Differences between a 158 and a 159?

[SouthEastBuses]

Does anyone happen to know the differences between a class 158 and a class 159? They all look exactly the same to me!

 

[skyhigh]

You might find this old thread interesting, it was pretty much just first class and retention tanks for the toilets I think. They were originally built as 158s.

Class 158 vs 159

sorry If this is a stupid question. But I always wondered what’s the difference between them other then operators... Is there a technical difference?

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There are a few, though they're fairly subtle as all 159s started out as 158s. The original 159/0s were modified before entering traffic, the 159/1s were modified after they finished with Trans-Pennine work.
159/0s have 400hp engines, 159/1s have 350hp. 158s have a mixture of two varieties of 350hp (Cummins or Perkins) with a few having the 400hp- these were originally allocated to the Manchester to Cardiff line.

 

[swt_passenger]

Does anyone happen to know the differences between a class 158 and a class 159? They all look exactly the same to me!

The original SWT/SWR 159s, there‘s 22 of them, were slightly different when delivered as already mentioned, but the 8 x 159/1s that came later are effectively just 3 car 158s. When SWT took them on they were renumbered solely for neatness - to make it easier to differentiate and allocate the units to services by length, ie all their 3 cars were 159s and all their 2 cars were 158s.

The features such as first class or toilet tanks made the 159s different when newly delivered but those features also apply to 158s as well now.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

The features such as first class or toilet tanks made the 159s different when newly delivered but those features also apply to 158s as well now.

Effectively none. Might as well just renumber to 159/9s then

 

[zwk500]

Effectively none. Might as well just renumber to 159/9s then

What would be the benefit of paying to do so? (It costs money to re-register vehicles).

 

[swt_passenger]

Effectively none. Might as well just renumber to 159/9s then

Do you not mean to write 158/9? There are some 158/9s as built but they are 2 cars.

However that designation is also normally used for 3 car units temporarily made up by reforming 3 x 2 cars into 2 x 3 cars, with a third ‘spare’ cab remaining in the middle. But they’re not permanent changes, as can be seen by GWR continually rearranging them - at which time they revert to their original numbers.

 

[W'looMan]

As well as all of the above differences, the 159s have an automatic fire extinguisher system, however on the 158s, the extinguishers have to be set off manually.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

What would be the benefit of paying to do so? (It costs money to re-register vehicles).

Do you not mean to write 158/9? There are some 158/9s as built but they are 2 cars.

However that designation is also normally used for 3 car units temporarily made up by reforming 3 x 2 cars into 2 x 3 cars, with a third ‘spare’ cab remaining in the middle. But they’re not permanent changes, as can be seen by GWR continually rearranging them - at which time they revert to their original numbers.

My bad, I meant 158/9 yes.

A benefit might be consistency, although I would argue that money could be better spent on more useful things

 

[sjoh]

Effectively none. Might as well just renumber to 159/9s then

My bad, I meant 158/9 yes.

A benefit might be consistency, although I would argue that money could be better spent on more useful things

So, might as well not, then....

 

[InkyScrolls]

As well as all of the above differences, the 159s have an automatic fire extinguisher system, however on the 158s, the extinguishers have to be set off manually.

Incorrect. On 158s the fire bottles are automatic as well (though they can be set off manually).

 

[XAM2175]

Effectively none. Might as well just renumber to 159/9s then

A benefit might be consistency, although I would argue that money could be better spent on more useful things

You could at least thank @zwk500 for leading you to this change of heart

 

[BurningFeetMan]

As well as all of the above differences, the 159s have an automatic fire extinguisher system, however on the 158s, the extinguishers have to be set off manually.

Incorrect. On 158s the fire bottles are automatic as well (though they can be set off manually).

Both 158 and 159 have a dual bottle fire extinguisher system, one automatic and one manual.

Some 158 have a slightly different system, but are effectively (for the purpose of this reply) the same.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The distinction makes sense at SWR, as their 2-cars are 158 and the 3-cars are 159.

But even some enthusiasts get confused by it all, see the number of model 3-car 158s on the auction site mislabelled as 159s, or model 144s labelled as 143s because some assume 143=2-car and 144=3-car. Possibly an age thing, because I get confused nowadays between 800/801/802 no matter how often I look it up!

