Declassified First Class on a GWR 800

[TXMISTA]

I’m travelling on the 13:31 GWR service between Temple Meads and Cardiff Central today. I’m aware that you can’t buy a first class ticket on this service and so decided to sit in the first class section on the 800 that showed up. I was confronted by a guard that asked whether or not I knew where I was sitting. I disputed this with the fact that first class is declassified for this service but he was having none of it.

Am I right in thinking that first class is declassified for an 80x on this service? I’ve never been aware of first class tickets being sold on Taunton-Cardiff’s.

 

[221129]

I’m aware that you can’t buy a first class ticket on this service

Yes you can.

 

[DazrahT]

The train is TIMETABLED as Standard Class only, you can legitimately sit in 1st Class on that train with a Standard Class ticket

 

[221129]

I’m travelling on the 13:31 GWR service between Temple Meads and Cardiff Central today. I’m aware that you can’t buy a first class ticket on this service and so decided to sit in the first class section on the 800 that showed up. I was confronted by a guard that asked whether or not I knew where I was sitting. I disputed this with the fact that first class is declassified for this service but he was having none of it.

Am I right in thinking that first class is declassified for an 80x on this service? I’ve never been aware of first class tickets being sold on Taunton-Cardiff’s.

First class is declassified, however there is no right to be able to sit in it. The Guard is well within their rights to not let anyone sit in there.

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The train is TIMETABLED as Standard Class only, you can legitimately sit in 1st Class on that train with a Standard Class ticket

Unless the Guard places it Out of Use which it appears is what they have done.

 

[DazrahT]

Where does it say OOU stickers have been put up. I very much doubt the Guard would even bother!

 

[DB]

First class is declassified, however there is no right to be able to sit in it. The Guard is well within their rights to not let anyone sit in there.


Unless the Guard places it Out of Use which it appears is what they have done.

Doesn't that rather depend on what reason the guard has given? If they claim a first class ticket is needed that would be wrong, surely?

And if it's out of use there should be signs. It makes little sense to close off part of the train and force more people closer together.

 

[221129]

Where does it say OOU stickers have been put up. I very much doubt the Guard would even bother!

You don't need OOU stickers for it to be designated OOU....

 

[DB]

You don't need OOU stickers for it to be designated OOU....

So how are passengers supposed to know not to sit there? Psychic powers?

 

[221129]

So how are passengers supposed to know not to sit there? Psychic powers?

You can lock it out, or when you go through, move them. Not best practice for sure but perfectly legitimate.

 

[DB]

You can lock it out, or when you go through, move them. Not best practice for sure but perfectly legitimate.

Clearly it wasn't locked out, and moving people out of it is at odds with the constant messaging to keep people well separated.

And none of this would apply anyway if the reason given was that a first class ticket was required. Perhaps the OP could clarify?

 

[DazrahT]

If they claim a first class ticket is needed that would be wrong, surely?

Availability of 1st Class is based on what it says in the timetable, this used to be a [1] in a real printed timetable and is not based what traction happens to turns up, so if the timetable says Standard Class only, then you can sit in 1st because the train is not timetabled to convey 1st Class.


This is why I cannot make a claim on the 0650 RUG - COV (WMT) service for lack of 1st Class, even though the train is a Class 350, I've got a 1st Class season, and sit in "1st Class" but the train is advertised Standard Class only I cannot claim. Yet if I get a train about an hour later, same journey, same traction, I can claim because it's advertised in the timetable as Standard AND 1st Class, yet WMT have declassified it so Section 31 of the NRCoT applies. The wording "service" is important.

 

[TXMISTA]

Clearly it wasn't locked out, and moving people out of it is at odds with the constant messaging to keep people well separated.

And none of this would apply anyway if the reason given was that a first class ticket was required. Perhaps the OP could clarify?

It wasn’t locked out. In fact, there were quite a few people already seated when I boarded at Temple Meads. There were also no signs suggesting that it was out of use.

 

[DB]

It wasn’t locked out. In fact, there were quite a few people already seated when I boarded at Temple Meads. There were also no signs suggesting that it was out of use.

What did the guard tell you? That you needed a first class ticket?

 

[221129]

It wasn’t locked out. In fact, there were quite a few people already seated when I boarded at Temple Meads. There were also no signs suggesting that it was out of use.

Were they all moved? I know the end first class vehicles have signage to say they are out of use to passengers.

If they claim a first class ticket is needed that would be wrong, surely?

Yes, that would be wrong.

 

[Darandio]

Availability of 1st Class is based on what it says in the timetable, this used to be a [1] in a real printed timetable and is not based what traction happens to turns up, so if the timetable says Standard Class only, then you can sit in 1st because the train is not timetabled to convey 1st Class.

And you can also be asked to move. There is no divine right to use first class accomodation if the train is desclassified.

 

[TXMISTA]

What did the guard tell you? That you needed a first class ticket?

Yes, and that it’s only declassified when there’s insufficient capacity in Standard. Instead of disputing this I decided to move to Standard and save myself from hassle.

 

[DazrahT]

And you can also be asked to move. There is no divine right to use first class accomodation if the train is desclassified.

You can be asked, but you don't have to.

 

[221129]

You can be asked, but you don't have to.

False. Please provide a source.

 

[Darandio]

You can be asked, but you don't have to.

If they want you to move, you move.

 

[221129]

Yes, and that it’s only declassified when there’s insufficient capacity in Standard. Instead of disputing this I decided to move to Standard and save myself from hassle.

Was everyone else moved as well? If so then I can't actually see they've done anything wrong other than the false claim you'd need a First Class Ticket.

 

[DB]

Yes, and that it’s only declassified when there’s insufficient capacity in Standard. Instead of disputing this I decided to move to Standard and save myself from hassle.

That would only apply where the train officially had first class and the guard decided to declassify some if it to relieve overcrowding. It wouldn't apply where first class doesn't officially exist on the train at all.

 

[DazrahT]

False. Please provide a source.

1 full month of APTIS, SPORTIS and retail training in 1999

 

[221129]

1 full month of APTIS, SPORTIS and retail training in 1999

That's not a source.

 

[DazrahT]

So your telling me that when I did my retail training with Central Trains that I was told incorrectly. Well I'll nip round to my parents and see if I've still got my course notes in their attic.

 

[Darandio]

1 full month of APTIS, SPORTIS and retail training in 1999

What on earth do defunct systems have to do with whether a member of staff can ask you to move?

So your telling me that when I did my retail training with Central Trains that I was told incorrectly. Well I'll nip round to my parents and see if I've still got my course notes in their attic.

What did they tell you?

 

[221129]

So your telling me that when I did my retail training with Central Trains that I was told incorrectly. Well I'll nip round to my parents and see if I've still got my course notes in their attic.

I'm not sure what you're retail training over 20 years ago on systems that no longer exist has to do with whether you can be asked to move or not.

 

[DazrahT]

What on earth do defunct systems have to do with whether a member of staff can ask you to move?


The systems might be defunct, the rules haven't changed

What did they tell you?

Exactly as per above

 

[Darandio]

Exactly as per above

Your retail training told you that as a passenger on a declassified service you do not have to move when a member of staff tells you to? Yeah, okay.

 

[PeterC]

Your retail training told you that as a passenger on a declassified service you do not have to move when a member of staff tells you to? Yeah, okay.

So a guard can force you to change seats for no reason except that he has just made up a new rule?

 

[Darandio]

So a guard can force you to change seats for no reason except that he has just made up a new rule?

What new rule?