Derailment in Kent between Ashford and Canterbury (26/07)

[6Gman]

Glad to see it stayed upright! On a lighter note I was amused to see the Telegaph article which shows a stock image of a cow, just in case you didn't know what one looked like:roll:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/11764577/Southeastern-train-derailed-by-cows-on-line-in-Kent.html

And over on Farmforums.co.uk somebody will be pointing out that the photograph shows a Holstein cow whereas the cattle in question were Hereford bullocks!

Thank goodness it was a safe outcome (except for said cows).
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If you go to www.liberalengland.blogspot.co.uk you can get an eyewitness account from a passenger.

 

[doningtonphil]

Network Rail seem to be taking the risks involved very seriously on the WCML. on a recent trip south bound through Cumbria I saw an ongoing installation of a fairly meaty 8ft powder coated steel anti vandal fence separating the line from a cow field

 

[MidlandMainlie]

Glad to see it stayed upright! On a lighter note I was amused to see the Telegaph article which shows a stock image of a cow, just in case you didn't know what one looked like:roll:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/11764577/Southeastern-train-derailed-by-cows-on-line-in-Kent.html

Is it me or does that cow have har like Anne Widdecombe? .o:

 

[SpacePhoenix]

From the looks of the vid it's probably damaged the leading bogie, wouldn't be surprised if it's also damaged the coupling, what else is likely to have been damaged?

 

[Bald Rick]

One imagines that the driver's underwear was damaged beyond repair.

(Brilliant effort by the way).

 

[Antman]

Operation stack is back on again this morning which should makes the RRS interesting!!

 

[306024]

There was a derailment in 1996 near Hatfield Peveral when a class 321 hit some cows on the line.

As I recall that was a 12 car 321 in the evening peak. Fortunately being a Liverpool St to Witham service it was quite empty by Hatfield Peverel. The wheels of one bogie of the second or third coach derailed, so the train remained much more upright than in this incident. Around nine cows were killed though, so again it could have been much more serious.

 

[Antman]

There have been claims on local news bulletins that SET/NR had been notified an hour before the accident about animals on the line, not an uncommon occurrence on this section of line
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Operation stack is back on again this morning which should makes the RRS interesting!!

 

[306024]

I remember when this happened when I worked on the LTS and a Class 308 ploughed into some cattle. Not a wheel left the track.

Someone at control had a sense of humour as the incident was logged as "Bovine Intervention".

Some Controllers at Liverpool St would use the phrase 'Bovine / Equine / Ovine Incursion' as appropriate to log reports of animals on the line.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Do the Javelins run along the same line? If they do, had it been a Javelin would it likely have fared any better/worse then an Electrostar?

 

[DarloRich]

Network Rail seem to be taking the risks involved very seriously on the WCML. on a recent trip south bound through Cumbria I saw an ongoing installation of a fairly meaty 8ft powder coated steel anti vandal fence separating the line from a cow field

it is being erected along the whole line

 

[Starmill]

There was a derailment that could've killed or injured people and you're whinging about a lack of an alert from NRE? :roll:

I'm glad that nobody was hurt - hope the train crew are ok too.

I don't think there's anything stopping anyone being simultaneously and independently concerned about both a potentially very serious accident and the way NRE handles passenger information during disruption. I admit that they are of course very different types of concern, but NRE's job has nothing to do with preventing accidents, and only serves to inform.

 

[Mintona]

Do the Javelins run along the same line? If they do, had it been a Javelin would it likely have fared any better/worse then an Electrostar?

Yes.

Probably no different.

 

[Carlisle]

There have been claims on local news bulletins that SET/NR had been notified an hour before the accident about animals on the line

Yes it also adds that a train was sent under caution and after reporting no problems normal line speed was resumed

 

[Antman]

Yes it also adds that a train was sent under caution and after reporting no problems normal line speed was resumed

That wasn't mentioned on the report I heard

 

[AndyNLondon]

Yes it also adds that a train was sent under caution and after reporting no problems normal line speed was resumed

That wasn't mentioned on the report I heard

The BBC article says "Network Rail said it had received a report of a stray cow on the line about an hour before the derailment. That report was investigated but nothing was found."

