December 2025 East Coast Timetable

[A S Leib]

The 22:00 Edinburgh to Newcastle should make the last available departure time from Inverness to Newcastle 17:26 instead of 15:44 (assuming the Highland Main Line doesn't change much), which is a substantial improvement.

Why does the first southbound TPE of the day only call at Chester-le-Street on Mondays?

 

[Failed Unit]

This is a bit weird because it seems to be only the London Bound morning peak trains that have the extra stop, up to the 0908 departure from Welwyn Garden City. After this, the pattern lurches back to the previous times with the next at 09:52 (with only two Moorgate trains between). the northbound PM Peak trains are retimed too and like the AM trains are cut-back to Letchworth and have times skewed from the normal pattern through the day, yet these do not seem to have the New Barnet stop and neither do the off peak services. The London Bound trains are very close to the Sevenoaks trains which is a shame as the more similar the run time, the more an even 4 tph near turn up and go pattern would be suitable and would mitigate the extra run time. It was less than a decade ago that 2C13, the 08:21-ish departure from Welwyn Garden City was non-stop to Finsbury Park with a 14 minute booked time. The equivalent train in this timetable will make four additional stops and take 10 minutes longer. I have a 1930s postcard, which is a reprint of a 1930s poster for the Welwyn Garden City company advertising, "A Greatly Improved Train Service" with the fastest trains (presumably hauled by a steam tank engine such as an LNER N7) taking 23 minutes to King's Cross, where the current 700s with more installed power than a Deltic will be timed 32 minutes in this timetable! Or will they actually be 717s?

As mentioned up thread the off peak Moorgate trains remain 2 tph on each route and that is very disappointing and comes despite the good recovery of leisure traffic across the other parts of the network, in places to demand levels above that prior to the pandemic. Better news is the return of a 2 tph mid evening service from King's Cross to Welwyn Garden City, alternating between Cambridge and Letchworth. Sadly, this stops one train too early with the existing 23:27 Cambridge withdrawn and no trains between the new 23:07 and a train at 00:07 (there is also the existing 01:07 slightly re-timed).

What a strange timetable it is southbound with Knebworth gaining a call on the Peterborough service, it looks like they just can’t get it to slot together. From a personal point of view, I will probably only use the Sevenoaks services now as I suspect it will be more reliable then the Letchworth and if we are going to need to put up with class 700s, might as well get on at the beginning.

Lumo stopping all services at Stevenage is good.

Changes to Cambridge stoppers not so good (but probably balances passenger out better)

I suspect GTR staying at 2 TPH is probably down more to the fact they don’t have enough drivers to resource the full service before 2025 is the real reason. I hope we see some improvements in the future as the service beds in as this is yet another disappointment. Big wait going north at Welwyn Garden City, probably for fast trains to pass.

 

[NorthLondoner]

As I'm reading the timetable, Potters Bar, Hatfield and Welwyn Garden City will have their fast services reduced from being nearly even spaced to a 5/25 minute gap?

 

[Scotrail314209]

Good to see that the TPE frequency between Edinburgh and Newcastle has been increased, these services are always extremely busy at weekends (especially now due to the markets in Edinburgh). Hopefully the increased frequency will alleviate some of the issues.

Definitely more useful running the current Berwick-upon-Tweed service all the way to Newcastle instead of it currently carting fresh air up and down.

 

[swt_passenger]

Interesting that page 7 of the draft Weekday ECML LDHS timetable shows a reinstated 0755 CrossCountry Trains service from Southampton to Newcastle.

A bit unexpected, however the morning Reading starters would normally run empty from Eastleigh depot, so having an extended service at that time is relatively straightforward by modifying the ECS service. Still no sign of regular extensions to/from Southampton, but doing it all day at 2 hourly intervals requires an extra unit in service.

 

[bramling]

What a strange timetable it is southbound with Knebworth gaining a call on the Peterborough service, it looks like they just can’t get it to slot together. From a personal point of view, I will probably only use the Sevenoaks services now as I suspect it will be more reliable then the Letchworth and if we are going to need to put up with class 700s, might as well get on at the beginning.

Lumo stopping all services at Stevenage is good.

Changes to Cambridge stoppers not so good (but probably balances passenger out better)

I suspect GTR staying at 2 TPH is probably down more to the fact they don’t have enough drivers to resource the full service before 2025 is the real reason. I hope we see some improvements in the future as the service beds in as this is yet another disappointment. Big wait going north at Welwyn Garden City, probably for fast trains to pass.

