December 2023 Timetable Change

[185]

Does XC still make a couple of Crewe calls, or have some returned this week?

It's still one south (6am), one north (8am) in the morning, usually with the same driver, although the northbound was cancelled & ran empty stock this morning due to no New St guard.

Notably, they've been doing an Avanti when the Stoke route is shut for works or disruption, passengers for Macclesfield are forced onto a replacement 90-min bus ride at Stafford with XC refusing to stop at Crewe - a reasonable alternative, with the train pointlessly rolling through the platforms at around 10mph. They could also stop at Wilmslow with no impact on other trains, but again refuse to.

 

[Mamorin]

XC have enough overcrowding issues already without calling at any more stations to add more passengers.

I know its not possible for XC to add anymore station calls due to overcrowding issues, I've seen many people on social media compain about overcrowding on XC service. Hence why I said

If it was possible

 

[The Planner]

It's still one south (6am), one north (8am) in the morning, usually with the same driver, although the northbound was cancelled & ran empty stock this morning due to no New St guard.

Notably, they've been doing an Avanti when the Stoke route is shut for works or disruption, passengers for Macclesfield are forced onto a replacement 90-min bus ride at Stafford with XC refusing to stop at Crewe - a reasonable alternative, with the train pointlessly rolling through the platforms at around 10mph. They could also stop at Wilmslow with no impact on other trains, but again refuse to.

They don't refuse, the amended paths dont always allow it.

 

[Baji]

On the London Victoria to Dorking/Horsham line, the following trains on Saturday will be increased 10 coaches.
Departing from Carshalton:

08:45

12:15

14:45

18:15

20:45

Departing from Victoria:

07:11 Dorking

09:41

13:11

15:41

19:11

21:41

This is from the information is from this link

Some railway services are being restored from 5 carriages to 10 carriages!

After pushing forward many meetings and constantly fighting for the changes you want, I am really glad to announce that some of the services from Carshalton into London Victoria are being extended from 5 carriages to 10 carriages!

www.elliotcolburn.co.uk

 

[yorksrob]

I caught the new direct train from Normanton to Manchester Piccadilly yesterday. I was quite impressed at how well used it was, given it avoided Leeds. There were plenty on board, with a handful of people joining at Normanton and a few more than that joining at Wakefield.

Another real benefit of this service is the 21:58 direct train back from Piccadilly to Wakefield Kirkgate. I presume this used to be empty to Crofton from Huddersfield previously, however having this as a service train makes getting back to the Wakefield area a lot easier from the West. There were quite a few people detraining at Wakefield as well.

 

[Bikeman78]

Its a bit tight at Wilmslow with the TfW behind it. It clashes with the Edinburgh Euston via Birmingham if it stops at Crewe.

Why run via Crewe if it doesn't stop there? Why not run via Stoke in the standard hourly pattern? As mentioned, it used to provide relief for the TfW train. I think Crewe was taken out during Covid and never put back in.

 

[jfollows]

Why run via Crewe if it doesn't stop there? Why not run via Stoke in the standard hourly pattern? As mentioned, it used to provide relief for the TfW train. I think Crewe was taken out during Covid and never put back in.

See my post 953 above, it’s to enable an off-pattern rush hour stopper to run to Macclesfield (and Stoke). A down morning XC service goes via Crewe for a similar reason. The additional stopper (2K50 17:18 Piccadilly to Stoke) calls at Bramhall in the up direction at the time the standard hourly XC would normally be passing.

 

[Bikeman78]

See my post 953 above, it’s to enable an off-pattern rush hour stopper to run to Macclesfield (and Stoke). A down morning XC service goes via Crewe for a similar reason.

Fair enough. Still makes no sense to omit Crewe and dump all the passengers on TfW.

 

[Topological]

Fair enough. Still makes no sense to omit Crewe and dump all the passengers on TfW.

In that regard, do the CrossCountry trains have capacity?

It would be more useful if they could make Wilmslow pick up only heading south on TfW in the evening peak (set down only towards Manchester in the morning peak) and then that would make a bit more space for the Crewe passengers.

As a regular user of the TfW train, it is frustrating how busy the train gets with commuters not actually traveling that far. Would be even worse if I was getting on at Stockport and planning to travel past Crewe.

