Delay repay: Can I claim in these two cases?

[al78]

Today was rather problematic on Southern and Thameslink trains. Signalling problems were causing significant delays to trains heading south from London. I was travelling to Lewes this morning, got the 08:29 from Horsham to Gatwick Airport intending to catch the Ore bound train which was delayed half an hour. I arrived at Lewes around 29 minutes late and without thinking I put the ticket in the barrier to exit the station, and goodbye ticket for delay repay claim. Am I correct that without evidence of a ticket I am unable to claim?

Travelling back to Horsham this afternoon I caught a train from Hassocks to Three Bridges which arrived whilst I was purchasing a ticket about 15:40. I managed (just) to board it and got to Three Bridges one minute before the Horsham train arrived at 16:01, which I boarded and a couple of minutes later it was taken out of service because a relief driver hadn't arrived. I had to wait until 16:30 for the fast Horsham-bound train. In this case, do I have a legitimate delay repay claim as I originally caught a train that was only catchable because it was delayed so the timetable was thrown out of whack, hence does my 25 minute delay getting back to Horsham count?

 

[transportphoto]

Am I correct that without evidence of a ticket I am unable to claim?

You may not have the ticket, but do you have a booking confirmation/receipt/etc? It may be worth reaching out to customer services to ask if they’d consider.

I’m not sure on the second question.

 

[Watershed]

Today was rather problematic on Southern and Thameslink trains. Signalling problems were causing significant delays to trains heading south from London. I was travelling to Lewes this morning, got the 08:29 from Horsham to Gatwick Airport intending to catch the Ore bound train which was delayed half an hour. I arrived at Lewes around 29 minutes late and without thinking I put the ticket in the barrier to exit the station, and goodbye ticket for delay repay claim. Am I correct that without evidence of a ticket I am unable to claim?

Not having your ticket isn't an automatic bar to your claim; most TOCs will accept a receipt or other evidence of purchase (e.g. booking confirmation email). If, however, you used cash to pay at a TVM and don't have a receipt, I think you'll struggle. If you paid by card at a TVM then it may be marginal.

Travelling back to Horsham this afternoon I caught a train from Hassocks to Three Bridges which arrived whilst I was purchasing a ticket about 15:40. I managed (just) to board it and got to Three Bridges one minute before the Horsham train arrived at 16:01, which I boarded and a couple of minutes later it was taken out of service because a relief driver hadn't arrived. I had to wait until 16:30 for the fast Horsham-bound train. In this case, do I have a legitimate delay repay claim as I originally caught a train that was only catchable because it was delayed so the timetable was thrown out of whack, hence does my 25 minute delay getting back to Horsham count?

I'd have said you can't claim given the circumstances. The minimum connection time at Three Bridges is 4 minutes. The connection was booked to be 15:51-16:01, so 10 minutes.

The Hassocks-Three Bridges train was running approximately 7 minutes late at the time it arrived at and departed from Hassocks, which reduced the anticipated time for connecting at Three Bridges to 3 minutes - just under the 4 minute MCT.

Therefore, at the point you bought your ticket I don't think you could have had any reasonable expectation of making the connection. Accordingly the delay was "known" about when you bought your ticket.

It's possible that a claim would nevertheless be approved, since working all of the above out takes quite a bit of legwork, and a lot of Delay Repay claims are processed automatically. The only way of knowing that you aren't, strictly speaking, entitled to Delay Repay is by checking the time of purchase shown on the bottom right of the ticket. Not all agents would necessarily go to the effort of checking that. Of course, you've got to assume a worst-case scenario where you do, so I wouldn't bother claiming.

 

[al78]

I've just checked the Sunday train times from Hassocks and my ticket.

The timing of my walk was such that I was aiming for the 15:47 service and was expecting roughly a 10 minute wait at Hassocks. I purchased my ticket at 15:35 and a train turned up heading north at the same time I was using the machine which must have been the 15:38 service (which I didn't realise existed) which I boarded and got to Three Bridges a fraction before 16:00. Since it stops at platform 4 and the Horsham-bound trains stop at platform 3 and these two platforms are adjacent, it is possible to get off one train and walk straight onto the other which is effectively what I did before it was terminated. It depends on what the rules are for connections and whether the connections have a minimum time between trains for the journey to be valid for a delay repay claim.