Looks pretty negative for GN users to be honest.

Not sure what is the logic of a Letchworth to King’s Cross stopping service. The current fast peak services (only just reintroduced after Covid) are popular as they give Letchworth and Hitchin a fast service where there are plenty of seats available. Meanwhile the stopping services give connectivity around Hertfordshire towns. Both these features will be lost.

Not sure what’s the point of having a service that calls at all stations from Cambridge, doesn’t directly connect to the likes of Welwyn and Hatfield, but still isn’t as fast at reaching London as the Cambridge/Brighton service.

Meanwhile south of Stevenage is a complete mess as you say.

 

[The Planner]

A bit unexpected, however the morning Reading starters would normally run empty from Eastleigh depot, so having an extended service at that time is relatively straightforward by modifying the ECS service. Still no sign of regular extensions to/from Southampton, but doing it all day at 2 hourly intervals requires an extra unit in service.

The plan is to still get as much, if not all, of the Reading Newcastle back in for Dec 25. May 25 will have some of them.

 

[westv]

I'm disappointed to see the 17:19 from Kings X to Hull will be pushed back to 18:09.
Hopefully by Dec 2025 it will be less important for me. Now it's a lot less important than it was 2019 when i used it every week.

 

[Riverside Redz]

I'm disappointed to see the 17:19 from Kings X to Hull will be pushed back to 18:09.
Hopefully by Dec 2025 it will be less important for me. Now it's a lot less important than it was 2019 when i used it every week.

Same for the Middlesbrough return , been pushed back by about 4 hours , doesn’t get in till 21:43 , on the face of it following same mistake as with the Sunderland one

 

[A S Leib]

Lumo stopping all services at Stevenage is good.

A point I've made before, but it is strange how Stevenage will get 2 tph to Newcastle in some hours whilst Watford's set to lose most of its Preston / Scotland services.

 

[Failed Unit]

Looks pretty negative for GN users to be honest.

Not sure what is the logic of a Letchworth to King’s Cross stopping service. The current fast peak services (only just reintroduced after Covid) are popular as they give Letchworth and Hitchin a fast service where there are plenty of seats available. Meanwhile the stopping services give connectivity around Hertfordshire towns. Both these features will be lost.

Not sure what’s the point of having a service that calls at all stations from Cambridge, doesn’t directly connect to the likes of Welwyn and Hatfield, but still isn’t as fast at reaching London as the Cambridge/Brighton service.

Meanwhile south of Stevenage is a complete mess as you say.

I don't know where the traffic comes from (it may not be North of Letchworth) but a reasonable number of people get off at Welwyn Garden City and Hatfield from the ex-Cambridge trains in the peak. I am sure they won't appreciate the change. I would be surprised if Royston - Hatfield (for the university) flows didn't exist.

 

[30907]

"Longer journey times between London and Airedale. Progress by LNER."

It gets better. The southbound connections are broken as well.

A shame - it's back more or less to connections I remember from my previous sojourn in Airedale which ended in 2008.
Unfortunately there's no easy fix short of permitting sub-10-min connections (which generally would be OK for LNER<>Leeds NW).
A rejig of the timetable, essentially swapping the Leeds-Skipton and -Bradford services (and obviously Bradford-Skipton as well) looks at first sight to be possible, which would mean Skipton-London slightly faster than now and London-Skipton 5min slower. Maybe this is one for AVRUG (Aire Valley Rail Users Group)?

 

[Failed Unit]

No direct trains from Peterborough to Durham that I could see

Will East Midlands change their timetables from Peterborough to Lincoln/Doncaster via Spalding to a regular clockface service at last to fit in at both ends?

The East Midlands revamp was always planned as part of this, but doesn't seem to be in the documents.

Grimsby - Leicester was supposed to go hourly, as was Peterborough - Doncaster via Lincoln. It could still happen of course as both of these have paths dependent on the ECML restructure.

 

[30907]

Interesting to see they are proposing to extend some of the Nunthorpe services to Great Ayton. Long overdue in my opinion, but at that point why don't they just turn at Battersby instead?

If reversing at Gt Ayton is permitted then continuing to Battersby would be a waste of resources - there's nobody there - but the timing of the evening service would be too tight anyway.

