Did Class 87s ever operate outside the WCML?

[USRailFan]

86s operated on the GEML, and hauled mail trains (and possibly freight?) on the ECML.
90s took over for 86s on the GEML, and also hauled mail trains (and possibly freight?) + occasionally stepped in for 91s on the ECML.
And both 86s and 90s hauled freight on the North London line.
But did 87s ever in regular service operate outside the WCML (other than drags over S&C/MML)?

 

[hexagon789]

86s operated on the GEML, and hauled mail trains (and possibly freight?) on the ECML.
90s took over for 86s on the GEML, and also hauled mail trains (and possibly freight?) + occasionally stepped in for 91s on the ECML.
And both 86s and 90s hauled freight on the North London line.
But did 87s ever in regular service operate outside the WCML (other than drags over S&C/MML)?

Does the Ayrshire Coast Line count? The Up Royal Scot commenced from Ayr for a period in the 1980s, working down to Ayr as a morning commuter run.

 

[CW2]

There were a couple of weekends when Euston was closed (partially or fully). Liverpool services were diverted from Nuneaton via Bedford to St Pancras. They were dragged by 47s to Bedford, then electric hauled from there. 87s worked Bedford - St Pancras and return on those services, alongside 86s and 90s.

(Edit - I see the OP said "other than drags over S&C/MML." Not sure if this was intended to be excluded as they worked under their own power).

 

[Darandio]

And of course one famously found it's way to Llandudno Junction.....

 

[D6130]

Not a regular service train - so strictly speaking OT - but on at least two occasions during the 1980s, the Royal Train, or at least four carriages of it, arrived at Helensburgh Central behind a class 87, when Princess Anne was visiting the Clyde Submarine Base at Faslane. On the first occasion the honour befell 87 028 and I was present on the platform to photograph its arrival. Loco and train had been dragged by 37 027 from Mossend to Craigendoran during the night and then berthed in Craigendoran Loop for HRH to have a peaceful breakfast before starting her day's work glad-handing the navy top brass and their wives and children. The 37 then worked the empty stock back to Mossend with the 87 on the rear which, I assume, then worked back to Wolverton, while HRH departed by helicopter. I'm not sure how things worked on the second occasion, as I was living and working 'darn sarf' by then. @Cheshire Scot may remember the details.

 

[londontransit]

I remember AC electrics being dragged to Chester but may not have any photos. However...

Class 87 Country of Cheshire visited Chester for the naming ceremony. Flickr.

Class 87 City of Manchester (& maybe some other 87s) too visited Chester on drags to save time shunting at Crewe. Flickr.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

@Cheshire Scot may remember the details.

I do recall being aware of one instance which must have been the second one as I think the 87 hauled it via the Argyle line to Helensburgh.

Does that make Helensburgh Central the furthest west an 87 ever worked, or did one perhaps ever make it to Gourock or Wemyss Bay, or Largs - I'm thinking maybe Charter trains, or even other Royal visits.

 

[Mag_seven]

(other than drags over S&C/MML)?

87s were not dragged over the S&C - when S&C diversions were in place the electric loco was taken off / put on at Carlisle or Preston as appropriate.

Does the Ayrshire Coast Line count? The Up Royal Scot commenced from Ayr for a period in the 1980s, working down to Ayr as a morning commuter run.

There was a corresponding evening run from Glasgow to Ayr for a time as well.

And of course one famously found it's way to Llandudno Junction.....

That was a 90....

 

[delt1c]

Occasionally with Virgin they visited Edinburgh but it was rare

 

[nw1]

A bit of a variation on the original question, were there ever any booked turns of 87s on "Cross Country" WCML services, i.e. those originating from the south or southwest, or New Street?

I do distinctly remember an 87 hauling the 1730 Stafford to Manchester on 18/8/84 (an ex-Brighton Cross Country service) and a southbound Poole service on a Sunday in the same era, but I'm not sure if these were booked turns.

I do know they couldn't haul Mk-Is, but by 1984 most of these services were Mk-II.

 

[Darandio]

That was a 90....

Not on this day it wasn't......

