Diamond Bus (Warwickshire, West Midlands, Worcestershire)

[GusB]

Whether or not a particular seat is comfortable is subjective and off-topic for this thread. Please do not turn this into a seating discussion!

 

[Pat1105]

The NXWM Platinum buses are the worst vehicles ever to hit the streets of the West Midlands. They are like travelling about in a dungeon with seats designed as a medieval torture instrument.

Luckily Diamond Bus provides an superior alternative on Services 4H, 16 & 50 which the NXWM Platinums currently operate on.

The Platinums are the “worst vehicles ever to hit the streets of the West Midlands?” Really? What about some of the Travel Express vehicles, for example? So you think that a bus that knocks loudly when idling, has a threadbare and dirty interior and smells of petrol is better than a quiet, comfortable, virtually new E400MMC?

Diamond’s 4H & 16 vehicles are sheds. 13 year old eclipses and centros that rattle and with tired interiors, some with mechanical faults and you prefer these over a Platinum?

 

[richardjones21]

The Platinums are the “worst vehicles ever to hit the streets of the West Midlands?” Really? What about some of the Travel Express vehicles, for example? So you think that a bus that knocks loudly when idling, has a threadbare and dirty interior and smells of petrol is better than a quiet, comfortable, virtually new E400MMC?

Diamond’s 4H & 16 vehicles are sheds. 13 year old eclipses and centros that rattle and with tired interiors, some with mechanical faults and you prefer these over a Platinum?

Yes.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The Platinums are the “worst vehicles ever to hit the streets of the West Midlands?” Really? What about some of the Travel Express vehicles, for example? So you think that a bus that knocks loudly when idling, has a threadbare and dirty interior and smells of petrol is better than a quiet, comfortable, virtually new E400MMC?

Diamond’s 4H & 16 vehicles are sheds. 13 year old eclipses and centros that rattle and with tired interiors, some with mechanical faults and you prefer these over a Platinum?

Mr Jones has his view. It's a subjective view as the mods have pointed out. In the TF BPS, NXWM and First Worceseter did score more highly for passenger comfort than Diamond Worcs (can't see results for Diamond WM) so it would seem Mr Jones's views are more positive than the general public's own views, subjective as they are.


Taking Rotala as a whole, the investment is clear. However, as I've seen on Hallmark vehicles or the new Diamond NW deckers (entering service still with the First Leeds advertising inside), there is a challenge in not just investing but ensuring that standards are maintained. Otherwise the impact of new vehicles can easily be diminished.

 

[Pat1105]

Mr Jones has his view. It's a subjective view as the mods have pointed out. In the TF BPS, NXWM and First Worceseter did score more highly for passenger comfort than Diamond Worcs (can't see results for Diamond WM) so it would seem Mr Jones's views are more positive than the general public's own views, subjective as they are.


Taking Rotala as a whole, the investment is clear. However, as I've seen on Hallmark vehicles or the new Diamond NW deckers (entering service still with the First Leeds advertising inside), there is a challenge in not just investing but ensuring that standards are maintained. Otherwise the impact of new vehicles can easily be diminished.

I respect Richard’s views to the fullest, however unusual I may find them. I agree, that it may be a challenge to maintain standards for larger operations. I think Diamond have really forgotten some of their most important operations - the subsidised services. These services are a lifeline to many and are needed for social mobility. They’ve let standards slip on these services, although they do seem to be getting better. However, I still find no reasonable excuse as to why they continue to operate vehicles with previous operator liveries, operate vehicles that have faults and who have drivers not wearing the correct company uniform. These are the basics to providing a bus service, and I see no reason why Diamond can’t do this. If smaller operators can, they why can’t Diamond?

 

[richardjones21]

I respect Richard’s views to the fullest, however unusual I may find them. I agree, that it may be a challenge to maintain standards for larger operations. I think Diamond have really forgotten some of their most important operations - the subsidised services. These services are a lifeline to many and are needed for social mobility. They’ve let standards slip on these services, although they do seem to be getting better. However, I still find no reasonable excuse as to why they continue to operate vehicles with previous operator liveries, operate vehicles that have faults and who have drivers not wearing the correct company uniform. These are the basics to providing a bus service, and I see no reason why Diamond can’t do this. If smaller operators can, they why can’t Diamond?

The majority of subsidised services to TfWM now specify brand new Mellors on the contracts awarded.

TfWM supported the purchase of Streetlites for the 226.

002 is operated with new Streetlites.

During normal circumstances the 4H needs large capacity single deckers such as Centros for Halesowen College, Earl's High & Windsor students.

