Looks like TPE will no longer be calling at Garforth, meaning no direct connection to Huddersfield or Manchester, not sure the last time when that was the case
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December 2024 timetable change
- Thread starter Scotrail88
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Looks as though there is, however, an extension of the 22:40 arrival at York from the airport which now runs to Darlington calling at a Thirsk and Northallerton from December and ECS back which is used for route retention instead of a missing Teesside service.Yes, not surprising really as they can save probably a pair of units and a driver/conductor from sitting around for 50 minutes at Saltburn. Ever since it proved impossible (to my understanding) to get union agreement to allow breaks to be taken at Saltburn using the cabin that TPE had built for the purpose it seemed a little bonkers for TPE to spend so long at Saltburn even though it was excellent from a service reliability point of view. Of course now that they've got what appears to be around nine or ten minute turnarounds at Redcar Central it'll be interesting to see what that does to reliability. The residents of Redcar will be pleased however as it will reduce the number of times the level crossing over West Dyke road has to close as TPE will neither be shunting into the sidings nor carrying onto Saltburn!
That being said, overall, I do think it's a shame to lose the service to Saltburn for TPE. Whilst it was never doing gangbusters numbers even the last TPE of the day would have a few people on-board. I suspect if the time could have been used productively (i.e. by the crew taking their break at Saltburn) it probably wouldn't be on the chopping block, but as is, it's hard to justify a unit and crew sat doing nowt for 50 odd minutes every hour. It also kills off my dream of Marske gaining an hourly TPE service
Though I wonder if there will be some finessing of Northern's Darlington to Saltburn service required? The TPEs generally are now scheduled to depart from platform 2 at xx58 whilst the Northern services are due to arrive at platform 2 at xx03 which shouldn't be impossible but might be quite tight as the protecting signal for platform 2 not far shy of a mile away (around .85 of a mile) and in my experience it is not unusual for the signal not to clear until a departing TPE has drawn level with the Northern waiting at that signal! I'm not sure a bang on xx58 departure allows enough time for Northern to then call at Redcar Central at xx03.
On the plus side at least the stupid decision to have one train per day divert and terminate at Darlington has been reversed. No longer will the 2039 from York go to Darlington and instead it'll go to Redcar like it always should have done, that was a very frustrating development considering I often use that train to get back from York Forum meals!
Looking at RTT only the 21:47 arrival into Redcar Central is booked to shunt into the sidings which is good for the folk of Redcar as noise was equally an issue during the last Redcar services.
There does seem to be some wiggle room for late inbound running as the path from Redcar to Middlesbrough is at circa 20 minutes (with the odd hours being xx:11 to xx:19 dwell at Middlesbrough) and the even hours booked into Middlesbrough at xx:18 to fit behind the Northern Newcastle semi-fasts so may not see as many curtailed at Middlesbrough .
Looks like the 05:54 is still running from Saltburn though to maintain the connection to the first Nunthorpe at Middlesbrough for the hospital.
The three services through are for route retention for Scarborough and York, also giving the ability to reintroduce service in the future. Breaks are able to be diagrammed for crew at Saltburn and are in the current timetable.
I wonder if the service had been partially subsidised by TVCA (Tees Valley Combined Authority) since the extension, while there’s useage I suppose the arguement would come down to… is it commercially viable?
It also seems Northallerton looses out with daytime TPE service as that’s dropped from the Newcastle services apart from morning peak and late night with only the airport trains calling. It will however leave some gaps of 2 hours on a Sunday due to some services running via Longlands Loop.
Looking at RTT there appears to still be at least 1x 802 on the Scarborough to Manchester Victoria services forming from a morning Newcastle to Manchester Victoria then on an evening going back on a Manchester Victoria to Newcastle service.
jammmmmsssssss
Member
Looks like the missing crosscountry trains to Stansted won't be added this timetable
dk1
Veteran Member
That’s next May at the earliest.
jammmmmsssssss
Member
Oh ok
dk1
Veteran Member
Saturdays are not good at the moment as not only do some XC services not continue to the airport but roughly every other Norwich doesn’t make it either due to ongoing driver shortages on the west. Caught me out yesterday as my up service terminated in platform 5 making me assume engineering work yet on my return I relieved a Cambridge driver who’d worked it in from Stansted. I know there’s lots and lots of weekends with no through service this autumn/winter but hopefully they will be reintroduced with the December TT change.
jammmmmsssssss
Member
I wondered why there were Norwich services in platform 5 all day yesterday and the Ipswich services were in platform 4
blelic
Member
Talk of extra peak services between London Bridge and East Croydon I believe.
