Deployment of the Revolution Very Light Rail Variant

[norbitonflyer]

Important point, although if a High Peak bus outstation was built on the Bakewell Road side of town, you'd miss the tailbacks on Fairfield Road at least.

Land in the area and planning permission is very difficult to acquire, I wouldn't be so sure.

Both ends of the proposed route are outside the National Park, which will help

 

[Greybeard33]

A bus option would struggle to run reliably to any timetable on busy weekends, especially bank holidays, when roads into Buxton can be slow moving. Beating these queues would be an attraction of the rail option.

The normal road journey time between Buxton station and Blackwell Mill is only 10 minutes, so one bus could work a 30 minute timetable with 10 minutes recovery time per circuit to allow for traffic delays. At busy times, such as summer weekends and bank holidays, it might be possible to add an extra bus.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The normal road journey time between Buxton station and Blackwell Mill is only 10 minutes, so one bus could work a 30 minute timetable with 10 minutes recovery time per circuit to allow for traffic delays. At busy times, such as summer weekends and bank holidays, it might be possible to add an extra bus.

That ten minutes "recovery time" would actually be the dwell time (five minutes at each end) to load and unload bicycles, if that is the purpose of the service.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Both ends of the proposed route are outside the National Park, which will help

Doesn't really help with the land needed for an outstation (required what ever road based form of transport you choose to ensure a reliable service). Land is expensive and difficult to acquire in the area, whether inside or outside of the PDNP

 

[norbitonflyer]

Doesn't really help with the land needed for an outstation (required what ever road based form of transport you choose to ensure a reliable service). Land is expensive and difficult to acquire in the area, whether inside or outside of the PDNP

As already mentioned, the site of the short-lived Cheedale Halt looks perfect - the Halt was built for exactly that purpose of giving access to the Monsal Trail, by running a DMU service from Edale to Cheedale, via the east side of the Chinley triangle)

Finding a site in Buxton would be more of a challenge, but there are some possible locations (identified from Street View, not local knowledge)

• Where the line runs alongside Ashwood Park (about 600m from the station).
• At the point where the existing line diverges from the track bed of the old line into Buxton Midland, (about 400m from the station). The old trackbed appears largely intact on Street View, except for a very recent building at the station end (not there in 2015), and it looks possible to use that as a footpath/ cycle path to an access point either where the trackbed crosses over Charles Street (and under the line to Hindlow) or via Aldi's car park, next to the new building.
• The transfer sidings next to Hogshaw Recreation Ground (where trains from Hindlow quarry reverse to access the Cheedale line). There appears to be access to the trackside at the southern end, via Hogshaw Villas Road (800 metres from the station)
• Buxton station: would require a reversal in the transfer sidings, and the layout on the aproach would not allow complete separation of light rail from heavy rail. Even if a platform were available.

There is no direct access from the Manchester line to the Cheedale line - a double reversal in the station and the Hogshaw sidings would be necessary.

Alternatively, (or even as well) you could run in the other direction from Cheedale (as the 1987 service did). The site of Peak Forest station could be used if arrangements could be made with GBRf, whose traincrew depot it now is, but it is in the middle of nowhere (nearest operational passenger station is Dove Holes, nearly two miles away). Chapel-en-le-Frith looks more promising - the old Midland Railway "Central" station is over a mile from the extant LNWR "South" one, but the Midland line passes within 100 yards of the LNWR station and there is an access point on Loverose Lane.

 

[Greybeard33]

Alternatively, (or even as well) you could run in the other direction from Cheedale (as the 1987 service did). The site of Peak Forest station could be used if arrangements could be made with GBRf, whose traincrew depot it now is, but it is in the middle of nowhere (nearest operational passenger station is Dove Holes, nearly two miles away). Chapel-en-le-Frith looks more promising - the old Midland Railway "Central" station is over a mile from the extant LNWR "South" one, but the Midland line passes within 100 yards of the LNWR station and there is an access point on Loverose Lane.

The proposal that is the topic of this thread does not include the possibility of a VLR service north from Blackwell Mill on the freight line through Peak Forest to Chapel en le Frith. Only west from Blackwell Mill to Buxton.

There is mention of a possible future service from Buxton to the Tissington and High Peak Trails, which would presumably use the freight line to Dowlow.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The proposal that is the topic of this thread does not include the possibility of a VLR service on the Peak Forest freight line.

There is mention of a possible future service from Buxton to the Tissington and High Peak Trails, which would presumably use the freight line to Dowlow.

I beg to differ. As the OP says

In April 2022, working with Eversholt Rail, TDI, Northern Trains, the Friends of Buxton Station and the Community Rail Partnership, the Town Team commissioned a scoping study to look at the possibility of running the recently developed Revolution Very Light Rail, VLR, vehicle from Buxton Station to the beginning of the Monsal Trail at Blackwell Mill.