I have just found my receipt for the Horsham to Lewes journey, however, the receipt does not give any information about my journey, only where I purchased the ticket. Is it possible with the receipt as evidence they could accept a claim on the basis that there was a lot of disruption in the morning (purchase time 08:27) to trains travelling south on the BML?

 

[Watershed]

The timing of my walk was such that I was aiming for the 15:47 service and was expecting roughly a 10 minute wait at Hassocks. I purchased my ticket at 15:35 and a train turned up heading north at the same time I was using the machine which must have been the 15:38 service (which I didn't realise existed) which I boarded and got to Three Bridges a fraction before 16:00.

It was the delayed 15:29 that you caught (RTT link). At the time you bought your ticket, it was just about to arrive at Hassocks station and the information screens would no doubt have displayed an anticipated delay of approximately 7 minutes. Had you consulted any journey planner that uses live running data, it would have told you that the connection was impossible.

The fact that it was actually possible because it was a cross-platform interchange is, sadly, neither here nor there. You need to allow the minimum connection time for the connection to be deemed valid (i.e. in order to allow you to claim Delay Repay).

Whilst in this instance the scheduled timings gave you a valid connection, the late-running of the 15:29 service meant that the railway in essence wasn't promising that you'd make the 16:00 when you bought your ticket. Accordingly there is no recourse for having to wait for the following service due to the 16:00's cancellation.

Since it stops at platform 4 and the Horsham-bound trains stop at platform 3 and these two platforms are adjacent, it is possible to get off one train and walk straight onto the other which is effectively what I did before it was terminated. It depends on what the rules are for connections and whether the connections have a minimum time between trains for the journey to be valid for a delay repay claim.

As above, the minimum connection time at Three Bridges is 4 minutes; this is general for all connections at the station. The more sophisticated railways abroad have MCTs that vary depending on the platforms involved in a connection, but here in the UK the only variation to a MCT that the ossified data structure will allow is for an increase or decrease based on the operator(s) you are changing between.

That's a rather crude measure that perhaps works for places like Farringdon, Clapham Junction, Whitechapel or London Victoria - where there are different parts of the station used by different operators. But it doesn't work well for the likes of Three Bridges, where there's no direct link between the GTR brands and the platforms they use. Accordingly, there isn't an operator-specific MCT.

I have just found my receipt for the Horsham to Lewes journey, however, the receipt does not give any information about my journey, only where I purchased the ticket. Is it possible with the receipt as evidence they could accept a claim on the basis that there was a lot of disruption in the morning (purchase time 08:27) to trains travelling south on the BML?

The receipt should suffice so long as it shows the amount and time of purchase. If it shows any details of the ticket bought, even better, but I don't think this is strictly speaking necessary.

There is no need to prove that you were on a particular train - all Delay Repay claims for paper tickets are, to a large extent, handles based on trust alone.

 

[al78]

Thanks for the info. I checked the Train Track app on my phone earlier in the day and before that train was in service, so wasn't aware I had any chance of catching it until the point it turned up. When I was at Hassocks I didn't look at the departure screens, I just heard a train approaching and heard on the speaker the stops which included Three Bridges and Gatwick Airport and I realised I could get on that train if I could get my ticket in time so got straight on the train. I will assume I don't have a legitimate claim and anyway, I was expecting to get a later train which would have connected with the 16:30 train from Three Bridges. I will try and claim for the delay to Lewes in the morning.

 

[Iggy12a]

If you make this journey again in the future, just buy a day return from Horsham to Lewes. As Lewes - Brighton - Three Bridges - Horsham is a valid routing, your ticket is perfectly valid to return from Hassocks. Without any Railcard, a day return is £15.30, compared to the £28.10 for the two single tickets.

 

[al78]

If you make this journey again in the future, just buy a day return from Horsham to Lewes. As Lewes - Brighton - Three Bridges - Horsham is a valid routing, your ticket is perfectly valid to return from Hassocks. Without any Railcard, a day return is £15.30, compared to the £28.10 for the two single tickets.

Thanks, that didn't occur to me at the time given Lewes and Hassocks are on different lines. I am planning to walk from Southease to Hassocks at some point so presumably a return would be valid in this case.

 

[Iggy12a]

Thanks, that didn't occur to me at the time given Lewes and Hassocks are on different lines. I am planning to walk from Southease to Hassocks at some point so presumably a return would be valid in this case.

Yes, if you buy a day return from Horsham to Southease, it would be valid to make the return journey from Hassocks.