Did a K3 2-6-0 really make it through to West Wales in the early 1960's?

[D6130]

maybe even Canklow (for those who know where that is)

IIRC, it was the steam predecessor of Tinsley.

 

[Bevan Price]

maybe even Canklow (for those who know where that is)

IIRC, it was the steam predecessor of Tinsley.

It was the Midland Railway /LMSR shed for Rotherham, located on the "old" line about a mile or so south of Masborough station.

Tinsley effectively replaced Darnall (GCR/LNER) shed, although steam was very much on its last legs when Tinsley opened.

 

[Magdalia]

It was the Midland Railway /LMSR shed for Rotherham, located on the "old" line about a mile or so south of Masborough station.

Tinsley effectively replaced Darnall (GCR/LNER) shed, although steam was very much on its last legs when Tinsley opened.

Tinsley had many predecessors. The history of locosheds in the Sheffield area is a complicated one, going back to the "penetrating lines" reorganisation of 1958. Prior to that the ex Midland lines in the Sheffield area were still in the LMR. In addition to Canklow, the Midland side of the Sheffield area also had Millhouses and Grimesthorpe. The Great Central side was dominated by Darnall, but also had Mexborough, Barnsley and Langwith Jn. Both sides had sheds at Staveley.

When the diesels first arrived in 1961 they were allocated to Darnall, but operationally about half of them actually worked off Grimesthorpe. As part of the Sheffield area modernisation the only long term survivor was the LMS shed at Staveley, usually known as Barrow Hill. The others were replaced by Tinsley, Wath and Shirebrook.

Canklow actually lasted until after Tinsley opened, and was the last bastion of long distance steam operation from the Sheffield area

 

[Harvester]

05/04/61 was in the middle of the week after Easter. Might that be significant?

Maybe a holiday relief, or Easter Monday excursion, with 61894 failing to return as booked? What has not been mentioned is that Woodford Halse had ten K3s on its allocation in April 1961 mainly for GC workings, but some of these locos must have strayed unrecorded onto the WR too!

 

[Taunton]

Maybe a holiday relief, or Easter Monday excursion, with 61894 failing to return as booked? What has not been mentioned is that Woodford Halse had ten K3s on its allocation in April 1961 mainly for GC workings, but some of these locos must have strayed unrecorded onto the WR too!

There are accounts of various Eastern types working past Banbury to Oxford, and one or two reported through to Swindon. Southern locos also worked via the Reading West curve to Oxford, and some through trains changed one to the other there, avoiding Western locos entirely, and also preventing the need to deal with the issue of different vacuum strength on Western locos handling relief trains formed of older LNER/SR stock, which could be a nuisance.

 

[6Gman]

One possibility was that the loco was on a Western shed, such as Banbury or Swindon, having previously worked in on a train from the the Eastern, and the shedmaster found that he had nothing available for a duty (or nothing he wanted to lose). So he grabs the K3 and sends that out.

Absolutely the likeliest story.

Incoming train to Woodford/Banbury brings in a K3 as booked. Normal return working cancelled (no traffic). Loco goes on shed, traincrew sent home passenger.

Woodford/Banbury to Margam special train of bogie bolsters following morning. Why use one of your own locos (no return working booked so why risk losing it for a fortnight?) when somebody else's K3 is sitting there?

Win, win for the local shedmaster. Meanwhile a shedmaster in Notts or Lincs is ringing round trying to find his missing loco!

Maybe a holiday relief, or Easter Monday excursion, with 61894 failing to return as booked? What has not been mentioned is that Woodford Halse had ten K3s on its allocation in April 1961 mainly for GC workings, but some of these locos must have strayed unrecorded onto the WR too!

Now that I didn't know.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Maybe a holiday relief, or Easter Monday excursion, with 61894 failing to return as booked? What has not been mentioned is that Woodford Halse had ten K3s on its allocation in April 1961 mainly for GC workings, but some of these locos must have strayed unrecorded onto the WR too!

Looking at the What Happened to Steam (I know!) Shed Allocations booklet they were there for only a short period to a maximum of 17; the first went there in 1/57 and the last went (for scrap) in 11/62. I have 61843 and 61910 underlined in my old ABC, I must have seen them on my first visit to the shed in Summer 1962 but have absolutely no recollection!

 

[Harvester]

Looking at the What Happened to Steam (I know!) Shed Allocations booklet they were there for only a short period to a maximum of 17; the first went there in 1/57 and the last went (for scrap) in 11/62. I have 61843 and 61910 underlined in my old ABC, I must have seen them on my first visit to the shed in Summer 1962 but have absolutely no recollection!

The following K3s were allocated to Woodford Halse in April 1961.

61804, 61809, 61824, 61832, 61841, 61842, 61843, 61851, 61865, 61910 and 61913.

