Did you like the pacers? (The Class 140, 141, 142, 143, and the 144.)

[coradiafan2000]

Hated them when they were running, but now they're gone I find myself missing them. I miss the suspense of waiting at Merthyr station and wondering whether I'd get lucky with a 150 or if I'd have to endure a Pacer for the journey to Cardiff. In an odd way I think having them made me appreciate the 150s more.

One thing I do miss was how lively they were, especially at 60mph plus. They certainly had a good deal of character, perhaps more than the 150s in that regard.

 

[Dr_Paul]

I won't be voting as I never had the pleasure/pain of travelling in one. Did any actually venture into the London area?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Did any actually venture into the London area?

Very much doubt it, as I'm sure they would have been binned off a lot sooner if they ever had.

 

[randyrippley]

2 mins 18, Bare Lane to Morecambe! Never has that with a Sprinter. Jointed track too.
Worth the ticket in many ways!

What ticket? There wouldn't have been time!

 

[Welly]

Very much doubt it, as I'm sure they would have been binned off a lot sooner if they ever had.

I think there was once an emergency Pacer subsitution for a failed London bound HST from Cardiff but it was terminated at Bristol?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I think there was once an emergency Pacer subsitution for a failed London bound HST from Cardiff but it was terminated at Bristol?

So it got as near as Bristol? A close shave for London!

 

[Howardh]

Still think with a bit of refurbishment including an accessible loo, many could have been kept on to serve short distance branch lines; thinking Oxenholme-Windermere, maybe Kirkham-Blackpool South round here as a shuttle service. Of course they were draughty, noisy, uncomfortable and so on (I always preferred the bus seats) but I'm sure they could have been used to increace the frequency on such lines?

 

[allaction]

They were adequate at best, but what I hated was what they symbolised in Wales for far too long - the fact that we were expected to put up with them because we didn’t deserve the more modern units seemingly being introduced non-stop throughout much of the rest of the UK - a by-product of the punitive standstill arrangement Arriva Trains Waleswere happy to adhere to for well over a decade.

Dark days.

 

[ChilternTurbo]

Being a Londoner growing up in the 80's, Pacers were quite alien to me. I did however get a provincial liveried Hornby Class 142 for a Christmas present one year. It was a nicely detailed model for the time but was noisy and not great going around curves on my layout...sound familiar?

I only ever rode on a Pacer a couple of times, once between Darlington and Middlesbrough and it the experience was not positive. Mostly down to the very cramped bus seats. More positive was a journey on a Northern Spirit 142 between Newcastle and Hexham. I seem to remember that had more comfortable seating. Overall they were ok as a means of transport for short journeys but seemed to get deployed on inappropriately long routes.

 

[Lemmy282]

Living in Sheffield we had these "nodding donkeys" for years, awful things. I used to travel to Barnsley and back on the five days a week, glad to see the back of them.

 

[bramling]

They were adequate at best, but what I hated was what they symbolised in Wales for far too long - the fact that we were expected to put up with them because we didn’t deserve the more modern units seemingly being introduced non-stop throughout much of the rest of the UK - a by-product of the punitive standstill arrangement Arriva Trains Waleswere happy to adhere to for well over a decade.

Dark days.

I do find this view rather pessimistic. For much of the first decade and a half of this century, the Wales franchise was 142/143/150/153/158/175. This cross-section of ages isn’t radically different to what one would find on something like Great Northern, where in fact the oldest stock (313s) would have dated back to the 1970s and thus coming up to a decade older. The previous significant fleet replacements were the slamdoor replacements, the oldest of which (CEPs and 205s) went back to the 1950s and we’re well over 40 years at final withdrawal. So I’m not sure Wales can complain too loudly about the fleet age.

There may well be a case to complain about relative quality, and certainly the fleet size should have been expanded under the ATW franchise, either with some new build or cascades units. The Pacer fleet in Wales was always quite small, and only really prevalent in the Cardiff area even if they did go further afield occasionally.