Its on the tail

HST unavailability caused 87007 and a MK2 set to be used on the morning Euston-Holyhead service. On arrival at Crewe for the loco change, 47830 was attached for the rest of the journey, It was the Llandudno Jn signalman who noticed that the CL 87 was still attached. Electric locos are banned...

flic.kr

 

[CW2]

For a while in 2015 87002 was on hire to Caledonian Sleepers. Originally it was only supposed to work the ECS moves Wembley - Euston and return, but it soon got pressed into mainline service, running Euston - Edinburgh overnight, and back the next night, with associated ECS moves to / from Polmadie. On at least one occasion the appearance of 87002 coincided with a weekend engineering block north of Preston, so 87002 worked Wembley - Kings Cross Incline - ECML to Edinburgh, so a class 87 for the entire length of the ECML London - Edinburgh, barring the short section out of Kings Cross station.

 

[43096]

Occasionally with Virgin they visited Edinburgh but it was rare

They were regulars on the Carstairs-Edinburgh stretch on the sleepers in InterCity days; indeed that continued into Virgin days until the sleeper haulage contract went to EWS.

Don't forget 87101, which as an RfD machine worked to Ipswich via the North London Line on Freightliner services and there's also photos in existence of it at York having worked in on a charter. It also spent time as a test/training loco working out of Kings Cross in the 1980s.

 

[Mag_seven]

A bit of a variation on the original question, were there ever any booked turns of 87s on "Cross Country" WCML services, i.e. those originating from the south or southwest, or New Street?

I do distinctly remember an 87 hauling the 1730 Stafford to Manchester on 18/8/84 (an ex-Brighton Cross Country service) and a southbound Poole service on a Sunday in the same era, but I'm not sure if these were booked turns.

I do know they couldn't haul Mk-Is, but by 1984 most of these services were Mk-II.

Yes all the time in "BR Inter-City Cross-Country" days (rather than the "Cross Country franchise" days).

Not on this day it wasn't......

Its on the tail

HST unavailability caused 87007 and a MK2 set to be used on the morning Euston-Holyhead service. On arrival at Crewe for the loco change, 47830 was attached for the rest of the journey, It was the Llandudno Jn signalman who noticed that the CL 87 was still attached. Electric locos are banned...

flic.kr

This was more famous though

Engine taken on wrong track

DOZY staff forgot to detach an electric locomotive from a train bound for North Wales.

www.dailypost.co.uk

DOZY staff forgot to detach an electric locomotive from a train bound for North Wales.

The 5.02am Virgin train from Birmingham to Holyhead left Crewe hauled by a diesel locomotive.

But the electric engine, a Class 90 owned by freight company EWS, was still attached to the train.

An insider said the engine could have damaged platform edges and bridges during its 60-mile journey from Crewe.

He said: "Someone appears to have realised that Class 90s have never been checked for structure gauge on the North Wales Coast, so the 90 was detached at Llandudno Junction and left in a siding near the signal box."

The engine was hauled back to Crewe later on.

 

[hexagon789]

There was a corresponding evening run from Glasgow to Ayr for a time as well.

Shame Virgin never ran 390s to Ayr...

 

[Richard Scott]

Don't forget 87101, which as an RfD machine worked to Ipswich via the North London Line on Freightliner services and there's also photos in existence of it at York having worked in on a charter. It also spent time as a test/training loco working out of Kings Cross in the 1980s.

It also appeared at Gloucester on an open day in early 1990s, obviously not under its own power!!!!

 

[Inversnecky]

Not on this day it wasn't......

Its on the tail

HST unavailability caused 87007 and a MK2 set to be used on the morning Euston-Holyhead service. On arrival at Crewe for the loco change, 47830 was attached for the rest of the journey, It was the Llandudno Jn signalman who noticed that the CL 87 was still attached. Electric locos are banned...

flic.kr

Why are electric locos banned there (aside from being useless without OLE)?

 

[Darandio]

Why are electric locos banned there (aside from being useless without OLE)?

Clearance issues between Llandudno Jcn and Holyhead I believe, particularly with bridge clearances due to the overhead equipment.

 

[Inversnecky]

Clearance issues between Llandudno Jcn and Holyhead I believe, particularly with bridge clearances due to the overhead equipment.