 

[Antman]

The BBC article says "Network Rail said it had received a report of a stray cow on the line about an hour before the derailment. That report was investigated but nothing was found."

The report I heard was on commercial radio, I repeat no mention of it being investigated

 

[MarkyT]

I recall at Polmont the initial derailment was due to a large and particularly solid bone being caught between the rail and wheel which lifted the bogie to such an extent that flange guidance was no longer effective and the leading bogie left the rails pulling following bogies and vehicles with it. I expect something similar occurred here. Whilst messy and likely to damage systems on the bogies and slung under the car body, collisions with livestock very rarely cause derailment, but if you're unlucky and that big bone gets right under the wheel in the critical position. . . .

There's a similarity to collisions with road vehicles on crossings. In most cases the train, whilst sustaining front end damage, will be ok structurally and will remain on the rails, whilst the road vehicle is usually destroyed completely. If the car's engine block or some other solid uncrushable casting gets stuck under the wheel in that crucial position however, then derailment can occur as happened at Lockington.

 

[Carlisle]

The report I heard was on commercial radio, I repeat no mention of it being investigated

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ned-of-cows-near-tracks-before-kent-collision

 

[Antman]

The line will remain closed until at least Thursday

 

[carriageline]

Jesus Christ, what are people asking for? If a couple of trains have been put through, and nothing seen then why keep a caution on?

I've had it plenty of times, daisy goes for a walk, a few trains go by and all of a sudden she's back in her field. If the cow then decides to go walkabouts again, it's a completely separate incident.

 

[Antman]

Jesus Christ, what are people asking for? If a couple of trains have been put through, and nothing seen then why keep a caution on?

I've had it plenty of times, daisy goes for a walk, a few trains go by and all of a sudden she's back in her field. If the cow then decides to go walkabouts again, it's a completely separate incident.

Is blaspheming really necessary?

 

[infobleep]

What if the radio fails, the driver can't leave the cab, the 'plan b' also fails because of the impact, 'plan c' is also damaged so dosnt work properly...how many back up plans are needed?!

The radio (GSMR) is designed not to fail. It's linked up to a unique power supply as back up which isn't dependant on the trains power or battery-it has its own power supply for these kind of situations. Obviously this situation was serious enough to also damage the back up supply and so the driver followed training to get in touch with the signaller by the next best means (ie emergency protection).

As I say, no back up is 100% going to work and situations as serious as this where a train derails and blocks another line are incredibly rare.

What the driver have placed detonators on the ground to protect the train? How does it work these days.

As for the earlier reports. All there needs to be is a slight negative issue and the press will pounce, regardless of the mitigating circumstances. In fact, if they can ignore them they will.

I often read the start of a newspaper report and then before deciding whether to read the middle.

 

[bramling]

Jesus Christ, what are people asking for? If a couple of trains have been put through, and nothing seen then why keep a caution on?

I've had it plenty of times, daisy goes for a walk, a few trains go by and all of a sudden she's back in her field. If the cow then decides to go walkabouts again, it's a completely separate incident.

I agree that whether or not a previous train had been asked to examine the line is irrelevant. The main issue is that the obstruction should not have been on the line in the first place, for me that's the main lesson to learn.

For all the focus on how wonderful modern technology is, presumably in this case a possible follow-on collision was avoided by good old-fashioned technology of handsignals, handlamp and/or detonators.

 

[A-driver]

What the driver have placed detonators on the ground to protect the train? How does it work these days.

As for the earlier reports. All there needs to be is a slight negative issue and the press will pounce, regardless of the mitigating circumstances. In fact, if they can ignore them they will.

