Derailment near Grange Over Sands

[RPM]

View attachment 155525
The pumps were back in action

View attachment 155526

The train hit the wall hard enough to send all this masonry down the bank, about 50m after derailing

View attachment 155527

The train is still waiting to be towed away. I presume the cable ties are to stop damaged parts from fouling the track or the skates - any better information available?

I don't sign the stock but it looks like a Track Circuit Actuator hanging loose. That said, this appears be an inner bogie, not a leading one so that doesn't quite ring true.

 

[King Lazy]

This has been puzzling me. In the olden days the coast route was restricted to short frame (57'6" = 17.5metres) dmus - mainly class 108s: indeed the three class 129 parcels units were built specially for the line and, unlike the other parcel units, were short frame. I assumed the long frame 64'6" designs were barred because of greater throwover on bends (the same reason they were not allowed in the Hotel Curve at Kings Cross)

Scroll forward to now, and the 20 metre 150s (about the same length as a 64'6" long-frame 1st generatiuon DMU) are apparently barred, but it seems the even longer 23m 156s (and 153s when Northern had some) are allowed. What has changed?

And where do the (even longer) 195s fit (or not!) into this?

I was told many years ago it’s to do with width rather than length. The 150s are slightly wider than 153/156. The issue would be two meeting at the narrower “six-foot” beneath Bullgill bridge.

View attachment 155525
The pumps were back in action

View attachment 155526

The train hit the wall hard enough to send all this masonry down the bank, about 50m after derailing

View attachment 155527

The train is still waiting to be towed away. I presume the cable ties are to stop damaged parts from fouling the track or the skates - any better information available?

I may be wrong as I don’t sign 195s but I believe the cable tied part is the anti-roll bar.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The issue would be two meeting at the narrower “six-foot” beneath Bullgill bridge.

Of course - longer vehicles have to be narrower because of the greater throwover.

If it's just the one location, appropriate signalling should be a solution. (This was done, I think, on tbhe St Marys Curve on the Underground, only used for stock transfers in latter days, to prevent to A stocks meeting each other on the curve.

Gauntletting or singling the track could be used as well as signalling, but probably unnecessary unless clearances between the bridge and dynamic envelope are also tight.

 

[RPM]

I was told many years ago it’s to do with width rather than length. The 150s are slightly wider than 153/156. The issue would be two meeting at the narrower “six-foot” beneath Bullgill bridge.


I may be wrong as I don’t sign 195s but I believe the cable tied part is the anti-roll bar.

Cheers. That makes sense.

 

[aviamonix]

If you're discussing why 195s don't go up the cumbrian coast i belive it is becaues of the bridges north of workington

 

[randyrippley]

If you're discussing why 195s don't go up the cumbrian coast i belive it is becaues of the bridges north of workington

there have been several threads discussing the problems of clearance on the Cumbrian coast and the consensus appears to be that there's a problem with narrow bridges and a tunnel

 

[Green tractor]

there have been several threads discussing the problems of clearance on the Cumbrian coast and the consensus appears to be that there's a problem with narrow bridges and a tunnel

I wonder if they could move the 195s out at night, under a possession? 950001 (a class 150) does run down that line, but it's always early in a morning when nothing else is running.

 

[driver9000]

I don't sign the stock but it looks like a Track Circuit Actuator hanging loose. That said, this appears be an inner bogie, not a leading one so that doesn't quite ring true.

It's a damper. The TCA is on the cab end bogie and this is the gangway end bogie as you can see the sand hopper. It also appears that brake calipers have either been ripped off or removed.

 

[RPM]

It's a damper. The TCA is on the cab end bogie and this is the gangway end bogie as you can see the sand hopper. It also appears that brake calipers have either been ripped off or removed.

Cheers.

 

[BrianW]

View attachment 155524

Work site on Sunday afternoon, from the saltmarsh side

Thank you for this excellent pic (and the others too!). IIUC it's going to take some effort (and time) to get anything past from the track beyond the Flannery vehicle. It looks like it may be that a wide(r) culvert is under construction (or at least consideration?) to take standing water on the golf course to the saltmarsh en route toward the estuary. Is anyone clear what 'the plan' is?- I hope so!

