Digital Fraud Team email.

[LolitaEx45]

I received an email recently from the digital Fraud team. Email below

... 'when approached by staff carrying out their revenue duties, you were asked to show your valid ticket you offered a ticket with a railcard attached and were unable to present your railcard, therefore you would not have been eligible for the discounted rate.
Further investigations into this matter have been carried out, including a review of the ticket records. It would appear, at this stage, that this may be a case of fraud. West Midlands Trains take travel fraud extremely seriously and is committed to prosecuting all cases of fare evasion to the full extent of the law. Travelling on the railway with the intent to avoid paying the full fare is an offence under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889. Such an offence carries a maximum fine of £1,000 and/or three months’ imprisonment and, in either case, a criminal record. It must also be considered whether this matter amounts to a much more serious offence under the Fraud Act 2006.
At this stage we would be grateful if you would provide any evidence to support the claim that none of the above legislation has been contravened to prevent further action being contemplated.'

A couple months back i had shown a single ticket bought using a Job Seekers Plus Railcard on the Trainline app. Whilst I am out of work at the moment, I don't own this Railcard and was clearly doing it to get a reduced fare. The train was packed, I panicked and instead of owning up, I said I'd forgotten my Railcard out of embarrassment with there being so many people around. There was no dressing down, the exchange was very amicable and swift. The inspector took the photo of my ticket, issued me a fine plus the fare that I later paid within the 21 day period.

I'm wondering what should be my response to this email be. Obviously I want to own up, take responsibility and sort this out outside of the courts but realise it's not that easy and what I've done is very serious. I'm extremely worried, I know when they ultimately dig deeper they will see this isn't the first time. By no means a great long list and we're talking extremely small fares, not that this means anything, I'm fully aware what I've been doing is still illegal, wrong and completely unacceptable. I've been very stupid. A criminal record would be the final nail in the coffin for me right now.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Titfield]

Good Morning.

Firstly do not panic or stress, issues such as this are often resolved without going to court with all that entails.

Please can you upload a copy of the letter you have received with all personal identifying details obscured.

Advice specific to your issue can then be given by forum members.

In the meantime please go through your online travel booking account(s) and construct a list of all the journeys you have taken where you have claimed a discount you were not entitled to. You will then need to calculate the full adult single fare for each journey. No railcard discounts or other discounted fares eg off peak single should be used. This will give you an indication of the amount of money the Train Operating Company will be seeking plus £100 - £200 administration fee. (It may be more than this if they have spent considerable time investigating your travelling history).

Most TOCs (Train Operating Companies) will offer an administrative settlement ( commonly known as an out of court settlement )(as it is in their interests to do so) rather than going to court providing that (1) you engage with the process (2) you are honest about the occasions you have not paid the correct fare (3) you show contrition (4) you demonstrate that you will not do this again (5) You have not done this before. There is no guarantee of this and they are their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court should they decide to do so.

Following the model advice that @Hadders provides:

Evading your fare is a serious matter and it's right that the train companies take a hard line against it. I suggest you send a short, concise reply to the letter mentioning the following points:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fares and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

You will need to admit to all the times you have not paid the correct fare and ask them to check that your records are correct as it is essential that no occasion slips through the net as that could undermine their willingness to offer a settlement. Having done this a number of times will make the TOC less inclined to offer a settlement but feedback from previous posters is that it can be achieved.

 

[nuneatontown]

I received an email recently from the digital Fraud team. Email below

... 'when approached by staff carrying out their revenue duties, you were asked to show your valid ticket you offered a ticket with a railcard attached and were unable to present your railcard, therefore you would not have been eligible for the discounted rate.
Further investigations into this matter have been carried out, including a review of the ticket records. It would appear, at this stage, that this may be a case of fraud. West Midlands Trains take travel fraud extremely seriously and is committed to prosecuting all cases of fare evasion to the full extent of the law. Travelling on the railway with the intent to avoid paying the full fare is an offence under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889. Such an offence carries a maximum fine of £1,000 and/or three months’ imprisonment and, in either case, a criminal record. It must also be considered whether this matter amounts to a much more serious offence under the Fraud Act 2006.
At this stage we would be grateful if you would provide any evidence to support the claim that none of the above legislation has been contravened to prevent further action being contemplated.'

