The De Dietrich coaches could do with replacement anyway. They’ve never been the most reliable.

I agree with Dublin - Cork though. Definitely no need to replace the mark 4s, and the only reason to replace the 201s would be if the route is ever electrified and IE got their hands on suitable electric locos.

The problem is NIR have enough to focus on without thinking about freight tbh, maybe IE would think about replacing theirs but I highly doubt it'd be worth the capital expenditure until the whole route is wired as new passenger diesel locos aren't particularly easy to come by.
The coaching stock should be easy enough to replace, they've a good relationship with CAF and they build decent enough stock for the Irish system.

 

[busestrains]

What I can see happening is that the Cork commuter lines are electrified and stock cascaded from the newer DART trains in Dublin to operate on the route. The new DART+ units will then be used exclusively in Dublin. The new tri-mode units will replace current railcars, including the BREL-derived units used in the Cork and West. The old DART units will be scrapped. The Enterprise will be replaced by a Class 80x variant in 8 car mode as will the Cork Dublin service. Locos may be replaced as well with a Class 66 clone.

I know Irish Rail looked at the spare Class 222s a few years ago for the Enterprise (but these then entered service with EMT) and they could be interested in these again, or the displaced AWC Voyagers.

I highly doubt any British trains will be sent to Ireland ever. There have been various proposals over the years to send 170s and 180s and 185s and 222s over there but it has never happened. It is just far too difficult and expensive to regauge them. I can not see any new 80X IET trains being bought over there either. What i think is likely to happen is that they will just order more of the Hyundai Rotem 22000 trains. This would be the most sensible idea anyway as it would give them one simple standard fleet.

 

[Steddenm]

They've had British trains over here before and reguaged them to Irish guage. Northern Ireland Railways had one of the ex-Gatwick Express DBSO-sets as a back up for the Enterprise fleet when it was in overhaul. Ultimately it never got used and is currently at the Downpatrick Museum. Also, there are some Mk3 regauged vehicles in use which are being used as generator cars on the aforementioned Enterprise.

 

[43096]

They've had British trains over here before and reguaged them to Irish guage. Northern Ireland Railways had one of the ex-Gatwick Express DBSO-sets as a back up for the Enterprise fleet when it was in overhaul. Ultimately it never got used and is currently at the Downpatrick Museum. Also, there are some Mk3 regauged vehicles in use which are being used as generator cars on the aforementioned Enterprise.

The generator vans on the Enterprise service are not re-gauged; they were built new for Ireland.

However, there were several Mark 2s sent over and re-gauged, as were a single Mark 3 catering vehicle (40513/6402) and the BREL "International" set.

 

[dubscottie]

tri mode, overhead, battery and diesel? Does that make sense?

Battery, 1500v DC, 25kv AC.

I highly doubt any British trains will be sent to Ireland ever. There have been various proposals over the years to send 170s and 180s and 185s and 222s over there but it has never happened. It is just far too difficult and expensive to regauge them.

The 170 was offered for the IC routes but Dick Fern called them "horrendous and completely unsuitable" at the time.

The problem is NIR have enough to focus on without thinking about freight tbh, maybe IE would think about replacing theirs but I highly doubt it'd be worth the capital expenditure until the whole route is wired as new passenger diesel locos aren't particularly easy to come by.
The coaching stock should be easy enough to replace, they've a good relationship with CAF and they build decent enough stock for the Irish system.

The CAF stuff is not without its faults. I have no experience of the MK4 sets although some have been idle since pre covid days. The 29000 class are knackered,both structurally and mechanically. I believe the original intention was to send them to Cork/Limerick to replace the 2600/2800 but they probably will go straight for scrap. They are rotten with rust. Its so bad that only a few sets were painted in the new green livery, the rest had vinyl. Paint wouldn't stick. The interior floors are like the Himalayas particularly around the doors.
The original DART units are just as bad.You can push your finger through some of the metal its so thin.

 

[duesselmartin]

why would Eiré need passenger diesel locos? As generator vans are used, even on the Cork service, one could continue using gens. Any gauge adopted Alstom/Stadler/Siemens/GE, you name it, would do. Stadler even has Bi-Mode locomotives.