41 is operated by brand new Streetlites in partnership with West Midlands Bus.

31 32 42 43 are operated mainly with modern Streetlites in the West Midlands Bus Partnership

Kidderminster services barely break even and use the most suitable vehicles for commercial reasons. 292 is operated with new Solos.

Modern Streetlites have been introduced to reduce the fleet age profile on Redditch services.

I have never used Travel Express so cannot comment on thier activities.

 

[bussnapperwm]

The majority of subsidised services to TfWM now specify brand new Mellors on the contracts awarded.

TfWM supported the purchase of Streetlites for the 226.

002 is operated with new Streetlites.

During normal circumstances the 4H needs large capacity single deckers such as Centros for Halesowen College, Earl's High & Windsor students.

41 is operated by brand new Streetlites in partnership with West Midlands Bus.

31 32 42 43 are operated mainly with modern Streetlites in the West Midlands Bus Partnership

Kidderminster services barely break even and use the most suitable vehicles for commercial reasons. 292 is operated with new Solos.

Modern Streetlites have been introduced to reduce the fleet age profile on Redditch services.

I have never used Travel Express so cannot comment on thier activities.

226 - the streetlites were decker stock I believe. From what I've read, Diamond didn't intend for these to be used on the 226 until the last minute. I believe they were intended for DBNW when Rotala purchased them. The Ashwood Park corridor last had brand new buses for it when Travel Merry Hill brought the B6/Crusaders (and then it was still mk1 Metrobus operated until 2001!)

002/50 - yeah, these were what Diamond purchased for those routes to replace some of the Pointers in the fleet. The last time the 002 had brand new buses for it was when Ludlows ran it.

4H - if that was the case then why did they recently remove the branding for it from the 07 plates (apart from the fact the 4E had got the chop). And yet NX have been putting Tridents and E400s on recently on the 4 (yes, some of that is due to COVID-19, but also because it's a popular corridor.). The last batch of new buses for that corridor was when Diamond brought the MCVs (a big mistake apparently).

Several of the WMB Streetlites are ex Yourbus/ex Hallmark. One turned up for the first few days in service still with Hallmark displays programmed in! So these wasn't new specifically for the 31/32, 40 & 42/43.

The 292 only got the newish Solos due to redditch gaining some ex Dealer streetlites. Same with the new 20 plates that have been appearing on the 229/002/16.

Other than the Solos on the 292 (ex 226 branded) and the 125 Streetlites, Kiddy has been starved of investment since FMR purchased the E300s that were intended for Worcester but got diverted to Kiddy so they could run the 144.

 

[richardjones21]

226 - the streetlites were decker stock I believe. From what I've read, Diamond didn't intend for these to be used on the 226 until the last minute. I believe they were intended for DBNW when Rotala purchased them. The Ashwood Park corridor last had brand new buses for it when Travel Merry Hill brought the B6/Crusaders (and then it was still mk1 Metrobus operated until 2001!)

002/50 - yeah, these were what Diamond purchased for those routes to replace some of the Pointers in the fleet. The last time the 002 had brand new buses for it was when Ludlows ran it.

4H - if that was the case then why did they recently remove the branding for it from the 07 plates (apart from the fact the 4E had got the chop). And yet NX have been putting Tridents and E400s on recently on the 4 (yes, some of that is due to COVID-19, but also because it's a popular corridor.). The last batch of new buses for that corridor was when Diamond brought the MCVs (a big mistake apparently).

Several of the WMB Streetlites are ex Yourbus/ex Hallmark. One turned up for the first few days in service still with Hallmark displays programmed in! So these wasn't new specifically for the 31/32, 40 & 42/43.

The 292 only got the newish Solos due to redditch gaining some ex Dealer streetlites. Same with the new 20 plates that have been appearing on the 229/002/16.

Other than the Solos on the 292 (ex 226 branded) and the 125 Streetlites, Kiddy has been starved of investment since FMR purchased the E300s that were intended for Worcester but got diverted to Kiddy so they could run the 144.

The 226 is in partnership with TfWM.

002 has Streetlites bought for the route in partnership with Newnam University.

4H is revised and the branding removed as it was no longer applicable.

My post states the 31 32 42 43 use modern Streetlites there is no mention in it they are new.

There is no mention in my post the Streetlites at Redditch are new just modern.

The 292 uses Solos displaced from the end of the X30 contract and are 66 plate. Local services in Kidderminster & Stourbridge do not justify capital investment. The 125 uses Streetlites as it is commercially remunerative and is in partnership on certain journeys with Shropshire Council.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The 125 uses Streetlites as it is commercially remunerative and is in partnership on certain journeys with Shropshire Council.

