DB Regio trains Israel

[northwichcat]

Watching the edition of Great Continental Railway Journeys in Israel I noticed there were a lot of DB Regio style double decker trains in DB colours but without the DB brand name. What's the situation with these trains?

 

[CC 72100]

Thank you for making a thread on this - I had the exact same thought but hadn't got round to it. I did have a look on wikipedia which suggests that they are all new, purpose builds - there was no mention of them being purchased by Israel etc, which begs the question why are they in DB red?

 

[northwichcat]

Only connection I can find between DB and Israel is this:

The campaign to impose a boycott on projects beyond the Green Line has scored a success: Germany's national railway company, Deutsche Bahn, recently decided to drop out of the Jerusalem-Tel Aviv rail project because the line will pass in part through the West Bank.

The company's decision marks a victory for left-wing Israeli and Palestinian activists who waged a campaign to secure it over the last few months.

According to a report in Der Spiegel, the German transport minister, Peter Ramsauer, told Deutsche Bahn's CEO that the projected rail line is "problematic from a political perspective" and violates international law. As a result, the company, which is owned by the German government, announced its withdrawal from the project.

The company had been serving as a consultant to Israel Railways, and for this specific project was responsible primarily for reviewing documents.

The campaign against the German company's involvement in the project started last year with a report released by the Coalition of Women for Peace. The report said that not only would the tracks cross the Green Line in two spots, near Latrun and Beit Surik, but the project would also severely affect the residents of three Palestinian villages along the Green Line. Specifically, it said, land would be expropriated from these villages for the project and access to the villages would be impaired.

The report also listed the names of the international corporations involved in the project, including a Russian government corporation and private companies from Italy and other countries. The Coalition of Women for Peace then distributed the report to left-wing activists in Germany in order to exert pressure on the government in Berlin.

Decision welcomed

Merav Amir, a member of the coalition, welcomed the decision this week. "I congratulate the German government on its clear declaration regarding the illegality of the rail line," she said. "It is encouraging to see governments acting in accordance with the pacts they signed. We call on other governments to follow in its footsteps."

The activists are hoping that other foreign companies, both private and government-owned, will follow Deutsche Bahn's lead and cease their involvement in the project.

The fast rail line from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem is scheduled to be completed in 2017, after which the trip is to take just 28 minutes. It is one of the biggest and most important infrastructure projects currently under construction in Israel and includes a complex network of tunnels and bridges. In the past, the project was assailed by the Society for the Protection of Nature in Israel because of the anticipated damage to the environment.

Israel Railways said in response that Deutsche Bahn is responsible for only a small part of the project and the Israeli firm is now preparing to find a company to replace it.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/deutsche-bahn-pulls-out-of-ta-jerusalem-railroad-1.361170

 

[CC 72100]

Hmmm - the above however very much suggests German involvement in future projects, as opposed to a sale of stock in the past.

Either way, I don't think the red DB regio style is the Israeli railways actual livery - it seemed to be that the livery that the units were in was the 'actual' livery.... but why would stock be delivered in that livery if it was a new build?

 

[northwichcat]

Hmmm - the above however very much suggests German involvement in future projects, as opposed to a sale of stock in the past.

I've found a 2014 article saying DB have been awarded a new contract but it's a right-wing Jewish publication which makes reference to DB being a company that assisted the Nazis in WWII so I'm not sure about posting it on here.

Either way, I don't think the red DB regio style is the Israeli railways actual livery - it seemed to be that the livery that the units were in was the 'actual' livery.... but why would stock be delivered in that livery if it was a new build?

According to the Bombardier website they are the same width as our class 150 trains so would that mean they are narrower than the standard German width, given everyone always says DMUs designed for Germany wouldn't fit our gauge?

http://www.bombardier.com/en/transp...h-israel.html?f-region=middle-east-and-africa

 

[Bletchleyite]

On pure width DB UIC stock is 2.825m wide, or just 5mm wider than a Class 323. But width is not the only factor.

Neil

 

[northwichcat]

On pure width DB UIC stock is 2.825m wide, or just 5mm wider than a Class 323. But width is not the only factor.

Well yes Germany has lower platforms than we have but making accessible trains for higher platforms should give more space for under floor engines rather than less.

 

[eastwestdivide]

2010 article from railway Gazette on an Israel Railways order for "more" new double-deckers from Bombardier:
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/isr-orders-more-double-deckers.html

Having supplied ISR’s first generation of double-deck vehicles for the expanding suburban routes around Tel Aviv, Bombardier was selected ahead of a rival bid from Finmeccanica of Italy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well yes Germany has lower platforms than we have but making accessible trains for higher platforms should give more space for under floor engines rather than less.

Sorry, not sure I get your point?

Neil

 

[northwichcat]

Sorry, not sure I get your point?

If you had a box 23m x 2.8m x 1m and another box 23m x 2.8m x 1.5m which would it be easier to fit something inside?

 

[Bletchleyite]

My point was that the UK loading gauge is not a box.

 

[northwichcat]

My point was that the UK loading gauge is not a box.

I was trying to give a very simple example as you seemed to struggle to understand why having a high floor train vs a low floor train should make any difference with regards to fitting an engine in.

Anyway this is getting too off-topic for why Israel trains are in DB colours.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wasn't saying anything about engines. I was simply saying that a DMU designed for Germany will not fit UK loading gauge even if on pure width it might seem it would. The main issues would be height, as well as width below UK platform level, requiring a custom body design.

This would be as different from the German DMU as a Voyager is from the 1990s Belgian LHCS design on which it is very loosely based.

Neil

 

[MK Tom]

Didn't Israeli railways used to operate ex-BR Mark II stock?