I often read the start of a newspaper report and then before deciding whether to read the middle.

Emergency protection hasn't really changed. Still track circuit clips on affected lines (where track circa exist) then walk 1.25miles to lay the dets unless you come across the 4Ts or a signal box.

 

[sd0733]

There was the usual terrible article in the London Evening Standard yesterday under the headline 'cow on the line!' And some muppet whingeing that it was the latest excuse to come from Southeastern.

 

[infobleep]

Emergency protection hasn't really changed. Still track circuit clips on affected lines (where track circa exist) then walk 1.25miles to lay the dets unless you come across the 4Ts or a signal box.

Thanks for that explanation. Walking 1.25 miles would take some time. As in about 20 minutes I reckon but then that's not taking into account it'd a railway environment.

If their was an emergency, wouldn't another train pass within that time? I honestly don't know.

As much as I don't want these events to happen, I like like it when something old fashioned gets used once in a while. Prefer it to be something other than a derailment of course.
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There was the usual terrible article in the London Evening Standard yesterday under the headline 'cow on the line!' And some muppet whingeing that it was the latest excuse to come from Southeastern.

It's the Evening Standard. Enough said. At least it's not the Metro.

Tonight they had a report on migrants hit by trains and injured.

All of a sudden then mentioned yet mores deaths as if they had died when they hadn't. I wonder if they do cut and paste paragraphs from previous news reports and in this case forgot to edit out the sentence not required.

 

[A-driver]

Thanks for that explanation. Walking 1.25 miles would take some time. As in about 20 minutes I reckon but then that's not taking into account it'd a railway environment.

If their was an emergency, wouldn't another train pass within that time? I honestly don't know.

As much as I don't want these events to happen, I like like it when something old fashioned gets used once in a while. Prefer it to be something other than a derailment of course.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's the Evening Standard. Enough said. At least it's not the Metro.

Tonight they had a report on migrants hit by trains and injured.

All of a sudden then mentioned yet mores deaths as if they had died when they hadn't. I wonder if they do cut and paste paragraphs from previous news reports and in this case forgot to edit out the sentence not required.

The point of emergency protection is that it deals with the worst case scenario. If you had to carry it out between Hitchin and Stevenage you wouldn't get anywhere near 1.25 miles before you encountered a train or telephone (not at that location but also tunnels, trailing junctions and signal boxes cut the walk short). But on a rural line somewhere in northern Scotland you may well find yourself walking the full 1.25 miles. I believe 1.25 miles is specified as all trains should be able to be brought to a stand within that distance after exploding he dets.

 

[Domh245]

The point of emergency protection is that it deals with the worst case scenario. If you had to carry it out between Hitchin and Stevenage you wouldn't get anywhere near 1.25 miles before you encountered a train or telephone (not at that location but also tunnels, trailing junctions and signal boxes cut the walk short). But on a rural line somewhere in northern Scotland you may well find yourself walking the full 1.25 miles. I believe 1.25 miles is specified as all trains should be able to be brought to a stand within that distance after exploding he dets.

Out of interest, what would happen to a driver if he stops within the 1.25 miles before reaching the incident train? Would they then proceed forward at cautionary speed ready to stop, or would they just sit there and wait for somebody from the other train to come to them?

 

[tsr]

Emergency protection hasn't really changed. Still track circuit clips on affected lines (where track circa exist) then walk 1.25miles to lay the dets unless you come across the 4Ts or a signal box.

Small point of pedantry - I was always emphatically taught to lay track circuit clips on all affected lines whether or not track circuits exist. The reason given was that some lines do not have a very visible boundary between track circuit / non track circuited areas so it's always best to do it as a failsafe against misinterpreting or forgetting the minutiae of your route knowledge. It also helps build a core routine.

I think the pretty-much universal procedure is a fantastic testament to the basis of how established our emergency protection rules have become, and in this case it seems that they worked - one or another part of the emergency protection procedures may have saved a number of lives.