 

[AlastairFraser]

The CAF stuff is not without its faults. I have no experience of the MK4 sets although some have been idle since pre covid days. The 29000 class are knackered,both structurally and mechanically. I believe the original intention was to send them to Cork/Limerick to replace the 2600/2800 but they probably will go straight for scrap. They are rotten with rust. Its so bad that only a few sets were painted in the new green livery, the rest had vinyl. Paint wouldn't stick. The interior floors are like the Himalayas particularly around the doors.
The original DART units are just as bad.You can push your finger through some of the metal its so thin.

It's a shame that the 29000 class are knackered at midlife, I wonder if it was a systemic problem with CAF stock around this time as the Heathrow Express 332s had a similar issue and were built at similar times.
CAF should really be paying for an overhaul if their product really doesn't stand up to inspection after nearly 20 years, but you get what you pay for I guess.
The original DART units you would expect to be a little knackered because they've been intensively used for almost 40 years and are life-expired by anyone's standards.

 

[berneyarms]

I think people are getting a bit ahead of themselves here.

Given that IE have just issued a tender to repair the floors on the 29k sets, and another to replace the seats on boththe 2600s and 29k sets, I’d not be writing them off anytime soon.

Floor tender:

Public RFT - Supply of Floor Plates for 29000 DMU Fleet

Seats tender:

Public RFT - Passenger Seat Replacement of 2600 & 29000 DMU Fleets

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I highly doubt any British trains will be sent to Ireland ever. There have been various proposals over the years to send 170s and 180s and 185s and 222s over there but it has never happened. It is just far too difficult and expensive to regauge them. I can not see any new 80X IET trains being bought over there either. What i think is likely to happen is that they will just order more of the Hyundai Rotem 22000 trains. This would be the most sensible idea anyway as it would give them one simple standard fleet.

It really isn't as difficult as you make out. The structure gauge is pretty much identical to GB, and over the years Ireland (and Northern Ireland) have used mk2s, mk3s, and various other types based on those designs- with a handful of vehicles having operated on both networks.

 

[Richard Scott]

It's a shame that the 29000 class are knackered at midlife, I wonder if it was a systemic problem with CAF stock around this time as the Heathrow Express 332s had a similar issue and were built at similar times.

They are possibly one of the worst trains I've ever been on. Noisy and uncomfortable with the constant drone from the auxiliary generator set. I'd hate to think what their fuel consumption is like but it's very unpleasant with the fumes generated by one under the trainshed at Connolly station.
It will be good news when they are finally withdrawn.

 

[AlastairFraser]

They are possibly one of the worst trains I've ever been on. Noisy and uncomfortable with the constant drone from the auxiliary generator set. I'd hate to think what their fuel consumption is like but it's very unpleasant with the fumes generated by one under the trainshed at Connolly station.
It will be good news when they are finally withdrawn.

I've never actually been on IE, only NIR to be entirely honest, but I'll give them a go when I get to Dublin.
I challenge you to a Northern Rail 150, esp. on a winter Lancs morning or in a heatwave if you think those units are bad. Abject neglect and knackered are two terms I would use to describe them.

 

[Richard Scott]

I've never actually been on IE, only NIR to be entirely honest, but I'll give them a go when I get to Dublin.
I challenge you to a Northern Rail 150, esp. on a winter Lancs morning or in a heatwave if you think those units are bad. Abject neglect and knackered are two terms I would use to describe them.

In my opinion a 150 is preferable, it's the constant drone from the auxiliary power pack that is incredibly irritating. They really are quite horrid.

 

[berneyarms]

They are however exceptionally reliable units that are the mainstay of the diesel commuter routes around Dublin.

 

[AlastairFraser]

In my opinion a 150 is preferable, it's the constant drone from the auxiliary power pack that is incredibly irritating. They really are quite horrid.

I'll take irritating over filthy, broken and 80s engines any day.

 

[dubscottie]

I think people are getting a bit ahead of themselves here.

Given that IE have just issued a tender to repair the floors on the 29k sets, and another to replace the seats on boththe 2600s and 29k sets, I’d not be writing them off anytime soon.

Floor tender:

Public RFT - Supply of Floor Plates for 29000 DMU Fleet

Seats tender:

Public RFT - Passenger Seat Replacement of 2600 & 29000 DMU Fleets

Its good to hear some money is being spent on the 29s. There is a ton of other stuff that needs done to them though.
While they are "reliable", its not uncommon to find them with engines shut down & exhaust leaking into the passenger area. They don't like wet rails either.