Source: BR Steam Locomotives (complete allocations history) 1948-1968

 

[Taunton]

Incoming train to Woodford/Banbury brings in a K3 as booked. Normal return working cancelled (no traffic). Loco goes on shed, traincrew sent home passenger.

Now any WR shed foreman worth their salt (the GWR expression was foreman, not shedmaster, though they still wore a suit and trilby hat to work, not overalls) would send such an interloping loco back light, WITH its crew, forthwith .

The Woodford to Banbury line was one of the inefficiencies of the era, coal trains (household, not loco) from Nottinghamshire and Yorkshire would be assembled at Annesley, come down to Woodford at speed, the famous "Windcutters", where they would go into the yard, eventually a fresh loco for the hop to Banbury (12 miles?), into the yard again, Western loco eventually rostered, and onward.

I believe in GWR days that LNER locos at Banbury were charged even for a tankful of water, so always set off from Woodford with enough coal and everything for the round trip.

 

[Magdalia]

There are accounts of various Eastern types working past Banbury to Oxford, and one or two reported through to Swindon.

There was a Sunday Sheffield Victoria-Swindon and return which was usually a B1 all the way there and back.

Maybe a holiday relief, or Easter Monday excursion, with 61894 failing to return as booked? What has not been mentioned is that Woodford Halse had ten K3s on its allocation in April 1961 mainly for GC workings, but some of these locos must have strayed unrecorded onto the WR too!

Easter 1961 was part of one of the winters when a York-Banbury and return DMU replaced the York-Bournemouth and vice versa loco hauled trains.

But over Easter 1961 the through loco hauled trains were booked to run through to/from Bournemouth on 29/03, 30/03, 01/04 and 03-05/04.

It is unlikely that we will ever find out what arrangements were made for locos to work those. Could 61894 have worked the York-Bournemouth to Banbury on one of those dates?

The overnight York-Swindon trains are also possibilities.

 

[6Gman]

Now any WR shed foreman worth their salt (the GWR expression was foreman, not shedmaster, though they still wore a suit and trilby hat to work, not overalls) would send such an interloping loco back light, WITH its crew, forthwith .

Ah, but Woodford wasn't GW ...

 

[Killingworth]

There are at least 2 pictures of K3s supposedly at Newport available on eBay, see; https://picclick.co.uk/Photo-Lner-Class-K3-Loco-No-1135-362614934699.html#&gid=1&pid=1

 

[Taunton]

Ah, but Woodford wasn't GW ...

No indeed. But Banbury was.

There are at least 2 pictures of K3s supposedly at Newport available on eBay

Possibly, looking at some background features, the Newport shed on Teesside, later overtaken by the new Thornaby.

 

[Killingworth]

No indeed. But Banbury was.


Possibly, looking at some background features, the Newport shed on Teesside, later overtaken by the new Thornaby.

51B Newport more likely, had forgotten that.

 

[robert thomas]

Absolutely the likeliest story.

Incoming train to Woodford/Banbury brings in a K3 as booked. Normal return working cancelled (no traffic). Loco goes on shed, traincrew sent home passenger.

Woodford/Banbury to Margam special train of bogie bolsters following morning. Why use one of your own locos (no return working booked so why risk losing it for a fortnight?) when somebody else's K3 is sitting there?

Win, win for the local shedmaster. Meanwhile a shedmaster in Notts or Lincs is ringing round trying to find his missing loco!


Now that I didn't know.

The K3 went to Llanelly. See my post 10 above.

 

[6Gman]

The K3 went to Llanelly. See my post 10 above.

According to post 10 it was also believed to have gone via the Central Wales Line which seems unlikely given the route availability of the K3s (only the Pacifics, the V2s and the W1 had a more restrictive route availability).

 

[chorleyjeff]

Nothing unusual in this approach. The absolute past master of that was the shedmaster at Bath Green Park in the 1950s-60s summers. From about Thursday evening onwards he would begin salting away anything useful that came in, generally on freights from Gloucester/Birmingham etc, for the summer Saturday chaos. Merging two northbound freights into one, leaving empty wagons in the yard, that sort of thing. Black 5s preferred, but anything else worthwhile would do. So locos from Derby, maybe even Canklow (for those who know where that is) would be on the back line by the river, slightly hidden from view by the shed building from any passing management in a train, to be released early on Saturday for a round trip to Bournemouth and back.

One one occasion an incoming Black 5 was hidden away in this fashion, and the Gloucester crew were told some excuse and given, of all things, a 3F Jinty tank for the return working. Half a day later another Gloucester freight working came in - and the Jinty had very promptly been sent back unannounced!

Same applied during Lancashire Wakes weeks when lots of excursions departed on Friday night/ Saturday.