Defrosting

[Tom williams]

All,

The recent snow warning and cold weather have made me wonder whether the defrosting of windscreens for trains is the same as on cars, I'd guess it would be, but just wanted confirmation please.

Tom.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Most modern trains have de-misters fitted on them.

 

[Tractor37]

In 20 years of train driving in the north of England, none of the stock I drive, have I ever had to defrost a cab window or seen any frosted over.

 

[Scott1]

Had to do it this morning, older train with ice on both sides of the window. Can of de-icer and heaters on for a bit. But late off the depot, but unavoidable. Most of our newer fleet have de-misters, but not the older ones.

 

[380101]

Have had to scrape ice off the inside window of a 156 before due to the windscreen "heater" element unit being rustier than the Titanic and therefore not working! Also had to resort to scraping the outside of the windscreen and side cab windows of 156s a few years ago.

 

[Donny_m]

I’ve found trains generally stay warm from service, finishing around midnight and being restarted around 4/5 they haven’t had time to get cold enough.

 

[Gloster]

Try coming into a signal box at 23.59 on Boxing Day when the box has been closed for two days and the coal fire is out. It is pretty miserable after any long closure, but on Boxing Day night you spend the rest of the shift wrapped in your greatcoat, the one bit of BR uniform that was quite good.

 

[SarahSanderson]

I should imagine the problem in cold weather is starting older diesels from cold. Do they have some way to heat the cylinders like the glow plugs in a car engine?

 

[01d-and]

I should imagine the problem in cold weather is starting older diesels from cold. Do they have some way to heat the cylinders like the glow plugs in a car engine?

Not sure about heaters but I guess you have seen the clips on You Tube of diesel locomotives stating up when its cold. Welcome to the forum !!

 

[King Lazy]

The 156s I drove had engine small diesel powered pre heaters (known as webastos) They often would cause excessive smoke as well and would need isolated in normal service.

I never found their use necessary for starting a unit. I never had an issue even in extremely cold weather.

I also never had to de-ice a windscreen on older traction. As 380101 mentions I have seen very rusty screen heaters and I’m sure they do ice up. I had water running down the inside of the windscreen many times on 156s.

I may well have been lucky that all the units were stabled in a way that prevented frosting maybe shielded by other trains or buildings. I have two nearly identical cars parked together over recent days and one constantly visibly ices less as it’s shielded closer to a wall regardless of use.

I always assumed the large volume of air inside a train took longer to cool than the smaller volume in a car. Also the engines being underneath and heat rising may help rather than a car where the engine is segregated generally in front. I’m sure someone scientifically minded could weigh in.

On newer traction I have had the (much larger) windscreen have a small covering of ice numerous times but never as thick as on a car and the electric demisters soon clear it.

I suspect there are a lot of variables at play but in my 20 years of service I’ve never witnessed a train window iced like a car.

I also imagine that the kinds of temperatures needed to cause such icing problems with trains would be mitigated by “frost protection” measures which usually mean running the engines for periods during stabling.

 

[dk1]

On the 745/755 Stadler fleet, like everything else, they are unbelievably good.

 

[Mat17]

I bet first gen units' windscreens used to ice over.

 

[Route115?]

I should imagine the problem in cold weather is starting older diesels from cold. Do they have some way to heat the cylinders like the glow plugs in a car engine?

We used to have four class 20s stabled near where I live - they were used to transport LUL S stock tp/from Derby. I think that they must have used ether to start up when cold. The amount of smoke emmited was incredible. I presume that new DMUs have glow plugs like any modern diesel engine.

 

[Bikeman78]

Not sure about heaters but I guess you have seen the clips on You Tube of diesel locomotives stating up when its cold. Welcome to the forum !!

This is a good one. Fascinating to watch as more and more of the cylinders join the party until it erupts into life. Interesting smoke patterns too.

 

[Hairy Bear]

I bet first gen units' windscreens used to ice over.

Oh yes. And they use to mist up terrible during rain. Important to keep a cloth with you at all times. Only ever came across one unit where there was heat coming out of the vents onto the windscreen. We put up with alot of bad cab environments during those days......but boy would I love to bring it back !

 

[Beebman]

I was once on a freezing cold 4-VEP into Waterloo when ice started to form on the *inside* of the windows, ISTR it was on a winter's morning in the late 1980s.

 

[Pokelet]

There was an instance with London Midland just before the 172's were introduced that in a really bad cold snap they were unable to use any 150's as the diesel in their tanks had frozen, mostly affecting units stabled at the rather exposed Worcester depot.

 

[uww11x]

Most companies have winter policies. When certain temperatures are hit, the company will do different things. For example -5 and below most companies will keep units and loco engines on.

 

[Bayum]

I’m on an 800 as we speak. Just been told that the toilets are not working anywhere on the train due to the piping system being frozen. Even the new dangled trains have issues!

 

[Clarence Yard]

They have a freeze drain safety system which dumps the toilet water if it gets too cold, to stop the pipes from damage. The only problem is when the depot tanking facilities also freeze up (as happened at Maliphant last night), you are sending trains off depot without any working toilets.

 

[Bayum]

They have a freeze drain safety system which dumps the toilet water if it gets too cold, to stop the pipes from damage. The only problem is when the depot tanking facilities also freeze up (as happened at Maliphant last night), you are sending trains off depot without any working toilets.

I think our train stabled at York overnight. Couldn’t find anything on RTT to suggest it had been elsewhere outside of platform 9 and the carpets etc certainly don’t look as if they’ve had a good clean from the depot.

 

[DustyBin]

This is a good one. Fascinating to watch as more and more of the cylinders join the party until it erupts into life. Interesting smoke patterns too.

It’s very satisfying when all 12 finally fire, I was willing it on!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Back in the day - we used to leave North London line EMU's "cut in" overnight to keep them warm (313 and 321 sets) , plus manual spraying and deicing of the doors , especially door runners. One of the problems identified was trodden in melting snow being packed into the door runners and then freezing in transit between stations. Hence extra de-icing at key stations like MK and Northampton.

It did make a difference.

 

[Scott1]

I’m on an 800 as we speak. Just been told that the toilets are not working anywhere on the train due to the piping system being frozen. Even the new dangled trains have issues!

I've had two 15x units do the same today, new trains, same old problems...

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Speaking from a historical standpoint, keeping units 'Prepped' (PU'd) was (is) crucial, particularly in colder months, even if standing idle for many hours. The old 24 hour rule. At many locations, including mine, our allocated 350's (class 08/09's) were left switched on in idle mode 24/7 during the colder months against any potential frost damage.

 

[gabrielhj07]

Back in the day - we used to leave North London line EMU's "cut in" overnight to keep them warm (313 and 321 sets) , plus manual spraying and deicing of the doors , especially door runners. One of the problems identified was trodden in melting snow being packed into the door runners and then freezing in transit between stations. Hence extra de-icing at key stations like MK and Northampton.

It did make a difference.

Is this image an example of that?