When you say in partnership, is this just the standard tendering or de minimis support for certain journeys, or is more extensive?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Several of the WMB Streetlites are ex Yourbus/ex Hallmark. One turned up for the first few days in service still with Hallmark displays programmed in! So these wasn't new specifically for the 31/32, 40 & 42/43.

Ex Hallmark - lord knows what state they were in. Possibly one of the most depressing bus companies in the UK that, despite newish vehicles, is the epitome of poor service; some of the worst driving and customer care standards I have seen. Granted, serving the area is not easy as has been seen by the pull out of Abellio and reduction in Arriva, but the contrast between Hallmark and Falcon in the local area is stark.

And then there's Hotel Hoppa....

 

[richardjones21]

When you say in partnership, is this just the standard tendering or de minimis support for certain journeys, or is more extensive?

Much more than standard tendering. "West Midlands Bus" has been created by The Mayor of West Midlands Combined Authority to set minimum standards of service, the most eco friendly buses possible, coordinated timetables with other operators, support for the operator for socially necessary journeys with publicity generated by TfWM in consultations with the operators and other stakeholders together with agreed set fare and timetable changes

TfWM also contributes via Grant's from the DfT & LEP to the asset costs. Passengers in the West Midlands get the highest possible service from "West Midlands Bus "services. The basis of legislation used is The Bus Services Act 2017 and the use of Enhanced Partnerships.

As a TfWM Bus Champion I am very proud of what we have achieved with "West Midlands Bus" the standards and operations as such are far in excess of NXWM awfull Platinums.

 

[Pat1105]

When you say in partnership, is this just the standard tendering or de minimis support for certain journeys, or is more extensive?

They’re just standard tenders.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

They’re just standard tenders.

Ah right - partnership sounds like something more extensive such as funding for vehicles etc rather than the usual tendering arrangement.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Ah right - partnership sounds like something more extensive such as funding for vehicles etc rather than the usual tendering arrangement.

Or as was once a big thing, raised kerbs at bus stops and better shelters!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Or as was once a big thing, raised kerbs at bus stops and better shelters!

Indeed it was but in the shires, there's not much cash available.

 

[Pat1105]

Ah right - partnership sounds like something more extensive such as funding for vehicles etc rather than the usual tendering arrangement.

It does. Makes it sound like they’re working together, when actual fact, it’s just the council chucking some money at them and that’s it. Councils nowadays seem not to want to have anything to do with bus services. Shropshire Council in particular want to cut their public transport budget, which includes the reduction in many country services.

 

[richardjones21]

It does. Makes it sound like they’re working together, when actual fact, it’s just the council chucking some money at them and that’s it. Councils nowadays seem not to want to have anything to do with bus services. Shropshire Council in particular want to cut their public transport budget, which includes the reduction in many country services.

Sorry @Pat1105 you are wrong again aside from Shropshire County Council who only are involved with one Diamond Bus route when I use the term partnership within The West Midands County it is for the genuine partnership that forms the WMCA Bus Alliance and "West Midlands Bus" as outlined to @TheGrandWazoo in Post#101

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Sorry @Pat1105 you are wrong again aside from Shropshire County Council who only are involved with one Diamond Bus route when I use the term partnership within The West Midands County it is for the genuine partnership that forms the WMCA Bus Alliance and "West Midlands Bus" as outlined to @TheGrandWazoo in Post#101

To be fair, it was in the context of this comment...

The 125 uses Streetlites as it is commercially remunerative and is in partnership on certain journeys with Shropshire Council.

...and not in relation to WMCA.

 

[upasalmon]

Urban 90 seats are good for the posture and pluss point for many years on Diamond Bus on the many ex Pete's Travel Denis Darts which have recently left the fleet of Diamond.

Apologies if this point has been made elsewhere but Rotala should adopt the Diamond Bus brand for it's Preston operations so as to bring it into line. If they aren't already, coach operations should be branded as Hallmark.

 

[richardjones21]

To be fair, it was in the context of this comment...



...and not in relation to WMCA.

@TheGrandWazoo the 125 operates within The West Midlands County and falls within the partnership with TfWM & WMCA Bus Alliance which is why I made the comment in relation to the "West Midlands Bus"

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Apologies if this point has been made elsewhere but Rotala should adopt the Diamond Bus brand for it's Preston operations so as to bring it into line. If they aren't already, coach operations should be branded as Hallmark.

