DFDS Harwich - Esbjerg ferry to be discontinued

[Abpj17]

I only ever travelled on it once, in 1969, and then only one way (back) so obviously my custom wasn't enough to keep it going. P.S. Who or what is Legoland and does it belong to the E.C.?

It's the sister state of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heligoland

 

[Tetchytyke]

I did also see recent interviews in which the main 4 Dover strait transporters (so that includes the tunnel) all admitted to having had a good summer; except one - DFDS, who pointed to over-capacity on the Dover strait.

There's been posturing because of the Competition Commission looking into Eurotunnel owning MyFerryLink. They've come out and said that Eurotunnel have to sell MyFerryLink, because there's too much capacity on the Dover Straits.

Both Eurotunnel and the French are very unimpressed by it, the French especially so as it's a French company set up after Sea France went bust and it'll be French people who lose their jobs if it closes. So that'll be interesting.

 

[Busaholic]

There's been posturing because of the Competition Commission looking into Eurotunnel owning MyFerryLink. They've come out and said that Eurotunnel have to sell MyFerryLink, because there's too much capacity on the Dover Straits.

Both Eurotunnel and the French are very unimpressed by it, the French especially so as it's a French company set up after Sea France went bust and it'll be French people who lose their jobs if it closes. So that'll be interesting.

So it could be very much in the French interest to keep DFDS sailing in the Dover Straits - possible 'sweeteners' from the port authorities, not, of course, that the French would ever do anything like that.

 

[Abpj17]

Curious; on a link between two countries, can one side's competition authority force their will?

 

[starrymarkb]

As nobody else has commented on this aspect, the irony of new environmental regulations making the route uneconomic so that people have to fly or make a hugely long car journey has not been lost on me. Is joined-up thinking now a criminal offence?

Ships are big polluters - Stand out on deck and if the winds in the wrong direction you'll get a coating of oil mist. Usually the bulk offsets the emissions some what but the EU wants that reduced.

Also there is less of a market for touring holidays now then there used to be with the current price of fuel both here and abroad making it an expensive option. A return for car and family on the Harwich to Esbjerg will set you back about £500! That's before driving or accommodation. You'd probably save a bit by doing the Dover Straits and driving up through (even with a Motel for a night stop). Trucks and Coaches tend to buy crossings in bulk with a big discount off buying a single trip so again it'll be worth their while to stick to Dover - Calais or the Tunnel exclusively.

 

[cactustwirly]

LD lines have also discontinued their Poole/Santander-Gijon routes, and DFDS are going to cancel the Portsmouth-LeHavre route on the 29th

 

[Busaholic]

Last sailing from Harwich to Esbjerg tomorrow, after 140 years. So a link to Europe gets cut a few days before, just down the road in Clacton, UKIP is likely to get its first MP elected. Only connect!

 

[306024]

Seems all may not be lost after all

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-29419581

http://www.reginaline.dk/index-uk.htm

Whether this gets off the ground we'll have to see. The ship, Regina, is the former Braemar, built in 1980 and no stranger to Harwich.

If you are prepared to rough it, from October 2015 prices start at £29 single for a seat, no cabin.

Also they don't propose to have Sunday arrivals and departures in the UK, so avoid potential bus replacements between Liverpool St and Parkeston.

 

[jopsuk]

Good luck to them, but I sadly don't see it lasting.

this would seem to be the ship.

Using an old, likely inefficient, ferry makes it even less likely the service has a long term future. And, I realise this is very much relative when it comes to ferries, but that's one hell of an ugly boat!

 

[Greenback]

There's a bit of an air of the Swansea to Cork about this, but we shall see.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Whether this gets off the ground we'll have to see. The ship, Regina, is the former Braemar, built in 1980 and no stranger to Harwich.

It's not run by Peter Young is it?

 

[CC 72100]

Regina line will never ever happen. Artic Troll's comment is a rather good analysis of the situation.

 

[jon0844]

Asking people to like their Facebook page/post to show demand is not convincing.