The full report in cumbriacrack goes further than the passage quoted. In particular, Tim says:
“To Network Rail I would like to ask you the following questions:

• How confident are you that there aren’t any more voids under the trackbed, along any other part of the stretch of track along the bay?
• Have you investigated any link between the reported incident item 109 report 6J89 which happened at 1.15am on Wednesday 20th when the ballast tamper had reported it had struck a water pipe, and this incident which happened just 53 hours later?
• Was there any intervention by Network Rail or any of its contractors to address the leak caused by this incident in the intervening period between the strike and the derailment?
• Would you also please clarify whether the water pipe struck by the tamper on Wednesday 20th was or was not one of the pipes across the track next to the sink hole which are used to pump floodwater from the golf club into the bay?"

All good questions, I'd say.

Although this item: https://www.geplus.co.uk/news/inves...h-tracks-after-cumbria-derailment-26-03-2024/
may be 'old news' by now, it does indicate a range of possible contributory 'factors', and perspectives ...

 

[AndrewE]

Thank you for this excellent pic (and the others too!). IIUC it's going to take some effort (and time) to get anything past from the track beyond the Flannery vehicle. It looks like it may be that a wide(r) culvert is under construction (or at least consideration?) to take standing water on the golf course to the saltmarsh en route toward the estuary. Is anyone clear what 'the plan' is?- I hope so!

I was imagining that the railway embankment provided a (free) barrier between the golf course and the Bay, but as it impounded water on the landward side they got agreement to pump water up and under the railway line, perhaps on the pretext that it was in the railway's interest that water didn't move through the embankment and undermine it.
If that is the case, then said golf course aren't going to be very happy about big wide culverty boxes going in...

 

[Mcr Warrior]

You can get a spark off any metal. (Alloy is just a fancy name for a mixture of different metals)

Tricky to get a (friction) spark if the metal is copper and/or the alloy is brass or bronze or something similar.

 

[Wyrleybart]

This has been puzzling me. In the olden days the coast route was restricted to short frame (57'6" = 17.5metres) dmus - mainly class 108s: indeed the three class 129 parcels units were built specially for the line and, unlike the other parcel units, were short frame. I assumed the long frame 64'6" designs were barred because of greater throwover on bends (the same reason they were not allowed in the Hotel Curve at Kings Cross)

Scroll forward to now, and the 20 metre 150s (about the same length as a 64'6" long-frame 1st generatiuon DMU) are apparently barred, but it seems the even longer 23m 156s (and 153s when Northern had some) are allowed. What has changed?

And where do the (even longer) 195s fit (or not!) into this?

I am going to have to beg to differ on the Cravens parcels cars. It is my understanding these three were ordered for the LMR and allocated to separate sheds. https://www.railcar.co.uk/type/class-129/operations

 

[randyrippley]

I am going to have to beg to differ on the Cravens parcels cars. It is my understanding these three were ordered for the LMR and allocated to separate sheds. https://www.railcar.co.uk/type/class-129/operations

you haven't read the page you linked to:

They were given the yellow diamond coupling code as they were intended to work in West Cumberland with the yellow diamond Derby Lightweight sets. However, in the two and a half years between ordering and delivery plans changed and only one would make it to the Carlisle area.

 

[Trials]

Updated reopening on 21st April now

Updated reopening on 21st April now

 

[randyrippley]

Updated reopening on 21st April now

Is that "on" or "not before"?

 

[Winthorpe]

Is that "on" or "not before"?

'at least'

Buses replace trains between Barrow-in-Furness and Lancaster until at least the end of Sunday 21 April​

Incident: GrangeOverSands | National Rail

CLEARED: Train services have resumed today between Barrow-in-Furness and Lancaster. Find details of all current incidents on National Rail Enquiries.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

 

[Crossover]

I’m not going to say 100% that this didn’t happen (a 195 doing a full run to Carlisle) but I highly doubt it did.

Aside from the fact the 195 isn’t cleared there is the crew question. I’d be willing to bet at that time of night the service is Workington crewed north of Barrow and they won’t sign the traction.

Crews only usually change at Whitehaven and Workington on the coast so unless they got a Barrow crew to take it and taxi back from Whitehaven/Workington/Carlisle or pulled a swap at somewhere like Millom or Sellafield with a passing train then I suspect that, as mentioned elsewhere in the thread the 195 only partially completed the journey.

When I worked on the coast many years ago I remember working a 150 to Barrow on a Lancaster to Carlisle.

The train was subject to the same issues a 195 would be today. Clearance and crewing. Workington crews didn’t sign the 150.

As Barrow is permissive when we arrived everyone simply got off the 150, Walked up the platform to a 156 that was already waiting 6ft away (and already loaded with passengers from Barrow itself) and got on. The delay must’ve been minimal.