It's a fair point. Obviously, Preston Bus has a local history being established as Preston Corporation in 1904 and there was a certain amount of civic pride. After so long, and with that historic affinity, it might much to lose the local name but Diamond Preston on the new livery might be a fair move.

It would certainly help given the range of differing liveries on view and selection of fleetnames.

 

[cnjb8]

Apologies if this point has been made elsewhere but Rotala should adopt the Diamond Bus brand for it's Preston operations so as to bring it into line. If they aren't already, coach operations should be branded as Hallmark.

It's a fair point. Obviously, Preston Bus has a local history being established as Preston Corporation in 1904 and there was a certain amount of civic pride. After so long, and with that historic affinity, it might much to lose the local name but Diamond Preston on the new livery might be a fair move.

It would certainly help given the range of differing liveries on view and selection of fleetnames.

That's a good idea but Preston Bus has just got a new livery. Given the amount of Preston Bus vehicles at Bolton and Eccles, it would definitely improve fleet presentation.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

That's a good idea but Preston Bus has just got a new livery. Given the amount of Preston Bus vehicles at Bolton and Eccles, it would definitely improve fleet presentation.

Preston Bus has got a new livery but not certain how many have it. Certainly given how Rotala has grown and the propensity to transfer fleet around, a single livery would help.

 

[richardjones21]

That's a good idea but Preston Bus has just got a new livery. Given the amount of Preston Bus vehicles at Bolton and Eccles, it would definitely improve fleet presentation.

Mr Dunn very kindly recently on WM BUS FORUM answered this very question and his response was there are NO plans to extend the Diamond Bus brand to Preston.

I fully support this as Preston is a very different operating environment and Preston Bus are the incumbent operators to be fair against Stagecoach.

 

[Pat1105]

To be fair, it was in the context of this comment...



...and not in relation to WMCA.

Yes, I was talking in relation to the 125 and the subsidy from Shropshire Council. Nothing to do with West Midlands Bus or the Combined Authority. Please check before you jump the gun and accuse me of being wrong @richardjones21

 

[richardjones21]

Yes, I was talking in relation to the 125 and the subsidy from Shropshire Council. Nothing to do with West Midlands Bus or the Combined Authority. Please check before you jump the gun and accuse me of being wrong @richardjones21

I wasn't jumping the gun you are wrong I am afraid with regard to the WMCA.
Shropshire Council is an non constitute member of The West Midlands Combined Authority.

Alex Philips is the Cabinet Member of Shropshire Council who attends The West Midlands Combined Authority on matters regarding West Midlands Bus.

 

[Stan Drews]

I wasn't jumping the gun you are wrong I am afraid with regard to the WMCA.
Shropshire Council is an non constitute member of The West Midlands Combined Authority.

Alex Philips is the Cabinet Member of Shropshire Council who attends The West Midlands Combined Authority on matters regarding West Midlands Bus.

I’m getting a little confused here, so perhaps you could answer a couple of simple questions to help a non-local.
1) Are some (or even all) of the journeys on the 125 subsidised?
2) If so, who was the tendering authority?

 

[richardjones21]

I’m getting a little confused here, so perhaps you could answer a couple of simple questions to help a non-local.
1) Are some (or even all) of the journeys on the 125 subsidised?
2) If so, who was the tendering authority?

The service crosses three tendering authorities:
1. WMCA
2. Worcestershire County Council
3. Shropshire County Council.

Certain journeys within Shropshire & Worcestershire are supported by Shropshire Council with minority funding from Worcestershire County Council. The section of route in The West Midlands County is fully commercial and part of The West Midlands Bus Alliance

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I’m getting a little confused here, so perhaps you could answer a couple of simple questions to help a non-local.
1) Are some (or even all) of the journeys on the 125 subsidised?
2) If so, who was the tendering authority?

I’m equally confused.

Are WMCA involved in the 125? Does it enter the West Midlands?

 

[richardjones21]

I’m equally confused.

Are WMCA involved in the 125? Does it enter the West Midlands?

Yes the Service 125 is Stourbridge - Kidderminster- Bewdley - Highley - Bridgenorth.

Between Stourbridge (WMCA) & Kidderminster it is fully commercial. Occasional journeys between Highley & Kidderminster are supported by Worcestershire County Council whilst most journeys are supported by Shropshire Council.

As the Shropshire Council & Worcestershire County Council are both non constitution members of The West Midands Combined Aithority the concession fares within the WMCA are administered by TfWM the route is part of The West Midands Bus Alliance although TfWM do not financially support the route direct.