Did my friend see a 3 car Voyager?

ValleyLines142

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At about 2.50pm this afternoon my friend was at Tamworth spotting and was adamant a 3 car Voyager went past. Have XC or AWC temporarily deformed one of their sets to a 3 car? I'm not convinced this is true and believe he may have seen 220005 on 1E44 to Newcastle and just glanced quick, because he does get easily confused, but he is very certain!

Can anyone shed any light on this?
 
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gimmea50anyday

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I don't think they can run as a 3 car unit as braking force will not be sufficient. Plus there will be parts of the train that make it got that may well be missing if a car is taken out such as air compressors. By the time TMS reprogramming is done plus the requirement to restrict it to certain speed limited diagrams or in multiple only for example and it is far easier to simply take the whole unit out of traffic rather than reform it.
 

bb21

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If 1E44 then no, still 4 coaches.
1623550396940.png
 

the sniper

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Anyone else remember the 13 car Pendolino sighting reported/argued here, many years ago...? Must be something in the air up the Trent Valley!
 

158747

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I don't think they can run as a 3 car unit as braking force will not be sufficient.
As it is a multiple unit brake force would not be a problem as each vehicle would have the same braking performance, brake force would only be an issue if it were a loco hauled train with fewer than the usual number of vehicles.
 

hexagon789

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As it is a multiple unit brake force would not be a problem as each vehicle would have the same braking performance, brake force would only be an issue if it were a loco hauled train with fewer than the usual number of vehicles.
And even that depends exactly on the nature of the braking system(s) the loco-hauled train is equipped with.
 

D6975

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Going in the other direction, I have seen a 6 car Voyager, It was a regular occurance when the extra coaches were being delivered to make the class 221 sets delivered as 4 cars up to 5 cars.
 

trainmania100

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Could of just been the speed that made it look like 3. I've mistaken seeing a 9 car southern 313 before on London road vIaduct...it was dark
 

a340egkk

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As it is a multiple unit brake force would not be a problem as each vehicle would have the same braking performance, brake force would only be an issue if it were a loco hauled train with fewer than the usual number of vehicles.
That isn't necessarily correct, a (if lighter) trailer vehicle being removed from a unit may well impact upon braking performance significantly, as the brake force per ton on the train as a whole will be decreased. Of course it depends on the unit and a multitude of other factors.
 

Jozhua

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A three car voyager would truly be cursed lol.

They're already 50% the length they should be lol
 

Wyrleybart

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I don't think they can run as a 3 car unit as braking force will not be sufficient. Plus there will be parts of the train that make it got that may well be missing if a car is taken out such as air compressors. By the time TMS reprogramming is done plus the requirement to restrict it to certain speed limited diagrams or in multiple only for example and it is far easier to simply take the whole unit out of traffic rather than reform it.

Agree. The non driving cars have compressors and other stuff not fitted to the end vehicles. It would simply not be acceptable to send a voyager out into the big wide world with just once compressor car, even if the TMS system could cope with it.

Trip to Specsavers required, or better distinction between 170 and 220 maybe ?
 

sw1ller

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Agree. The non driving cars have compressors and other stuff not fitted to the end vehicles. It would simply not be acceptable to send a voyager out into the big wide world with just once compressor car, even if the TMS system could cope with it.

Trip to Specsavers required, or better distinction between 170 and 220 maybe ?
Why not? 3 car 175’s only have the one compressor and they cope just fine.
 

JonathanH

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On the subject of 3-car Voyagers, 221143 appears to be formed as such at Polmadie with the other two coaches at Central Rivers but I think it would be safe to say that it isn't going to be in service in that formation.
 

gimmea50anyday

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Why not? 3 car 175’s only have the one compressor and they cope just fine.
185s also only have one compressor on the 51 car, however while one can do the job I have had plenty of experiences where two compressors should have been available. there is unused space on the 54 car in the same location as where the compressor is fitted on the 51 car so being a modular design there may have been a second one fitted if the 185s were 4 cars or more
 

sw1ller

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185s also only have one compressor on the 51 car, however while one can do the job I have had plenty of experiences where two compressors should have been available. there is unused space on the 54 car in the same location as where the compressor is fitted on the 51 car so being a modular design there may have been a second one fitted if the 185s were 4 cars or more
To be fair, I hate cold starting a 3 car 175. You never know if it’ll take 15 minutes or 45! Those compressors are getting on a bit now. Should have 1 per car.
 

D365

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To be fair, I hate cold starting a 3 car 175. You never know if it’ll take 15 minutes or 45! Those compressors are getting on a bit now. Should have 1 per car.
Do you know if the compressor unit is still available to buy new?
 

sw1ller

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Do you know if the compressor unit is still available to buy new?
I don’t sorry. I’m assuming they are but I’d be surprised if TfW would be willing to shell out for a new one if they don’t have to. The time it takes to build up air won’t be wholly down to how good the compressor is anyway. There could be minor air leaks all over the unit which will have an affect for example. Various factors to take into account.
I just wanted to know why it wouldn’t be acceptable to send a voyager out with only 1 working compressor. I know they have a lot more going on in them over a 175 (catering, tilt etc) so was wondering if that was a throw away comment or there’s an actual reason for it.
 

millemille

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That isn't necessarily correct, a (if lighter) trailer vehicle being removed from a unit may well impact upon braking performance significantly, as the brake force per ton on the train as a whole will be decreased. Of course it depends on the unit and a multitude of other factors.
Absolutely right. Also the fact that Voyagers release the brakes on the leading axle of the leading vehicle when prolonged WSP activity occurs - to get a true speed over ground reading - meaning that they need as many braked axles as possible behind the released axle to achieve the needed stopping performance.
 

Nogoohwell

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I remember about 5 years back that there was a 2 car Virgin Voyager at a platform at Crewe. Was in service though.
 

Bletchleyite

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I remember about 5 years back that there was a 2 car Virgin Voyager at a platform at Crewe. Was in service though.

*not, presumably. There was a 2-car formation used for training made up of the spare end vehicles from the re-formation into 5-car units, but it was lacking some equipment so couldn't actually move like that other than behind a locomotive.

I half recall XC ended up leasing the vehicles to reform theirs the other way (i.e. create 3 x 4 from 2 x 5).
 

Nogoohwell

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*not, presumably. There was a 2-car formation used for training made up of the spare end vehicles from the re-formation into 5-car units, but it was lacking some equipment so couldn't actually move like that other than behind a locomotive.

I half recall XC ended up leasing the vehicles to reform theirs the other way (i.e. create 3 x 4 from 2 x 5).
Thanks @Bletchleyite Yup missed out the all important word there!
 

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