However, if there's a market for those who want/need to take a car, van (I have relatives that used the crossing frequently to take wood from Sweden to London for building custom furniture), caravan etc then perhaps someone can find a way to do it and make a profit. Even if it isn't this company.

Passengers will have long accepted that there was bugger all to do on the boat DFDS was running the last 10 years or so, and effectively helped seal its fate long before other changes finished it off for good.

These days that isn't such a big deal though. If you have power, Wi-Fi and a smartphone or tablet, I am sure most people could sit in their cabin for most or all of the journey and be happy. It's still easier than driving for all of that time, even if you do miss out on the autobahns!

 

[2BIL]

My father was PR for DFDS from the 1960s to 1980s so we travelled on the ferries regularly in those days, starting with the Kronprins Frederik, then the England and the Winston Churchill, and finally the Dana Regina and Dana Anglia. These were beautiful ships (for proof, check out Bruce Peter's books on them), with wonderful food and good service. No expense was spared, with furniture and fittings by top Danish designers and limited edition prints in the cabins.

Even in the 80s it was recognised that the crossing was quite expensive compared with a shorter Channel crossing and a drive up through Germany and Jutland, and it was obviously slow compared with air services, so the emphasis was on marketing the crossing as a mini-cruise to start and/or end your holiday. It worked, because on a ship like the Anglia there was plenty to do - restaurants, bars, shops, cinema, conference rooms, disco, lounge with live band and dancefloor, big children's play area etc. It really was like a hotel at sea.

Of course, the North Sea can be rough - it was a chance you had to take - but I've been on the Regina in a Force 11 and it was great fun; I certainly never felt scared. The Brits stoically insisted on dancing the night away in the disco, every so often landing in a heap in one corner laughing madly! I never went on the Sirena Seaways (not to be confused with the earlier Dana Sirena that DFDS used, along with the Dana Corona, in the Med), but I'm told her seagoing qualities were dreadful. And maybe people have become more nervous these days and expect a natural element (the sea) to be like a motorway.

I agree that DFDS may have used the emissions rules as an excuse to close the route, which was probably losing a lot of money, but the criticisms are valid of excessive regulation produced by the EU's office-bound bureaucrats who know nothing about the shipping industry. Ships are far cleaner than road or air transport per ton-mile.

The closure is all the more unfortunate because DFDS was a leader in environment-friendly initiatives (one of the first to stop dumping ship's waste into the North Sea) and Scandinavia is at the forefront of clean-ship technology such as LNG power. Low-sulphur fuel is expensive and in some areas is hard to source. It can also cause mechanical problems, especially when ships have to switch from standard fuel to low-sulphur and back again, causing more wear on components and, potentially, more pollution! Scrubbers (which clean emissions) are expensive to fit and potentially reduce efficiency, resulting in more fuel-burn and hence more pollution. Now we have a situation where EU anti-pollution rules at sea will result in massively increased pollution in Europe's towns and villages from extra road traffic. Still, I dare say it all makes sense in Brussels!

The 1875 date for the opening of the route is slightly misleading, as this was the date DFDS began using Esbjerg. The UK port at this time was Thames Haven and North Sea services only switched to Harwich in 1880. The first passenger sailing was by the 835gt paddle steamer Riberhuus (imagine being in a Force 11 in that!), which left Esbjerg on 2 June 1880 and arrived at Harwich on 4 June. Parkeston Quay formally opened in 1883, I believe.

 

[jon0844]

Thanks for that. I used to love going on that route as a child and was devastated when it was ruined with the new boat that had sod all to do on it. I'd even organised mini cruises when they were something like £95 a head (including cabin and possibly also some food).

Ironically, those expecting a sea crossing as smooth as a motorway probably now have motorways that mimic sea crossings..

 

[Busaholic]

My father was PR for DFDS from the 1960s to 1980s so we travelled on the ferries regularly in those days, starting with the Kronprins Frederik, then the England and the Winston Churchill, and finally the Dana Regina and Dana Anglia. These were beautiful ships (for proof, check out Bruce Peter's books on them), with wonderful food and good service. No expense was spared, with furniture and fittings by top Danish designers and limited edition prints in the cabins.