 

[WillPS]

Another difference is that the 'front' vestibule can be locked out on 159s, although the former TPE 158s were also been similarly modified by SWT (and at least one of those is now in operation elsewhere).

 

[WarrenTManager]

There are a few, though they're fairly subtle as all 159s started out as 158s. The original 159/0s were modified before entering traffic, the 159/1s were modified after they finished with Trans-Pennine work.
159/0s have 400hp engines, 159/1s have 350hp. 158s have a mixture of two varieties of 350hp (Cummins or Perkins) with a few having the 400hp- these were originally allocated to the Manchester to Cardiff line.

Only four of the 110 cars are now with a 400hp R3 on SWR. Everything else is a R1 350hp. The four are past half life mileage so won’t last long.

 

[fgwrich]

Only four of the 110 cars are now with a 400hp R3 on SWR. Everything else is a R1 350hp. The four are past half life mileage so won’t last long.

I thought my return home on 159003 sounded a little different last week. The 350hp R1 engine is certainly a little quieter from an internal point of view.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Only four of the 110 cars are now with a 400hp R3 on SWR. Everything else is a R1 350hp. The four are past half life mileage so won’t last long.

Sorry, but what do you mean by "110 cars" and "R1/R3"? These aren't terms I've encountered before.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The distinction makes sense at SWR, as their 2-cars are 158 and the 3-cars are 159.

But even some enthusiasts get confused by it all, see the number of model 3-car 158s on the auction site mislabelled as 159s, or model 144s labelled as 143s because some assume 143=2-car and 144=3-car. Possibly an age thing, because I get confused nowadays between 800/801/802 no matter how often I look it up!

Likewise the old Triang dmus, advertised as 101s, but they are the original "red triangle" Metro Cammell units with 79xxx numbers (there are other differences - notably the fairings below the buffer beams)

800/801/802: I can't tell them apart visually unless I can see the number, and the subclasses are arranged very confusingly, but evens and mulitples of 5 are hybrid (800/802/805/810). Odds (other than 805 - which has 5 cars) are all electric (801, 803, 807)

 

[Domh245]

Sorry, but what do you mean by "110 cars" and "R1/R3"? These aren't terms I've encountered before.

There are(/were) 110 158/9 vehicles in SWRs fleet - 20x 158 & 90(/87 now) 159s

R1 & R3 are different variants of the Cummins NTA855 engine with either 350 or 400bhp respectively

 

[norbitonflyer]

Sorry, but what do you mean by "110 cars" and "R1/R3"? These aren't terms I've encountered before.

SWR have 30x3-car class 159s, and 10x2-car 158s, total 90+20=110 cars.

R1 and R3 are variants of the Cummins NTA-855 engine

 

[Big Jumby 74]

R1 & R3 are different variants of the Cummins NTA855 engine with either 350 or 400bhp respectively

Seem to recall that when the 350bhp 159/1's first arrived at Salisbury after their rebuild from 158's (at Rosyth?) there was concern in some quarters (internally) that they might struggle to keep time especially in the intensive service East of Woking Junction, but this proved groundless once they entered service. All other units were 400bhp at that time.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Thanks both. I assumed that 110 was some sort of technical designation. Am I right in thinking that the advantages of the extra 50 horses turned out to be fairly minimal? I vaguely remember hearing or reading that somewhere.

 

[hexagon789]

Thanks both. I assumed that 110 was some sort of technical designation. Am I right in thinking that the advantages of the extra 50 horses turned out to be fairly minimal? I vaguely remember hearing or reading that somewhere.

Poorer acceleration for one I understand.

 

[43096]

SWR have 30x3-car class 159s

Had not have technically. 159102 was written off after the Salisbury Tunnel accident.

 

[swt_passenger]

Seem to recall that when the 350bhp 159/1's first arrived at Salisbury after their rebuild from 158's (at Rosyth?) …

IIRC it was Doncaster did the 158 > 159/1 conversion work.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

IIRC it was Doncaster did the 158 > 159/1 conversion work.

You may well be correct. My (aged) memory is recalling events surrounding the original 159/0's when modified from 158. Apologies for any confusion !

 

[chuff chuff]

Did any 159 ever make it up to Edinburgh, I remember taking one up to the shed at haymarket god knows how many years ago got to be 25 plus.