I notice that the scholars of the Esk Valley have to get up 15min earlier so that the commuters can get to Middlesborough at a civilised time - Alan Williams will be delighted

 

[ainsworth74]

Same for the Middlesbrough return , been pushed back by about 4 hours , doesn’t get in till 21:43 , on the face of it following same mistake as with the Sunderland one

I'm not so sure. An 1845 departure feels like it would be more convenient for day trips to London for business or leisure than the current 1527 departure which has always felt quite early. Certainly it's far to early for me to ever make use of coming from London!

That being said I am more likely to use it from York to get home from a trip out in York. 2054 off York is about perfect for my usual trips and it has an excellent connection onto a Northern towards Saltburn as well.

 

[Peterthegreat]

I suspect there will be loads of complaints once this gets further distributed. No services from Newark to Retford will not go down well (even if there are very few travrllers).

 

[A S Leib]

Have paths for the Hull Trains Sheffield service been approved yet?

 

[swt_passenger]

The plan is to still get as much, if not all, of the Reading Newcastle back in for Dec 25. May 25 will have some of them.

That’s what I thought, but the most recent XC TAA didn’t seem to ask for any rights to ‘through to the NE‘ services starting at Southampton. Hence saying it was ‘unexpected’.

 

[ainsworth74]

Have paths for the Hull Trains Sheffield service been approved yet?

Not as yet but this timetable apparently includes them.

I suspect there will be loads of complaints once this gets further distributed. No services from Newark to Retford will not go down well (even if there are very few travrllers).

But the people of Retford do gain a direct Middlesbrough service so swings and roundabouts!

 

[swt_passenger]

If the works at Middlesbrough for P3 ever go ahead, am I right in thinking the additional services would be extensions of the Kings Cross to York terminators, so nothing would need to be retimed?

 

[Jrg]

my regular route is Wakefield Westgate or doncaster to London kings cross

new timetables look like the much heralded improvements equal some trains approx 1 minute faster than today, and some others slower than today. with no capacity changes to peak times. not really an improvement for this comsumer
sigh

 

[Riverside Redz]

I'm not so sure. An 1845 departure feels like it would be more convenient for day trips to London for business or leisure than the current 1527 departure which has always felt quite early. Certainly it's far to early for me to ever make use of coming from London!

That being said I am more likely to use it from York to get home from a trip out in York. 2054 off York is about perfect for my usual trips and it has an excellent connection onto a Northern towards Saltburn as well.

I’m just overthinking it haha, just seems well used at the moment and I don’t want that to change , likewise to yourself from York for day trips elsewhere it’s great for me. One thing I do note is that it now seems to be a direct extension of a York service which fulfils their promise of integrating the two and opening the possibility of the extensions when platform 3 is done at Middlesbrough

If the works at Middlesbrough for P3 ever go ahead, am I right in thinking the additional services would be extensions of the Kings Cross to York terminators, so nothing would need to be retimed?

I believe that’s correct yes , there were two things to be done for this to happen, the rework allowing the two to be integrated which has now happened and the second being platform 3 which is due to start being built from Jan 26

 

[JRT]

The down Skipton service not calling at Leeds is presumably a mistake (1D26).

Very strange. Doesn't appear in the local timetable either.

 

[jfollows]

Very strange. Doesn't appear in the local timetable either.

That's what I noticed too ....

 

[Magdalia]

Looks like the timetable change has just been confirmed for December 2025, and there's a joint TOC website as well.

www.lner.co.uk/news/more-seats-and-quicker-journeys-as-new-east-coast-main-line-timetable-given-green-light/

A late thanks for this!

Thameslink 9Sxx have reduced dwell time at Finsbury Pk Northbound making journeys slightly quicker

One thing that has not been commented on so far is the general retiming of the down service onto the branch.

The Kings Lynn/Ely trains now depart at xx54/xx24 off peak and xx48/xx18 peak. The down Kings Cross-Kings Lynn time is down to 101 minutes, much nearer to what it used to be 20-25 years ago.

The down stoppers are back to xx06/xx36 just like the old days.

I think this means that up Kings Lynns will form down Kings Lynns, up Elys will form down Elys and up stoppers will form down stoppers. For those that get worked up about class 700s to Ely and Kings Lynn, it looks like you have only got to put up with them until December 2025.

The Brighton trains are only moved slightly. The slightly earlier arrival at Cambridge is just as well as the return trains start a bit earlier from Cambridge at xx21/xx51.

