December 2023 Timetable Change

[Bald Rick]

Back in the days when Virgin Cross Country ran Reading - Gatwick via Kensington Olympia, I was on a late evening train which was cancelled on arrival at Reading due to no conductor. Remains passengers were put in a minibus for Gatwick and went the via the M25 etc. Journey time was less than the train was timetabled to take. Also, Virgin had agreed to those of us not needing Gatwick to be taken home, rather than just left at Gatwick waiting for onward connections.

Which explains precisely why it doesnt run any more!

 

[Jamesrob637]

With the reinstatement of the below:

Realtime Trains | 1L08 0851 Liverpool Lime Street to Norwich | 18/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 1L08 0851 departure from Liverpool Lime Street to Norwich on 18/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I think this means EMR are now hourly Liverpool to Nottingham for the first time since March 2020. Anybody beg to differ? A very welcome move for those on weekday rangers starting in Stockport or stations close to, due to the 09:30 restriction.

 

[TheBigD]

1251 ex Liverpool still terminates at Nottingham meaning a 2 hour gap east of Notts, along with the missing 1855 ex Norwich westbound.

 

[Jamesrob637]

1251 ex Liverpool still terminates at Nottingham meaning a 2 hour gap east of Notts, along with the missing 1855 ex Norwich westbound.

Ok but for the "western" section of the route (Liverpool to Nottingham), it's back to hourly now.

 

[dk1]

1251 ex Liverpool still terminates at Nottingham meaning a 2 hour gap east of Notts, along with the missing 1855 ex Norwich westbound.

The inbound working due Norwich around 18:15 was always one of the most popular services and am surprised it’s still missing. June do you think??

 

[Horizon22]

On the Thames Valley part of the GWML GWR are introducing a new 387 operated 0739 service from Reading to Paddington calling at Maidenhead in order to combat overcrowding.

Meanwhile TFL are adding in Acton Mainline stops to the 0724 and 0754 Reading to Abbey Wood services, which adds more inconsistency to the lizzy line GWML stopping patterns. And on Saturday nights the 2343 Abbey Wood to Paddington service is being extended to Maidenhead to combat late night overcrowding.

And the 0539 Lizzy Line service from Whitechapel to Heathrow T4 is going to be extended to start in service from Stratford at 0534, having come empty from Gidea Park sidings

Would see more sensible to add trains from Terminal 5 at Acton Main Line (or indeed all stops), but this adds what is a "peak express" train from outer suburban stations with an extra stop at Acton!

As for that Whitechapel train was always strange it didn't start further back that train considering as you say it has run in empty anyway!

 

[moonarrow458]

Would see more sensible to add trains from Terminal 5 at Acton Main Line (or indeed all stops), but this adds what is a "peak express" train from outer suburban stations with an extra stop at Acton!

I would imagine its a mixture of capacity and pathing that has dictated that those 2 ex-Reading trains call additionally at Acton instead of an ex Heathrow T5 train. Those 2 ex-Reading trains are odd enough in that they run non stop between West Drayton and Ealing, mirroring the GWR services they replaced.

As for that Whitechapel train was always strange it didn't start further back that train considering as you say it has run in empty anyway!

Indeed, you'd think an earlier direct GEML to Heathrow train would be desired by GEML lizzy line passengers. Pure speculation but running the train empty from Gidea Park and first entering passenger service at Stratford might be motivated by a desire to retain flexibilty of the origin of the unit, so that it could come from Ilford depot vice Gidea Park if necessary. I note that the 0639 from Whitechapel on a Saturday remains unchanged.

And it would appear there is a corresponding service at 0014 from Paddington which only runs to Whitechapel before running empty to Gidea Park sidings, which is perhaps odder given the shorter nature and i would have thought there'd be a reluctance to terminate services in the core, given the increased potential for knock on delays.

 

[Horizon22]

I would imagine its a mixture of capacity and pathing that has dictated that those 2 ex-Reading trains call additionally at Acton instead of an ex Heathrow T5 train. Those 2 ex-Reading trains are odd enough in that they run non stop between West Drayton and Ealing, mirroring the GWR services they replaced.

Indeed, you'd think an earlier direct GEML to Heathrow train would be desired by GEML lizzy line passengers. Pure speculation but running the train empty from Gidea Park and first entering passenger service at Stratford might be motivated by a desire to retain flexibilty of the origin of the unit, so that it could come from Ilford depot vice Gidea Park if necessary. I note that the 0639 from Whitechapel on a Saturday remains unchanged.

