Delay repay with scheduled bus used as rail replacement

[AdamWW]

Does anybody know if there is a formal position on claiming delay repay when ticket acceptance has been arranged on service buses during planned engineering works?

I can see that claiming for a delayed bus could be impractical since there won't be easily accessible tracking information, but it should be more clear cut if a delayed train results in missing a bus.

I suppose though that to confirm the delay then the TOC would need to be able to look at the bus timetable and when they don't even have the resources to find out where bus stops are and inform passengers, it would probably be expecting a bit much.

 

[skyhigh]

Is this just a hypothetical question or does it relate to an actual journey?

 

[Watershed]

I don't think there is any such entitlement unless it is formally advertised as a rail replacement bus, operated on behalf of a TOC.

 

[AdamWW]

I don't think there is any such entitlement unless it is formally advertised as a rail replacement bus, operated on behalf of a TOC.

Seems a bit rubbish if it's replacing a timetabled service.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Is offering ticket acceptance on buses actually a thing for Network Rail services? I know it has long happened on TfL so I suppose it might happen now for the Overground. But otherwise, I am wondering if the situation would ever arise.

And if it does happen, is it ever on a long enough basis to appear in the timetable at 2200 the previous day? In that if it's just something done on the day then surely you compare your end time by bus with the scheduled end time by train: to a large extent whether the bus ran to its timetable would be irrelevant.

 

[Alan Glaum]

Is offering ticket acceptance on buses actually a thing for Network Rail services? I know it has long happened on TfL so I suppose it might happen now for the Overground. But otherwise, I am wondering if the situation would ever arise.

And if it does happen, is it ever on a long enough basis to appear in the timetable at 2200 the previous day? In that if it's just something done on the day then surely you compare your end time by bus with the scheduled end time by train: to a large extent whether the bus ran to its timetable would be irrelevant.

There are some buses as replacements re Nuneham Viaduct - not least Oxford to Swindon

 

[Fawkes Cat]

There are some buses as replacements re Nuneham Viaduct - not least Oxford to Swindon

So the answer to both my questions is 'yes'.

Many thanks. As you were.

 

[AdamWW]

Is offering ticket acceptance on buses actually a thing for Network Rail services? I know it has long happened on TfL so I suppose it might happen now for the Overground. But otherwise, I am wondering if the situation would ever arise.

And if it does happen, is it ever on a long enough basis to appear in the timetable at 2200 the previous day? In that if it's just something done on the day then surely you compare your end time by bus with the scheduled end time by train: to a large extent whether the bus ran to its timetable would be irrelevant.

Yes Transport for Wales does this during planned engineering.

In one case (the Coryton Line) they have eliminated late evening Monday to Thursday services indefinitely, supposedly due to engineering works though I find it a little hard to imagine that on a line a few miles long they are out there working on it every evening.

The printed timetables just don't show the "cancelled" services, but posters and information on the web tell you that rail tickets are valid on Cardiff Bus at those times. It might be nice if ithis information was also in the timetable leaflet.

As I said, perhaps claiming because a bus didn't run to time is a bit much to ask, but in principle if a delayed train makes you miss the bus it should be more straightforward to deal with a claim.

 

[Dai Corner]

Yes Transport for Wales does this during planned engineering.

In one case (the Coryton Line) they have eliminated late evening Monday to Thursday services indefinitely, supposedly due to engineering works though I find it a little hard to imagine that on a line a few miles long they are out there working on it every evening.

The printed timetables just don't show the "cancelled" services, but posters and information on the web tell you that rail tickets are valid on Cardiff Bus at those times. It might be nice if ithis information was also in the timetable leaflet.

As I said, perhaps claiming because a bus didn't run to time is a bit much to ask, but in principle if a delayed train makes you miss the bus it should be more straightforward to deal with a claim.

TfW's Newport-Crosskeys service is often cancelled/suspended due to shortages of trains or traincrew with ticket acceptance apparently being in place on parallel Stagecoach bus routes. If I'm bored one day that there is disruption on the buses I might travel and try claiming Delay Repay.

Would the amount be calculated with reference to the rail timetable or bus timetable? Do I include walking time between the station and bus stop? If I miss my connection to, say, Bristol at Newport can I claim for the whole journey?

 

[AdamWW]

TfW's Newport-Crosskeys service is often cancelled/suspended due to shortages of trains or traincrew with ticket acceptance apparently being in place on parallel Stagecoach bus routes. If I'm bored one day that there is disruption on the buses I might travel and try claiming Delay Repay.

Would the amount be calculated with reference to the rail timetable or bus timetable? Do I include walking time between the station and bus stop? If I miss my connection to, say, Bristol at Newport can I claim for the whole journey?

All interesting points, but my original question was about planned substitution, where there is no rail timetable for that day that could be claimed against.

 

[Haywain]

Is offering ticket acceptance on buses actually a thing for Network Rail services?

To be pedantic, Network Rail don't operate any services so the answer would be no.

 

[Dai Corner]

All interesting points, but my original question was about planned substitution, where there is no rail timetable for that day that could be claimed against.

That's the case most days. Sorry if my post didn't make that clear. By implication, the bus timetable is the rail timetable too.

 

[AdamWW]

That's the case most days. Sorry if my post didn't make that clear. By implication, the bus timetable is the rail timetable too.

But is this announced in advance or just (albeit frequently) on a day by day basis?

(Personally I don't quite understand how most days they can say "more trains than usual needing repairs" - what do they mean by usual?)

 

[Haywain]

But is this announced in advance or just (albeit frequently) on a day by day basis?

Well, it can't be both planned and unplanned can it? Schrodinger's RRB?!

(Personally I don't quite understand how most days they can say "more trains than usual needing repairs" - what do they mean by usual?)

They mean that fleet utilisation has an allowance for a certain amount of the fleet undergoing maintenance. That's what the 'usual' is.

 

[Dai Corner]

But is this announced in advance or just (albeit frequently) on a day by day basis?

(Personally I don't quite understand how most days they can say "more trains than usual needing repairs" - what do they mean by usual?)

I don't check every day, but I think they've removed the service from the timetable but occasionally, when they can spare a train and crew, it reappears. There's no mention in Journeycheck about cancellations.

 

[AdamWW]

Well, it can't be both planned and unplanned can it? Schrodinger's RRB?!

Eh?

Stating the obvious....

Sometimes there will be engineering work planned well in advance. Passengers are told there will be no trains on certain dates and instead they can use their ticket on a bus.

At other times on the day the trains that were planned to run (in the "timetable of the day") will not run but instead passengers can use the bus.

These are not the same and Delay Repay will treat the two situations differently.

I was asking about the first one.

They mean that fleet utilisation has an allowance for a certain amount of the fleet undergoing maintenance. That's what the 'usual' is.

Yes I assumed that's what they mean. But it's not what they say.

When it is usual to be unable to run a full service because there aren't enough trains available, it is no longer true to use the phrase "more trains than usual" to describe the situation. More trains than they planned for, yes. But not more trains than usual.

I don't check every day, but I think they've removed the service from the timetable but occasionally, when they can spare a train and crew, it reappears. There's no mention in Journeycheck about cancellations.

Ah fair enough. They aren't offering a pdf timetable at all for Ebbw Vale from the timetable change.

 

[Haywain]

At other times on the day the trains that were planned to run (in the "timetable of the day") will not run but instead passengers can use the bus.

These are not the same and Delay Repay will treat the two situations differently.

I was asking about the first one.

They are treated differently but both are announced in advance - even if not much in advance.