Even in the 80s it was recognised that the crossing was quite expensive compared with a shorter Channel crossing and a drive up through Germany and Jutland, and it was obviously slow compared with air services, so the emphasis was on marketing the crossing as a mini-cruise to start and/or end your holiday. It worked, because on a ship like the Anglia there was plenty to do - restaurants, bars, shops, cinema, conference rooms, disco, lounge with live band and dancefloor, big children's play area etc. It really was like a hotel at sea.

Of course, the North Sea can be rough - it was a chance you had to take - but I've been on the Regina in a Force 11 and it was great fun; I certainly never felt scared. The Brits stoically insisted on dancing the night away in the disco, every so often landing in a heap in one corner laughing madly! I never went on the Sirena Seaways (not to be confused with the earlier Dana Sirena that DFDS used, along with the Dana Corona, in the Med), but I'm told her seagoing qualities were dreadful. And maybe people have become more nervous these days and expect a natural element (the sea) to be like a motorway.

I agree that DFDS may have used the emissions rules as an excuse to close the route, which was probably losing a lot of money, but the criticisms are valid of excessive regulation produced by the EU's office-bound bureaucrats who know nothing about the shipping industry. Ships are far cleaner than road or air transport per ton-mile.

The closure is all the more unfortunate because DFDS was a leader in environment-friendly initiatives (one of the first to stop dumping ship's waste into the North Sea) and Scandinavia is at the forefront of clean-ship technology such as LNG power. Low-sulphur fuel is expensive and in some areas is hard to source. It can also cause mechanical problems, especially when ships have to switch from standard fuel to low-sulphur and back again, causing more wear on components and, potentially, more pollution! Scrubbers (which clean emissions) are expensive to fit and potentially reduce efficiency, resulting in more fuel-burn and hence more pollution. Now we have a situation where EU anti-pollution rules at sea will result in massively increased pollution in Europe's towns and villages from extra road traffic. Still, I dare say it all makes sense in Brussels!

The 1875 date for the opening of the route is slightly misleading, as this was the date DFDS began using Esbjerg. The UK port at this time was Thames Haven and North Sea services only switched to Harwich in 1880. The first passenger sailing was by the 835gt paddle steamer Riberhuus (imagine being in a Force 11 in that!), which left Esbjerg on 2 June 1880 and arrived at Harwich on 4 June. Parkeston Quay formally opened in 1883, I believe.

Thank you so much for that beautifully constructed epitaph. Just as people, especially on this forum, wonder why on earth we got rid of so many railway routes we will, I am sure, in future speculate as to how we could possibly have thought that ferries were an environmental threat as compared to cars and lorries on roads and planes in the sky. Othodox nostrums always need challenging and, in the end, are almost always found wanting, but by then too late.

 

[jon0844]

I like driving, but even I don't fancy spending two days to take a car to Sweden when we need to take, or bring back, lots of things - and have a car to get around on a holiday.

Ferries are still ideal for this. You can't compare directly with air, even though people do, as you're taking a vehicle with you (in most cases). It's road you're competing with, and with the cost of fuel and hotels, ferries can be competitive - as well as very relaxing and part of your holiday.

Driving, for the most part, isn't quite as enjoyable as it perhaps once was. The German autobahns are perhaps the exception, plus the train through the tunnel, but that's a tiny part of the overall route.

 

[Greenback]

Driving, for the most part, isn't quite as enjoyable as it perhaps once was. The German autobahns are perhaps the exception, plus the train through the tunnel, but that's a tiny part of the overall route.

I think that more and more people are coming to the same conclusion. But for most, the solution seems to be a cheap flight then hiring a car at their destination.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Was Esbjerg still a recognised Danish bacon processing settlement that sent much of its products to Britain ? Very many years ago, I visited the Manchester factory of the C & J Horowitz Bacon Company and remember seeing the wooden seals affixed to each carcass showing the place in Denmark where pre-processing had taken place and remember many such tags being imprinted with Esbjerg as the origin mark.