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
Presumably that results in 6 cars reverting to 3's so capacity not necessarily changed?With this announcement I thought timely to start this discussion
Is there any other TOCs announced intentions.
I would imagine only 5 weeks away before full release.
Four fast trains an hour between Leeds and Manchester will return
Rail operator scaled back its services due to the massive backlog of driver training it needed to tacklewww.examinerlive.co.uk
lione87023
Member
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It appears that the Victoria - Orpington service goes back to 4tph all day.
Brewer66
Member
Alternatively, increased use of the 19 x Class 802s available to TPE?
dodecahedron67
Member
802s used Liv - Ncl, Liv - Hull, Ncl - Edb + the 1 WCML 802 diagram
Though so far not on Saturdays
Every time I’ve seen TPE at saltburn, as soon as they arrive the units are shut down and not started again until a few minutes before departure
Class 466
Established Member
My internal contact suggests this is the allocation:
7x 802 on NCL - LIV
3x 802 on LIV - HUL
2x 802 on NCL - EDB
1x 802 on WCML
1x 802 on SCA-MCV
NCL - Newcastle
LIV - Liverpool
HUL - Hull
EDB - Edinburgh
MCV - Manchester Victoria
SCA - Scarborough
WCML - West Coast Mainline Anglo Scot service
The freed up 185s from the Hull Route strengthen some more South Route services to 6 cars from what I've been told. Also only one 3 car out on Redcar services.
I still suspect that the main driver is having a unit and crew sat for around an hour every hour at Saltburn through most of the day.
Yes fundamentally we run back into the same problems that there were when we first started playing with extensions beyond Middlesbrough as a solution to various problems around reliability (having proper turn arounds) and lack of flexibility with the layout at Middlesbrough (nowhere to really put the trains once they became 5/6-car during those turn arounds). Perhaps worth noting that when they did this originally they did have around twenty minutes turn around time, that was why they shunted out of the station to the sidings, though that could still cause the odd farce with Northern picking up knock on delays from TPE blocking P2 due to late running. No longer running to Saltburn annoyingly means we're back to having Redcar cluttered up by TPE.
That tallies with my experience as well (though admittedly I didn't use the services at Saltburn that often!). That being said a 185 is so much lounder than a 156/158 I can well imagine that the local residents were being disturbed just for the five or ten minutes that they were sat idling.
MerlinRail 804
Member
Nothing so far different for Chiltern on RTT, but I live in hope!
Really I guess they can’t do much without a new fleet of something
Really I guess they can’t do much without a new fleet of something
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Chiltern doesn't appear to be up yet?
Nothing other than the RHTTs showing for Chiltern in TRUST beyond the December TT change yet either.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
So Chiltern services are indeed not uploaded yet; I thought I'd possibly missed something.
I don't think any other TOCs than those already mentioned upthread have appeared yet?
I don't think they upload on weekends? So today is probably the first day since the last set of uploads that's like to produce something new to look at.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Good point, so possibly some other TOCs will appear during the week.
MerlinRail 804
Member
Anyone know what changes Chiltern might be making?
YorkRailFan
Established Member
RTT shows TPE's Newcastle-Edinburgh service being 5x daily in December.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Anyone know when it will become 1tp2h?
Realtime Trains | Departures from Newcastle all day on 19/12/2024
Train information at Newcastle all day on 19/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Anyone know when it will become 1tp2h?
moonarrow458
Member
On London Overground there will be later services from Watford Junction on Weekends from December. Currently the last Southbound London Overground service from Watford Junction is at 2330 on all nights of the week.
On Saturday nights there will be an additional 0008 service to Willesden Junction calling at all stations
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
On Sundays nights there will be an additional 2345 service to Willesden Junction calling at all stations
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
These services previously ran empty back to Willesden Depot. No change to the last southbound on Monday to Fridays which will still be at 2330.
On Saturday nights there will be an additional 0008 service to Willesden Junction calling at all stations
Realtime Trains | 2C74 0008 Watford Junction to Willesden Junction | 19/01/2025
Real-time train running information for 2C74 0008 departure from Watford Junction to Willesden Junction on 19/01/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
On Sundays nights there will be an additional 2345 service to Willesden Junction calling at all stations
Realtime Trains | 2C74 2345 Watford Junction to Willesden Junction | 19/01/2025
Real-time train running information for 2C74 2345 departure from Watford Junction to Willesden Junction on 19/01/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
These services previously ran empty back to Willesden Depot. No change to the last southbound on Monday to Fridays which will still be at 2330.
Iskra
Established Member
Excellent news about the South Route strengthening
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Given other TOCs have no services at all listed yet, I wouldn't get too worried
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