 

[507020]

I do find this view rather pessimistic. For much of the first decade and a half of this century, the Wales franchise was 142/143/150/153/158/175. This cross-section of ages isn’t radically different to what one would find on something like Great Northern, where in fact the oldest stock (313s) would have dated back to the 1970s and thus coming up to a decade older. The previous significant fleet replacements were the slamdoor replacements, the oldest of which (CEPs and 205s) went back to the 1950s and we’re well over 40 years at final withdrawal. So I’m not sure Wales can complain too loudly about the fleet age.

There may well be a case to complain about relative quality, and certainly the fleet size should have been expanded under the ATW franchise, either with some new build or cascades units. The Pacer fleet in Wales was always quite small, and only really prevalent in the Cardiff area even if they did go further afield occasionally.

The problem with Pacers wasn’t their age, it was their poor design compared to trains such as Sprinters, 175s, 313s, SR EMUs or Thumpers…

 

[LethalDrizzle]

I preferred them to the Sprinters. The Pacers were just a bit cheap and nasty; the Sprinters seemed to be deliberately designed to be unpleasant.

That's about where I sit on the subject, at least when it comes to 150s. Pacers may have been a dubious marriage between a freight wagon and the essence of a bus, but 150s always felt like a robust and efficient parcels unit that someone had reluctantly bodged a few holes in and passed off for passenger use.

 

[507020]

That's about where I sit on the subject, at least when it comes to 150s. Pacers may have been a dubious marriage between a freight wagon and the essence of a bus, but 150s always felt like a robust and efficient parcels unit that someone had reluctantly bodged a few holes in and passed off for passenger use.

But why would parcels units get proper bogies when the passenger Pacers didn’t?

 

[Pacerfan142]

I won't be voting as I never had the pleasure/pain of travelling in one. Did any actually venture into the London area?

you missed out on so much, pain and pleasure.

 

[bramling]

That's about where I sit on the subject, at least when it comes to 150s. Pacers may have been a dubious marriage between a freight wagon and the essence of a bus, but 150s always felt like a robust and efficient parcels unit that someone had reluctantly bodged a few holes in and passed off for passenger use.

The problem with the 150 is that, as well as having some of the negatives that came with the units based on the Mk3 shell (not least poor window alignment and big door pockets), it was also necessary to cram everything into a 2-car unit, which also soon found itself being deployed on some quite long-distance workings. All of the Sprinter types suffer from having had to squeeze a lot into a short train.

Some of the later 150 refurbs, for example GWR, have shown that the 150 can be made into a decent travelling environment, albeit achieving this (combined with adding an accessible toilet) has reduced seating capacity by some margin.

I’d certainly prefer a Pacer (even the bus seat ones, but excluding Merseytravel interior!) over the 150/2 2+3 airline layout.

 

[davart]

I thought they were quite light and airy generally although could be lively at speed.

I used to be able to tell where I was while attempting to sleep en-route to Uni. in Sheffield from Barnsley in the 90s just based on the noises they made going over the track.

Didn't like them in rush hour tho. They felt seriously overloaded then. The suspension felt like it was 'bottoming out'.

However, that said, they were well overdue for replacement.

 

[RPI]

Hated them, spent 11 years having my spine realigned by them on the Barny line when I transferred to Exeter!

Not to mention their pathetic capacity compared to a sprinter!

I think there was once an emergency Pacer subsitution for a failed London bound HST from Cardiff but it was terminated at Bristol?

On more than one occasion the 07:42 Paignton to Paddington was a pair of 142's, the furthest it ran was Swindon!

 

[Rob F]

Was the inner or outer axle powered on Pacers?

 

[Strathclyder]

I won't be voting as I never had the pleasure/pain of travelling in one.

I didn't vote for the exact same reason. Didn't travel on one and they rarely ventured north of the border in normal service either way.