The cited article says "Buxton has made it to the final three nationwide in a new project which would see electric passenger trains run on the freight lines to Monsal, Tissington and High Peak Trails."

There appears to be about 50 metres of disused trackbed between the headshunt at Dowlow Quarry and the beginning of the High Peak Trail (from which the Tissington Trail branches off further along)

At the Buxton end, the Hogshaw reversing siding could be used by either line, or it may be possible to provide a walking/cycle route from the station, alongside the railway, to a loading point within the triangle formed by the LNWR Hindlow and Manchester lines and the disused Midland spur into the station. (I didn't consider this for the Peak Forest route because of the need to cross the Dowlow line to reach it) A 15metre wide island platform could serve both the Peak Forest and Dow lines

Street View shows building work going on in the triangle in 2022, so not clear what access would now be possible.

 

[Greybeard33]

I beg to differ. As the OP says

Previous post edited for clarity. My point was that the possibility of a VLR service from Blackwell Mill towards Peak Forest and Chapel en le Frith is your speculation. The proposal is to run in the other direction, to Buxton.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Previous post edited for clarity. My point was that the possibility of a VLR service from Blackwell Mill towards Peak Forest and Chapel en le Frith is your speculation. The proposal is to run in the other direction, to Buxton.

Point taken. In any case, Chapel-en-le-Frith wouldn't work for the Tissington/High Peak trails.

 

[AlastairFraser]

As already mentioned, the site of the short-lived Cheedale Halt looks perfect - the Halt was built for exactly that purpose of giving access to the Monsal Trail, by running a DMU service from Edale to Cheedale, via the east side of the Chinley triangle)

Finding a site in Buxton would be more of a challenge, but there are some possible locations (identified from Street View, not local knowledge)

• Where the line runs alongside Ashwood Park (about 600m from the station).
• At the point where the existing line diverges from the track bed of the old line into Buxton Midland, (about 400m from the station). The old trackbed appears largely intact on Street View, except for a very recent building at the station end (not there in 2015), and it looks possible to use that as a footpath/ cycle path to an access point either where the trackbed crosses over Charles Street (and under the line to Hindlow) or via Aldi's car park, next to the new building.
• The transfer sidings next to Hogshaw Recreation Ground (where trains from Hindlow quarry reverse to access the Cheedale line). There appears to be access to the trackside at the southern end, via Hogshaw Villas Road (800 metres from the station)
• Buxton station: would require a reversal in the transfer sidings, and the layout on the aproach would not allow complete separation of light rail from heavy rail. Even if a platform were available.

There is no direct access from the Manchester line to the Cheedale line - a double reversal in the station and the Hogshaw sidings would be necessary.

Alternatively, (or even as well) you could run in the other direction from Cheedale (as the 1987 service did). The site of Peak Forest station could be used if arrangements could be made with GBRf, whose traincrew depot it now is, but it is in the middle of nowhere (nearest operational passenger station is Dove Holes, nearly two miles away). Chapel-en-le-Frith looks more promising - the old Midland Railway "Central" station is over a mile from the extant LNWR "South" one, but the Midland line passes within 100 yards of the LNWR station and there is an access point on Loverose Lane.

Apologies for the confusion - I thought you were proposing a bus based alternative to this plan. I worked in Buxton for several years until this January, and I think a modular platform in Ashwood Park would be the easiest. It's close-ish to both Spring Gardens and Higher Buxton, and not too far from Buxton station.
Only issue you'd have to sort out is the occasional flooding on Bakewell Rd near to Ashwood Park.

 

[mwmbwls]

Last weekend, I attended the Great Central Railway Gala – primarily to indulge my interest in railway architecture but I was overwhelmed by the performance of the railway in terms of the number of trains run, the special on train dining service and the number of volunteers dressed in fancy dress to support the “Oh Mr. Porter” theme to support what one could only describe as a festival.

The line is destined to be rejoined to the Northern section from Loughborough to Nottingham by a pragmatically designed viaduct in Loughborough for which funds are now being raised. The future Nottingham terminus will be at Clifton where, following the precedent recently set by Blackpool Tram’ s North Station extension, there will be a direct link to Nottingham’s trams.

There was free or supervised access to facilities that you could not normally visit. My thanks to the Signalman who showed me round his box at Rothley,

The final treat of the day was the ability to photograph locomotives not in service at the depot in Loughborough. I saw the Revolution VLR for the first time. This sort of vehicle on the Great Central will save hammering more elderly assets and facilitate track inspection. The length of test run available at Loughborough will also facilitate the VLR’s endurance testing.