A couple months back i had shown a single ticket bought using a Job Seekers Plus Railcard on the Trainline app. Whilst I am out of work at the moment, I don't own this Railcard and was clearly doing it to get a reduced fare. The train was packed, I panicked and instead of owning up, I said I'd forgotten my Railcard out of embarrassment with there being so many people around. There was no dressing down, the exchange was very amicable and swift. The inspector took the photo of my ticket, issued me a fine plus the fare that I later paid within the 21 day period.

I'm wondering what should be my response to this email be. Obviously I want to own up, take responsibility and sort this out outside of the courts but realise it's not that easy and what I've done is very serious. I'm extremely worried, I know when they ultimately dig deeper they will see this isn't the first time. By no means a great long list and we're talking extremely small fares, not that this means anything, I'm fully aware what I've been doing is still illegal, wrong and completely unacceptable. I've been very stupid. A criminal record would be the final nail in the coffin for me right now.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

By photo do you mean the inspector scanned the ticket, or did they actually get a camera to take a photo and record the details of it?

Also, did they ask you for your name and address?

 

[skyhigh]

By photo do you mean the inspector scanned the ticket, or did they actually get a camera to take a photo and record the details of it?

What relevance does this have? Either way they have recorded the ticket details.

 

[nuneatontown]

What relevance does this have? Either way they have recorded the ticket details.

Because normally correspondence is sent by post rather than by email

 

[LolitaEx45]

Hi, thank you for your response.

I haven't received a formal letter through the post, just an email, of which is in my original message excluding my name, date and the journey.
They took a photo of my ticket and I gave them my name and address. I vaguely remember them asking is this my first time forgetting my Railcard, in which I nodded along to get the whole thing over and done with as quickly as possible. I'm fairly certain she advised me to upload a photo of my Railcard as proof when I got home, as I said it was my first time. I'm not entirely certain on that, my memory is a little foggy.
So should I reply to this email following the advice from @Hadders that @Titfield has kindly passed on?

 

[JBuchananGB]

This is what is known as a "fishing expedition". They would like you to admit to them that you have committed some crimes. This is never a very good idea. I suggest you invite them to tell you more about what they think they know.

Dear sirs.
In response to your email, I can confirm that on [date] I was approached by a member of your staff and was unable to produce a Railcard to support my discounted ticket. The matter was dealt with there and then by means of a Penalty Fare which I paid within the required 21 days.
Other than this I am unaware of any claim that I have contravened any of the legislation mentioned in your message.
Indeed, in respect of the above mentioned incident, I did contravene the legislation.
If you have some evidence that I have contravened the legislation on other occasions, if you inform me about it I will give it due consideration.

 

[Trainbike46]

I would agree that you should be careful not to incriminate yourself, as @JBuchananGB advises - at the end of the day it is up to them to prove you commited an offence

This may be obvious, but ensure you don't commit any further offences. If you're elegible for a railcard, get it as soon as possible

 

[Brissle Girl]

Other than this I am unaware of any claim that I have contravened any of the legislation mentioned in your message.

Two points. The words “of any claim” appear superfluous and change the meaning of the sentence somewhat.

Secondly, if the OP knows they have done this before then it’s a lie, which will be very easily proved by the fact that the relevant railcard can’t be produced. We advise people to be completely honest whilst not incriminating themselves, often a fine balance.

 

[ikcdab]

I fully agree with @Brissle Girl. The OP says they have done it before and the railway company obviously know that. The only possible defence is to submit the Railcard, but as you don't have one, then it's best not to lie and to just say nothing. Therefore you should not include the second paragraph.
The final paragraph is the important one.

 

[Pushpit]

Indeed a fine balance between honesty and self incrimination. But here the OP has said that it's a small number of cases and a small amount of money. So if the TOC can prove one case - and they are proposing an out of court settlement - there's going to be (say) a £150 "admin" fee and the cost of the Anytime Singles. That's sunk money. If the other cases where the OP has defrauded the railway amounts to a low sum, it may be better just to list them up and get some credit for being open and transparent.