At the risk of veering onto another topic, I realise the rooftop was cut lower on the electrics so equipment was less obtrusive, but presumably not enough for the route?

 

[Darandio]

At the risk of veering onto another topic, I realise the rooftop was cut lower on the electrics so equipment was less obtrusive, but presumably no enough for the route?

Even retracted some of the equipment is still slightly higher than the coaching stock behind it, I assume there are some pretty tight clearances down there!

 

[D6130]

I do know they couldn't haul Mk-Is, but by 1984 most of these services were Mk-II.

Not quite correct. The 87's couldn't work vacuum-braked stock....but they could work air-braked Mark 1 stock. I well remember travelling back overnight from Blackpool in the mid-1970s on an illuminations ADEX returning to Portsmouth Harbour, with a ten coach rake of Southern Region air-braked Mark 1 stock. A 47/4 took us to Preston, where it was exchanged for an 87, which took us at great speed back to Mitre Bridge Junction (Willesden) via Northampton. The last stage of the journey was entrusted to a 33 and was undertaken at a much more sedate pace.

 

[Western Sunset]

87101 made it to Derby. But, of course, most stuff turned-up at the RTC at one time or another.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Even retracted some of the equipment is still slightly higher than the coaching stock behind it, I assume there are some pretty tight clearances down there!

A 390 being 57-hauled from Crewe to Holyhead had some pantograph damage inflicted at Chester station on one occasion.
Changes were made to improve the clearance (track had already been lowered under bridges between Crewe and Chester).
That must have been 2005-ish.

87 002 reached Paddington (from Didcot) on a charter, after the GW route was wired in 2018.
And you can still (could?) see a few of them working in Bulgaria, quite a long way from the WCML.

 

[randyrippley]

Weren't they used for a while on the Harwich boat trains during that short period when they ran WCML-NLL-GE?

87s were not dragged over the S&C - when S&C diversions were in place the electric loco was taken off / put on at Carlisle or Preston as appropriate.

They certainly were hauled over the S&C once the DVTs had been introduced and the sets went fixed formation

 

[CW2]

Weren't they used for a while on the Harwich boat trains during that short period when they ran WCML-NLL-GE?


They certainly were hauled over the S&C once the DVTs had been introduced and the sets went fixed formation

No, the through trains to Harwich were always 86/2, as that was the only electric traction the Stratford drivers signed at the time. (I did attempt to get an 86/1 on the train out of Glasgow once, but it got swapped for an 86/2).

I don't recall electric locos (of any class) ever being dragged over the S&C. They were usually subject to a loco change at Preston and Carlisle. Happy to be proved wrong on this though, as my memory is a bit dim!

 

[Mag_seven]

They certainly were hauled over the S&C once the DVTs had been introduced and the sets went fixed formation

Certainly whenever I travelled on S&C diversions during DVT days the electric loco would always come off. A quick search of the internet reveals no photographic evidence of any AC locos being dragged over the S&C on a diversion. As per @CW2 above happy to stand corrected but I would like to see some evidence.

 

[D6130]

Certainly whenever I travelled on S&C diversions during DVT days the electric loco would always come off. A quick search of the internet reveals no photographic evidence of any AC locos being dragged over the S&C on a diversion. As per @CW2 above happy to stand corrected but I would like to see some evidence.

I concur....and I was travelling on WCML diversions over the S&C long before the DVTs put in an appearance.

 

[randyrippley]

I don't recall electric locos (of any class) ever being dragged over the S&C. They were usually subject to a loco change at Preston and Carlisle. Happy to be proved wrong on this though, as my memory is a bit dim!

That was before the DVTs
Once they were introduced the locos were dragged
Regular weekend occurrence during the pre-Pendolino upgrade works
Seen it several times

 

[Helvellyn]

When used on freight they would pop up at places on the WCML that they obviously wouldn't once fully dedicated to InterCity West Coast (from around 1990) including Hardendale Quarry (Shap) for limestone traffic to/from Ravenscraig. I assume they would have made it to Trafford Freightliner terminal as well, so that would have meant 87s at Oxford Road and Deansgate.

 

[Trackman]

That was a 90....

I always thought it was an 86, unless it was a separate incident. It's ringing bells now it was a 90 though! I think a signalman spotted it.