If the VLR’s test programme follows aviation practice and requires real bodies to simulate loads I am sure that this is an area that fellow Rail UK members could offer the weight of their experience together with their physical weight .

 

[Mr. SW]

The final treat of the day was the ability to photograph locomotives not in service at the depot in Loughborough. I saw the Revolution VLR for the first time. This sort of vehicle on the Great Central will save hammering more elderly assets and facilitate track inspection. The length of test run available at Loughborough will also facilitate the VLR’s endurance testing.

If the VLR’s test programme follows aviation practice and requires real bodies to simulate loads I am sure that this is an area that fellow Rail UK members could offer the weight of their experience together with their physical weight .

A grab shot from yesterday

Picture VLR railcar at Beeches Road Loughborough,

 

[mwmbwls]

A grab shot from yesterday
View attachment 160472
Picture VLR railcar at Beeches Road Loughborough,

Thank you, Does anybody have further details as to the nature and duration of the VLR's appearance on the GCR- for example: snagging,mileage accumulation,etc.?

 

[Mr. SW]

Another picture: (Yesterday 19/06/24) VLR Railcar at Quorn just about go back to Rothley wrong line.

It was running up and down the Down line between Quorn and Rothley. I think the signal box was switched out and all the signals were off (clear).
Today (20/06/24) the railcar was running between scheduled services, but it was not available for use by the public.

 

[Gostav]

Do they have any relationship with this one?(Prototype of Class 139?) I took this shot when I visited SVR in May and a SVR staff told me the company that owned the vehicle has gone bankrupt.

 

[Grumpy]

Why do we keep throwing public money at this sort of nonsense?
Factor in the cost of traincrew over the limited passenger capacity, and the resultant overall cost per passenger is likely to be such that any realistic fares revenue is unlikely to meet the costs.
BR learnt this with the modernisation plan railbuses (at least one of which I recall seeing in Buxton shed) which didn't last long.
Then in the late 1970's we had BR building LEV 1 etc and despite all the bull about potential UK use and world-wide export potential resulted in zero sales.
If there's a viable demand for a train of this capacity why not simply try one of the parked up 153's?

 

[renegademaster]

If there's a viable demand for a train of this capacity why not simply try one of the parked up 153's?

It's supposed to be more an enviro200 sized battery tram rather than something for heavy rail,

 

[Northerngirl]

Railbuses are a kind of sensible idea for small branch lines, this thing seems to be for new / reopened lines, I'd hope a new line would be in enough demand that it needs the capacity of a full size train

 

[james_the_xv]

Why do we keep throwing public money at this sort of nonsense?

Prove the concept and you can roll out VLR at a fraction of the cost of trams, with greater frequency than buses. Opens up possibilities for pedestrianisation of town centres, and park and rides, and effective links to mainline stations that don't sit directly in the centre of towns/cities.

Factor in the cost of traincrew over the limited passenger capacity, and the resultant overall cost per passenger is likely to be such that any realistic fares revenue is unlikely to meet the costs.

I believe most VLR proposals have them operating autonomously, with 'captains' (Like the DLR).

If there's a viable demand for a train of this capacity why not simply try one of the parked up 153's?

Because they're far more expensive to operate and require heavy rail infrastructure.

 

[nwales58]

This episode of re-inventing light rail also includes lightweight track. Easily-removable track would mean you don't bother diverting utilities whatsoever. As and when they need access you lift the track then put it back down. For some reason I can't get Gromit (or a penguin) out of my mind.

Rename autonomous as AI and you have another viable funding bid.

Not on the menu is changing the institutional framework for street works. For some reason DE CH AT NL BE ... manage to put track down and wires up without having a 5 year nervous breakdown. Might be related to local authorities with stronger powers acting in the common good, also owning some of the utility distribution networks helps.

 

[Northerngirl]

This episode of re-inventing light rail also includes lightweight track. Easily-removable track would mean you don't bother diverting utilities whatsoever. As and when they need access you lift the track then put it back down. For some reason I can't get Gromit (or a penguin) out of my mind.

Wasn't that the equally stupid Coventry one not this thing

 

[nwales58]

Wasn't that the equally stupid Coventry one not this thing

Correct. I'm getting more confused.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Do they have any relationship with this one?(Prototype of Class 139?) I took this shot when I visited SVR in May and a SVR staff told me the company that owned the vehicle has gone bankrupt.

It is indeed the 2002 prototype Parry People Mover (the production vehicles - class 139 - have been operating the Stourbridge Shuttle since 2009).

The PPM company was wound up last year following the death at the age of 85 of its founder, John Parry.