And it would appear there is a corresponding service at 0014 from Paddington which only runs to Whitechapel before running empty to Gidea Park sidings, which is perhaps odder given the shorter nature and i would have thought there'd be a reluctance to terminate services in the core, given the increased potential for knock on delays.

It probably is pathing but as you say it adds even more inconsistency to the GWML stopping patterns. Acton Main Line has had a passenger number explosion though due to development and people switching from the Central line.

The only other thought I had was it’s possession related so the unit could run to/from Plumstead rather than Gidea Park / Ilford hence the Whitechapel start/finish but in reality this never seems required as it’s still within normal running hours.

 

[ReturnToSPT]

Still ridiculously massive gaps in the Sunday northbound service at Heaton Chapel and Levenshulme. This should have been fixed back in 2018. Southbound is acceptable with 1tph to Buxton.

Inexcusable that northern haven’t managed to sort this one out with at least the Buxton train calling in each direction

 

[Jamesrob637]

Inexcusable that northern haven’t managed to sort this one out with at least the Buxton train calling in each direction

The first one of the day from Buxton does at around 09:10. The other 14 or so therefore should do so too.

 

[30907]

The first one of the day from Buxton does at around 09:10. The other 14 or so therefore should do so too.

You might be interested in the discussion here:https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/heaton-chapel-on-sundays.256952/#post-6481286

 

[Jamesrob637]

Not sure whether this has already been mentioned but Liverpool regains its second LNWR per hour, albeit only running as far as Crewe.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not sure whether this has already been mentioned but Liverpool regains its second LNWR per hour, albeit only running as far as Crewe.

Except the last one or two of the day and 1008/2008 on weekdays they all go to Birmingham. Did you pick a day with planned engineering?

Saturday 2tph all day, Sunday 1tph all day.

 

[JonathanH]

Not sure whether this has already been mentioned but Liverpool regains its second LNWR per hour, albeit only running as far as Crewe.

On weekdays only the 1008 and 2008 terminate at Crewe. The half hourly is only at peak times. It remains hourly through the middle of the day from 1033 to 1533 from Liverpool.

On Saturdays, the service is half hourly from Birmingham to Liverpool.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Except the last one or two of the day and 1008/2008 on weekdays they all go to Birmingham. Did you pick a day with planned engineering?

Saturday 2tph all day, Sunday 1tph all day.

I saw 09:33 then 10:08 then 10:33 from Liverpool, of which the 10:08 does indeed terminate at Crewe.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I saw 09:33 then 10:08 then 10:33 from Liverpool, of which the 10:08 does indeed terminate at Crewe.

Yes, missed the 1008 and edited my post

Worth checking all day when checking these.

 

[RealTrains07]

For now yes. Once whatever new line it is opens (I forget) it will revert to running to Birmingham via that route.

Its odd why its been cut back now only to be reinstated later?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Its odd why its been cut back now only to be reinstated later?

It'll be reinstated via a different route, it is presently a bit duplicative and poorly used.

 

[Kite159]

It'll be reinstated via a different route, it is presently a bit duplicative and poorly used.

Doesn't help that it follows the Liverpool - Birmingham train from Stafford and is the slow train from Wolverhampton to Birmingham (not sure if it's still a case of being quicker to change at Wolverhampton to catch the next train via the main line).

The biggest impact is on a Sunday morning where the first LNR train from Crewe to Birmingham is nearly 2 hours later & first southbound train at Penkridge is 2 hours later. I would dread to think how much overcrowded the voyagers will be on a Sunday morning where it's only hourly. (09;25 & 10:25)

 

[jhy44]

Does a helpful summary of all the main changes by operator exist somewhere?
Would be a very helpful resource.

 

[mm333]

Does a helpful summary of all the main changes by operator exist somewhere?
Would be a very helpful resource.

Yes, there is this page on the National Rail website.

The National Rail Timetable is changed twice a year.

The current timetable started on Sunday 21 May 2023 and operates until Saturday 9 December 2023.

The next timetable starts on Sunday 10 December 2023 and operates until Saturday 1 June 2024.

 

[RealTrains07]

It'll be reinstated via a different route, it is presently a bit duplicative and poorly used.

Wouldnt call it a different route as the only difference between now and then will be the addition of 2 extra stations

However the duplicative argument does make alot of sense though

 

[DDB]

Yes, there is this page on the National Rail website.

There is some serious spin on that page. Cross Country has some cheek claiming that restoring services temporarily removed due to Birmingham New Street works are an addition and that they have been running an enhanced timetable!