 

[Bikeman78]

On Merseyrail, the Southport line has been retimed. Previously one train arrived four minutes before the previous diagram departed. Now the trains sit at Birkdale for three minutes and then have two minutes added for the journey to Southport, arriving after the other train has departed. Seems odd to slow down the schedules just before the new trains arrive. The old timetable seemed to work okay.

 

[The Planner]

Fair enough. Still makes no sense to omit Crewe and dump all the passengers on TfW.

It can't stop at Crewe as I said, it clashes. It has to get in front of the Avanti.

 

[Falcon1200]

Why run via Crewe if it doesn't stop there?

Presumably also to retain route knowledge in the event of problems on the Stoke route, a sensible thing to do.

 

[Bikeman78]

It can't stop at Crewe as I said, it clashes. It has to get in front of the Avanti.

It has pathing and performance time all the way from Wilmslow but it doesn't appear to be following anything. It passed Crewe several minutes early yesterday.

 

[OneOfThe48]

On the London Victoria to Dorking/Horsham line, the following trains on Saturday will be increased 10 coaches.
Departing from Carshalton:

08:45

12:15

14:45

18:15

20:45

Departing from Victoria:

07:11 Dorking

09:41

13:11

15:41

19:11

21:41

This is from the information is from this link

Some railway services are being restored from 5 carriages to 10 carriages!

After pushing forward many meetings and constantly fighting for the changes you want, I am really glad to announce that some of the services from Carshalton into London Victoria are being extended from 5 carriages to 10 carriages!

www.elliotcolburn.co.uk

This seems like 'old news' the MP has just got round to putting on his website

 

[Thomas6187]

It has pathing and performance time all the way from Wilmslow but it doesn't appear to be following anything. It passed Crewe several minutes early yesterday.

It normally following the 17:06 Manchester Piccadilly-Crewe. That service gets looped at Sandbach to let both the XC and TfW pass. Yesterday it was early because the 17:06 running 17 late by Stockport it passed it there instead

 

[The Planner]

It has pathing and performance time all the way from Wilmslow but it doesn't appear to be following anything. It passed Crewe several minutes early yesterday.

It does, but a Crewe stop is 2 minutes minimum. As noted above, it follows 2K51 which it overtakes at Sandbach on headway, so it can't go any earlier there. It has engineering allowance you cannot remove and 3 minutes allowance remaining. As noted, 2 go on the dwell, 1 won't be enough to cover the stop. 9M86 then follows it on headway down to Doxey.

 

[Bikeman78]

It does, but a Crewe stop is 2 minutes minimum. As noted above, it follows 2K51 which it overtakes at Sandbach on headway, so it can't go any earlier there. It has engineering allowance you cannot remove and 3 minutes allowance remaining. As noted, 2 go on the dwell, 1 won't be enough to cover the stop. 9M86 then follows it on headway down to Doxey.

Why wouldn't one minute be enough to stop and restart, assuming two minutes dwell? The speed through platform 1 is not very fast. Anyway, how did it stop until three years ago? Has the timetable changed significantly?

 

[jfollows]

Why wouldn't one minute be enough to stop and restart, assuming two minutes dwell? The speed through platform 1 is not very fast. Anyway, how did it stop until three years ago? Has the timetable changed significantly?

In the May 2021 timetable, 1O68 17:27 Piccadilly-Reading was 18:05 platform5 18:07 FL at Crewe. It followed 9M86 14:53 Edinburgh-Euston which was 17:59-18:02 platform5. The following booked FL service was 1A60 17:47 Liverpool-Euston at 18:22-18:24 platform5.
Today 1O68 is 18/02 platform 1 passing Crewe with 9M86 18:01.5 - 18:05 platform5 behind it.
The timetable has changed.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Has the timetable changed significantly?

Yes, Avanti recast their timetable last December.

 

[Watershed]

It does, but a Crewe stop is 2 minutes minimum. As noted above, it follows 2K51 which it overtakes at Sandbach on headway, so it can't go any earlier there. It has engineering allowance you cannot remove and 3 minutes allowance remaining. As noted, 2 go on the dwell, 1 won't be enough to cover the stop. 9M86 then follows it on headway down to Doxey.