 

[skyhigh]

Because normally correspondence is sent by post rather than by email

I quoted the part of your post where you asked if a photo was taken, which as far as I can see is irrelevant.

 

[WesternLancer]

On the post vs e-mail matter I think we have seen West Mids Trains before dealing with these cases ('we suspect you of other sorts of evasion' type accusations) - by e-mail before, for what it's worth.

Obv any e-mail of this nature needs basic checks to ensure it's not some sort of scam, but similarly should not just be ignored.

 

[Titfield]

The comments about it being a "fine balance" do not really assist the OP in their predicament.

The OP has told us that they have claimed a railcard discount they were not entitled to in the past.

An assumption has to be made that the TOC digital fraud team have evidence of this or a very strong suspicion of it in their possession. This is based on the Digital Fraud Team sending the OP a letter which effectively states this. They do not know however if the OP did have a JC Railcard at the time of the other "offences" hence they are effectively asking the OP to produce it. If the OP could produce it then issue resolved, if the OP can not produce it then the issue remains live.

IMHO If the OP denies any form of wrong doing (without proof) or effectively says "whats your evidence" then I think the TOC would go straight to prosecution which on the basis of what the OP has said they would succeed in. Putting myself in the shoes of the Digital Fraud Team how would I react to someone who either does not respond fully or bats the question back? Me (and this is purely a personal opinion) would be thinking they have had their chance to resolve this the nice way, the hard way it is going to be.

If the OP fesses up then there is a high degree of probability that the TOC would offer an administrative settlement (out of court settlement) because the OP has been compliant, told the truth etc etc.

Given the OPs comment about a conviction being the final nail in the coffin the OP can not risk the matter escalating to court. On that basis they should make full disclosure and hope that by doing so the TOC is minded to an administrative settlement.

 

[glasgowniteowl]

There have been two similar threads on here today, I note one difference, this case had appears to have had a penalty fare, the other they went straight to prosecution, that could be a fatal flaw in this case, as the one instance where they most likely had enough proof to prosecute they have dealt with by penalty fare and thus the op cannot now be prosecuted for that one offence,

it is unlikely they would have enough proof of a previous offence to take the matter all the way to court, where as in the other case the threat of prosecution is still there and not supplying the requested information would likely result in prosecution there, however it would be a risk if the OP were to not resolve it without that the rail company may take it further, I note I have not seen any prosecution yet for solely historical evasion it is usually for the instance they were caught plus anything else

 

[Titfield]

I do not think the Penalty Fare issue is a fatal flaw. The matter which gave rise to the PF simply enabled the TOC to investigate further and in doing so found what they believe to be evidence of further times of travelling without a valid ticket. They have now investigated the OP's booking account and have asked for the OPs response so that the matter may either be resolved (by production of the valid railcard) or taken further.

I still think that in all likelihood they have enough evidence to proceed to court and secure a conviction. Given the OPs earlier statement it is in their best interests to respond in a way which will elicit an offer of an administrative settlement.

As with many of these cases, the wrong doing (based on what we can see) is highly likely to be able to be proven in court and therefore the OP is advised to try and elicit an offer of an administrative settlement.

Whilst a great many posts on here comment on what appears to be disproportionately high sanctions (relative to the fare avoided), the reality is that is what the TOCS are prepared to settle for and they would argue they can justify doing so. Certainly when comparing the sanction of a settlement to say either a court fine etc or the cost of employing a solicitor plus a settlement or court fine it is self evident which is the less costly option.

I do sympathise with many who have made an innocent mistake or caught up in what appears to be a form of entrapment at some stations but unfortunately until someone comes up with a better system of revenue protection (ie one that doesnt open the flood gates to wide spread abuse) those guilty of an innocent mistake and those guilty of knowing wrong doing will be treated as one and the same.

 

[Haywain]

They do not know however if the OP did have a JC Railcard at the time of the other "offences" hence they are effectively asking the OP to produce it.

What they do know, however, is that when issued a Penalty Fare for 'forgetting' the railcard the OP chose to pay the PF rather than produce the railcard. I would suggest that paying £50 plus the fare is fairly clear evidence that no railcard was held.