What a strange timetable it is southbound with Knebworth gaining a call on the Peterborough service, it looks like they just can’t get it to slot together. From a personal point of view, I will probably only use the Sevenoaks services now as I suspect it will be more reliable then the Letchworth and if we are going to need to put up with class 700s, might as well get on at the beginning.

How to serve Knebworth and Welwyn North in the peaks has been an issue for a long time. In the 2009-18 timetable they were served by random calls in Peterborough and Royston trains, at least this has some consistency. What calls where is down to pathing between Hitchin and Digswell. We can't see from the information available but I suspect that the Cambridge-Kings Cross semi-fasts are booked on the up fast from Hitchin South which precludes a Knebworth call.

Looks pretty negative for GN users to be honest.

Not sure what is the logic of a Letchworth to King’s Cross stopping service. The current fast peak services (only just reintroduced after Covid) are popular as they give Letchworth and Hitchin a fast service where there are plenty of seats available. Meanwhile the stopping services give connectivity around Hertfordshire towns. Both these features will be lost.

Not sure what’s the point of having a service that calls at all stations from Cambridge, doesn’t directly connect to the likes of Welwyn and Hatfield, but still isn’t as fast at reaching London as the Cambridge/Brighton service.

By far the most important flow to/from the branch is Kings Cross-Cambridge. The Kings Cross-Cambridge peak semi-fasts are about providing more capacity on this priority. Their end to end timings are almost exactly the same as the Thameslink Brighton trains to/from St Pancras at 68-69 minutes. During the peaks there will be "no overtaking" in the peak am Cambridge-London and pm London-Cambridge flows.

I don't know where the traffic comes from (it may not be North of Letchworth) but a reasonable number of people get off at Welwyn Garden City and Hatfield from the ex-Cambridge trains in the peak. I am sure they won't appreciate the change. I would be surprised if Royston - Hatfield (for the university) flows didn't exist.

I have looked at the data, with thanks to the people here ( https://railalefan.co.uk/labs/flowstats/).

The most important flows not involving a London station are (I'm quoting 'one way' figures which is how they are presented in the source):

Stevenage-Hitchin 177680
Royston-Cambridge 143627
Hitchin-Letchworth 105132
Stevenage-Letchworth 103674
Hatfield-Welwyn GC 66905
Meldreth-Cambridge 65699
Hitchin-Cambridge 62427
Potters Bar-Hatfield 61714
Welwyn GC-Stevenage 59308
Stevenage-Cambridge 51789
Letchworth-Cambridge 48008
Hatfield-Stevenage 44917
Potters Bar-Welwyn GC 44551

Cambridge-Hatfield is 13145 and Cambridge-Welwyn GC is 10568.

The flows Royston/Baldock-Welwyn GC/Hatfield are all less than 4k. These are not completely neglected with an 0703 ex Royston starter (0715 from Letchworth) and 1757 ex Kings Cross going through to Royston. One oddity, which may be an error, is I can't find an 1827 Kings Cross-Letchworth.

 

[mm333]

The 1-in-each-direction Leeds-York LNER services will be no more. How will LNER keep route knowledge for it for when Doncaster-York is closed?

 

[DanNCL]

The 1-in-each-direction Leeds-York LNER services will be no more. How will LNER keep route knowledge for it for when Doncaster-York is closed?

Same way they do for other diversionary routes, occasional route refreshing trips when required

 

[30907]

That's what I noticed too ....

And the Esk Valley school train omits Glaisdale, which is impossible.

Proofreading errors.

 

[TheBigD]

One thing that has not been commented on so far is the general retiming of the down service onto the branch.

The Kings Lynn/Ely trains now depart at xx54/xx24 off peak and xx48/xx18 peak. The down Kings Cross-Kings Lynn time is down to 101 minutes, much nearer to what it used to be 20-25 years ago.

With the retiming of the KGX-KLN trains to leave Cambridge at xx45, this should (hopefully) reduce overcrowding between CBG and ELY on the following xx00 XC services. Currently there is a 25 minute gap between 8 car GN service and the 3 car XC service.

 

[Fishandbananas]

It’s a shame that this new service can’t run to Nottingham to allow 4 car operation, but it’s at the completely wrong side of the clock face

The 2 car Leeds to Nottingham service always looks rammed whenever I see it going north and south.