If that occurred on the day mentioned in this thread then real-time trains could give the impression of a 195 working the whole route in one trip.

As an aside I’ve worked a 150 in service as far as Whitehaven and we had one booked to Sellafield for a time but in those days we didn’t have camera phones so unfortunately I have no record.

I’m sure someone said this was swapped at Barrow? 195s aren’t cleared past Maryport, unless the sectional appendix has been updated.

actually, there was a second tweet which suggests the 195 didn’t make it to Carlisle:


Tweet from Guard Amos

It was set swapped at Barrow

Realtime Trains | 2C51 1913 Lancaster to Carlisle | 08/02/2024

Real-time train running information for 2C51 1913 departure from Lancaster to Carlisle on 08/02/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

195115 from Lancaster to Barrow and 156481 onwards to Carlisle

 

[Scooby]

I went past where the derailment was today with my daughter and she made the observation of " that's the first time I've been able to see the golf course in months. Every time I've come past its been underwater - it's like someone has pulled the plug out and all the water is draining away" (my words - or cleared the drainage, turned the pumps back on again)

 

[mikel543]

Just seen some photos on a local group of the two 195 units involved in the incident , currently sat in the sidings at Ulverston.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The full report in cumbriacrack goes further than the passage quoted. In particular, Tim says:
“To Network Rail I would like to ask you the following questions:

• How confident are you that there aren’t any more voids under the trackbed, along any other part of the stretch of track along the bay?
• Have you investigated any link between the reported incident item 109 report 6J89 which happened at 1.15am on Wednesday 20th when the ballast tamper had reported it had struck a water pipe, and this incident which happened just 53 hours later?
• Was there any intervention by Network Rail or any of its contractors to address the leak caused by this incident in the intervening period between the strike and the derailment?
• Would you also please clarify whether the water pipe struck by the tamper on Wednesday 20th was or was not one of the pipes across the track next to the sink hole which are used to pump floodwater from the golf club into the bay?"

All good questions, I'd say.

Someone on the inside has given him or the paper that information.

 

[strawberryline]

I went past where the derailment was today with my daughter and she made the observation of " that's the first time I've been able to see the golf course in months. Every time I've come past its been underwater - it's like someone has pulled the plug out and all the water is draining away" (my words - or cleared the drainage, turned the pumps back on again)

It's almost as if the golf club was pumping the water up and over the embankment but a leak in the pipe below the rails was allowing at least some of it to find it's way back to where it came from....... until the tamper finished the job?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

It's almost as if the golf club was pumping the water up and over the embankment but a leak in the pipe below the rails was allowing at least some of it to find it's way back to where it came from....... until the tamper finished the job?

As this is a temporary pumped system if there was a pipe failure or significant leak water would be ejected under pressure which would accelerate scour depending on material. Mind you its surprising it didn't develop as a rough ride beforehand although I believe its been suggested there was a pipe lower down as well which may have been causing a void to develop much lower down. RAIB report going to be interesting here.

 

[strawberryline]

...I believe its been suggested there was a pipe lower down as well ...

3rd pipe is visible here (circled in red)

Not my photo, I think it was @AndrewRL

 

[Rail Ranger]

BBC North West Tonight last night said the closure was now until the end of April.

 

[ScottGallagher]

BBC North West Tonight last night said the closure was now until the end of April.

Oh no, I'm travelling up from London on the 1st May! Is staying on the train beyond Lancaster to Carlisle and travelling back down the coast permitted because of this incident?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Oh no, I'm travelling up from London on the 1st May! Is staying on the train beyond Lancaster to Carlisle and travelling back down the coast permitted because of this incident?

Where on the Cumbrian Coast line are you headed for?

 

[a_c_skinner]

Oh no, I'm travelling up from London on the 1st May! Is staying on the train beyond Lancaster to Carlisle and travelling back down the coast permitted because of this incident?

From what the locals are saying the RRBs seem to be OK. By which I mean the local Facebook groups are not awash with complaints.

 

[AndrewRL]

It's a damper. The TCA is on the cab end bogie and this is the gangway end bogie as you can see the sand hopper. It also appears that brake calipers have either been ripped off or removed.

Is this part of a brake assembly? It's lying on the wall near the work site (tidied up by a contractor?) The blue paint can be seen on the stone wall at the spots where they had to partly demolish to get access during the re-railing operation. Currently they are drilling test samples, presumably to make sure their work has suitable foundations and will stand the test of time

 

[ScottGallagher]

Where on the Cumbrian Coast line are you headed for?

Millom