It's nothing that couldn't be fixed with a little flexing. But Avanti are very uncooperative about such matters, insisting on maintaining "clockface" departure times even though their "clockface" pattern has all sorts of exceptions when it suits them.

 

[jamesst]

On Merseyrail, the Southport line has been retimed. Previously one train arrived four minutes before the previous diagram departed. Now the trains sit at Birkdale for three minutes and then have two minutes added for the journey to Southport, arriving after the other train has departed. Seems odd to slow down the schedules just before the new trains arrive. The old timetable seemed to work okay.

That was the autumn timetable which on Merseyrail is carried over into December, see also the amended pattern on the Chester/ Eport lines.
The normal timetables return from December 27th.

 

[The Planner]

It's nothing that couldn't be fixed with a little flexing. But Avanti are very uncooperative about such matters, insisting on maintaining "clockface" departure times even though their "clockface" pattern has all sorts of exceptions when it suits them.

Depends if XC also want the stop, they certainly don't when diverting for a Stoke block.

 

[Bikeman78]

That was the autumn timetable which on Merseyrail is carried over into December, see also the amended pattern on the Chester/ Eport lines.
The normal timetables return from December 27th.

How have I got through all of autumn without noticing this? It seems that in reality a lot of trains just depart Birkdale early and make it into Southport before the outbound train departs.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Did the Northern train via Derby ever return? I seem to recall that it was a Nottingham to Sheffield service.

 

[liamf656]

Did the Northern train via Derby ever return? I seem to recall that it was a Nottingham to Sheffield service.

That was removed as a permanent measure and the Derby route removed from route* cards

 

[D6130]

That was removed as a permanent measure and the Derby route removed from traction cards

Presumably you mean route cards!

 

[liamf656]

Presumably you mean route cards!

That would be more accurate!

 

[Sporty60]

I'm a relatively new and passive member of this excellent forum so I'm sorry if this question has been raised before.

At the next timetable change is it possible or indeed desirable to have different threads for each train company?
I realise that there might be some crossover but it would avoid Devon based people such as myself trawling through to find content relevant to their own location.

Or am I just being lazy and selfish!- be honest!

 

[FenMan]

I'm a relatively new and passive member of this excellent forum so I'm sorry if this question has been raised before.

At the next timetable change is it possible or indeed desirable to have different threads for each train company?
I realise that there might be some crossover but it would avoid Devon based people such as myself trawling through to find content relevant to their own location.

Or am I just being lazy and selfish!- be honest!

Good question! My answer is "no". People focus on their local train service of course, but local changes can have a bigger impact for those making longer journeys.

To provide an example, I'm a Farnborough football fan who lives close to Blackwater station. We play in the same league as the likes of Welling, Dartford, Chelmsford and St Albans and our clashes can be scheduled for Tuesday nights. I used to be able to go to these games on a Tuesday and get home with no issues. But not now.

My journey was comprised of three legs: get back to Waterloo, catch the 2315 to Guildford on South Western, then the 0001 to Blackwater on Great Western.

But, the South Western cutbacks post-COVID means the 2315 no longer runs M-F, even though, in my experience, it was always full to bursting as far as Guildford (due to theatre goers etc). Unfortunately for me, the current 2300 to Guildford is just too early.

I get it this is an edge case, but it is illustrative how small changes to one TOC's schedules have a knock-on effect across the network. So I now drive to midweek away fixtures - maybe that's the plan?

 

[70014IronDuke]

I'm a relatively new and passive member of this excellent forum so I'm sorry if this question has been raised before.

At the next timetable change is it possible or indeed desirable to have different threads for each train company?
I realise that there might be some crossover but it would avoid Devon based people such as myself trawling through to find content relevant to their own location.

Or am I just being lazy and selfish!- be honest!

ABSOLUTELY AGREE 100%. Mods - please note the post above.

I meant to do a post like this years ago - I forget if I ever did.

I fully understand that eg SWT TT modficiations between Surbiton and Alton (or whatever) affect a lot of people, but I just stop reading the thread, because I have never got to good grips with the myriad of southern routes.