 

[Titfield]

What they do know, however, is that when issued a Penalty Fare for 'forgetting' the railcard the OP chose to pay the PF rather than produce the railcard. I would suggest that paying £50 plus the fare is fairly clear evidence that no railcard was held.

Thanks yes but I was covering the possibility that the OP had a railcard but which had expired by the time of the journey for which the PF was accepted because the OP knew it had expired but had continued to "claim" the discount.

 

[JBuchananGB]

The original incident has been dealt with by means of a penalty fare. No further action can be taken in respect of that matter. There could be a wealth of ticket purchasing history using an entire range of discounts, but unless the TOC has some evidence that the OP actually travelled on a train without a valid ticket other than at the time they were stopped by an inspector, there is no case to answer. The TOC are inviting the OP to incriminate themselves. It is not recommended in this forum that people should do that.

 

[Haywain]

The original incident has been dealt with by means of a penalty fare. No further action can be taken in respect of that matter.

That may be how it pans out but I believe the PF could be repaid and replaced with a prosecution, which wouldn't be barred because there was no appeal. However, if the OP wants peace of mind rather than worries about what may or may not happen then our advice should be based on that.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

This is a tricky one. You've paid a Penalty Fare in respect of the incident where you were caught so that is the end of things relating to that single incident. Although technically the Penalty Fare could be repaid to enable further action to take place in respect of that incident I really don't think that a realistic proposition.

There is evidence that you've purchased tickets with a railcard discount that you're not entitled to use. Purchasing tickets is not an offence, using the tickets is. You haven't been caught using the tickets and it would be up to the train conpany to prove that you did use them. They are unlikely to be able to do this, unless they were monitoring your movements. The letter from West Midlands Trains is trying to get you to incriminate yourself.

Essentially you have two choices:

1. Co-operate with them, admit that you purchased and travelled using railcard discounted tickets you weren't entitled to use. WMT will almost certainly offer you an out of court settlement which is likely to cost around £150 plus the fares avoided at Anytime rate. Once the settlement is paid the matter goes away.

2. Sit tight and say nothing. It's highly doubtful that WMT would be able to prosecute you given the evidence they have. You will get further letters from them. There is a possibility that have, or could obtain some evidence, that you used the tickets. If they do have, or obtain, this evidence then they will prosecute you in the Magistrates Court.

Before soeone else points it out, there's a possibility that WMT could still prosecute you if you choose to co-operate rather than offer you an out of court settlement. I believe this is highly unilkely - in my experience once someone co-operates they always offer a settlement.

In conclusion, it comes down to your appetite for risk and whether you want to make the matter go away.

 

[Haywain]

You haven't been caught using the tickets and it would be up to the train conpany to prove that you did use them. They are unlikely to be able to do this, unless they were monitoring your movements.

They do have evidence of one case of a ticket being used, which is the one that was subject to a Penalty Fare. Whilst prosecution for that case is unlikely, I cannot see why it could not be used as evidence in a prosecution for the use of other tickets.

 

[Krokodil]

They do have evidence of one case of a ticket being used, which is the one that was subject to a Penalty Fare. Whilst prosecution for that case is unlikely, I cannot see why it could not be used as evidence in a prosecution for the use of other tickets.

Let's face it, if the operator brought up in court "between x and y dates the defendant purchased z number of discounted tickets through their Trainline account" the OP isn't going to convince a court that not one of those tickets was used. Who would purchase a bunch of tickets (rather than the odd one here or there) and neither use or refund them? If the OP said that the purchases were for someone else then that person would have to give evidence under oath to say that they used them. If any of those tickets have a scan history (onboard or at gatelines) then "I bought them but didn't use them" would fall apart straightaway.

The OP needs to think about what incriminating evidence the TOC may have. If the incident that resulted in a Penalty Fare was not the only time that they bought a JCP-discounted ticket using the same account then the TOC will already know about it. If it genuinely was a one-off then this is just a fishing expedition.

 

[LolitaEx45]

Welcome to the forum!