CrossCountry
The timetable will be changing from 10 December 2023. CrossCountry will continue to operate their enhanced timetable which started in May 2023. In addition to this, a half hourly service will operate between Nottingham and Birmingham New Street on Mondays to Fridays.

 

[Mugby]

It seems I've got half of what I was hoping for from EMR; the 1810 Crewe to Nottingham service is restored which is very useful connection for returning from a day out in Liverpool or Manchester or several other points in the North West.

Unfortunately still a 2 hour gap in the morning between 1016 and 1216 from Nottingham to Crewe, this is particularly bad for football matches, race meetings and other events, especially on Saturdays. I'd rather see an 1116 than the 1216 actually!

 

[wls1]

c2c PDF has been released:

Outline of the changes is on this link, along with extra peak services and confirmation of 720s to be mainly used via Ockendon on Weekends

c2c boosts timetable to increase capacity | Trains to/from London, Southend & Essex with c2c Rail

For trains to and from London, Southend and elsewhere in Essex, plus timetables, ticket sales, information and events and offers, visit c2c-online.co.uk

www.c2c-online.co.uk

 

[Baxenden Bank]

It seems I've got half of what I was hoping for from EMR; the 1810 Crewe to Nottingham service is restored which is very useful connection for returning from a day out in Liverpool or Manchester or several other points in the North West.

Unfortunately still a 2 hour gap in the morning between 1016 and 1216 from Nottingham to Crewe, this is particularly bad for football matches, race meetings and other events, especially on Saturdays. I'd rather see an 1116 than the 1216 actually!

The two round trips are only coming back Monday to Friday though.

 

[43055]

It seems I've got half of what I was hoping for from EMR; the 1810 Crewe to Nottingham service is restored which is very useful connection for returning from a day out in Liverpool or Manchester or several other points in the North West.

Unfortunately still a 2 hour gap in the morning between 1016 and 1216 from Nottingham to Crewe, this is particularly bad for football matches, race meetings and other events, especially on Saturdays. I'd rather see an 1116 than the 1216 actually!

Can can't understand why the middle of the day one is still missing as it part the same diagram. Still a positive that the weekday peaks are being restored I suppose. Might get the train to work some times now. Hopefully May will see the final gaps plugged.

If you want the 1116 it is running this Saturday due to racing at Uttoxeter:

Realtime Trains | Departures from Uttoxeter between 0200 and 0159 on 18/11/2023

Train information at Uttoxeter between 0200 and 0159 on 18/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Alfie1014]

c2c PDF has been released:

Outline of the changes is on this link, along with extra peak services and confirmation of 720s to be mainly used via Ockendon on Weekends

c2c boosts timetable to increase capacity | Trains to/from London, Southend & Essex with c2c Rail

For trains to and from London, Southend and elsewhere in Essex, plus timetables, ticket sales, information and events and offers, visit c2c-online.co.uk

www.c2c-online.co.uk

With the 07:03 ex Southend Central (as well as the 04:06 from Thorpe Bay) shown as 10 car I believe these will be the first booked passenger trains longer than 8 cars ever to have operated on the Tilbury loop and Ockendon branch! At long last utilising the HLOS extended platforms that were funded and built more than 10 years ago and 60 years since the route was first electrified!

 

[Kite159]

So Saturday services via Ockendon which serve the shopping centre at Lakeside go from pairs of 357s to single 720s? Especially in the run up for Christmas. What could go wrong there.

Makes little sense, if any route should be single 720s at weekends it would be the Fenchurch Street - Grays via Dagenham.

 

[NorthStaffs]

Can can't understand why the middle of the day one is still missing as it part the same diagram. Still a positive that the weekday peaks are being restored I suppose. Might get the train to work some times now. Hopefully May will see the final gaps plugged.

If you want the 1116 it is running this Saturday due to racing at Uttoxeter:

Realtime Trains | Departures from Uttoxeter between 0200 and 0159 on 18/11/2023

Train information at Uttoxeter between 0200 and 0159 on 18/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

As a user of the Derby to Stoke line for Saturday footie and occasional Uttoxeter racing I consider that being one of the few east west rail links in the midlands it is woefully underused given its potential. Leaving that aside it seems no one with any rail clout is pressing EMR to reinstate the precovid daytime hourly service hence the continuing gaps already mentioned.Other lines within EMR seem to have fared much better e.g. the Matlock branch.If EMR can provide an hourly service on Saturday why can’t this become the norm? And while I’m on my soapbox does anyone believe this line will ever get a better Sunday service?