This is a tricky one. You've paid a Penalty Fare in respect of the incident where you were caught so that is the end of things relating to that single incident. Although technically the Penalty Fare could be repaid to enable further action to take place in respect of that incident I really don't think that a realistic proposition.

There is evidence that you've purchased tickets with a railcard discount that you're not entitled to use. Purchasing tickets is not an offence, using the tickets is. You haven't been caught using the tickets and it would be up to the train company to prove that you did use them. They are unlikely to be able to do this, unless they were monitoring your movements. The letter from West Midlands Trains is trying to get you to incriminate yourself.

Essentially you have two choices:

1. Co-operate with them, admit that you purchased and travelled using railcard discounted tickets you weren't entitled to use. WMT will almost certainly offer you an out of court settlement which is likely to cost around £150 plus the fares avoided at Anytime rate. Once the settlement is paid the matter goes away.

2. Sit tight and say nothing. It's highly doubtful that WMT would be able to prosecute you given the evidence they have. You will get further letters from them. There is a possibility that have, or could obtain some evidence, that you used the tickets. If they do have, or obtain, this evidence then they will prosecute you in the Magistrates Court.

Before soeone else points it out, there's a possibility that WMT could still prosecute you if you choose to co-operate rather than offer you an out of court settlement. I believe this is highly unilkely - in my experience once someone co-operates they always offer a settlement.

In conclusion, it comes down to your appetite for risk and whether you want to make the matter go away.

Hi Hadders, thank you for responding. I'm confused, you say I haven't been caught using the ticket, but that's exactly what I have been caught doing. I was on the train, with a discounted ticket having applied a JSP Railcard I didn't have. Like @Haywain pointed out, choosing to pay the penalty fare instead of producing the Railcard is a fairly obvious indication I don't own one.

My dilemma is, I'm keen to start up communication with these lot but I'm not entirely sure how I do that without incriminating myself, seeing as you think this is the purpose of the email.
Ignoring the email and waiting for a letter might imply I'm playing cat and mouse and unwilling to co-operate.

 

[furlong]

They do have evidence of one case of a ticket being used, which is the one that was subject to a Penalty Fare. Whilst prosecution for that case is unlikely, I cannot see why it could not be used as evidence in a prosecution for the use of other tickets.

Exactly - it would be foolish to attempt to reopen the matter already resolved as the ensuing legal arguments as to why they can't do that would just be a big and pointless distraction and the resolution chosen has no bearing on the situation with the other tickets. They might say something along the lines of "We caught you doing this on one occasion and chose to impose a Penalty Fare as punishment. No railcard was ever produced, there was no appeal and the Penalty was paid. We have evidence of similar purchases pre-dating this. Those tickets were also scanned and so we allege that they were used in a similar way as part of a pattern of behaviour contrary to... A Penalty Fare is only available as a resolution for the one particular journey involved at the place and time it is issued. It cannot be imposed retrospectively, hence this case is necessary to deal with the other alleged journeys."

 

[Haywain]

A Penalty Fare is only available as a resolution for the one particular journey involved at the place and time it is issued. It cannot be imposed retrospectively, hence this case is necessary to deal with the other alleged journeys

They wouldn't need to say any of that.

 

[furlong]

They wouldn't need to say any of that.

(That's to overcome an anticipated incorrect objection for someone less familiar with Penalty Fares but more familiar with cautions, namely that they can't now prosecute for the earlier journeys because they already imposed a PF - the option of resolving everything with one or more PFs never existed unless they were caught on each and every journey, which they weren't, so there's no way to even begin to formulate that objection.)

 

[ikcdab]

Hi Hadders, thank you for responding. I'm confused, you say I haven't been caught using the ticket, but that's exactly what I have been caught doing. I was on the train, with a discounted ticket having applied a JSP Railcard I didn't have. Like @Haywain pointed out, choosing to pay the penalty fare instead of producing the Railcard is a fairly obvious indication I don't own one.

My dilemma is, I'm keen to start up communication with these lot but I'm not entirely sure how I do that without incriminating myself, seeing as you think this is the purpose of the email.
Ignoring the email and waiting for a letter might imply I'm playing cat and mouse and unwilling to co-operate.

@Hadders is referring to the other cases, not the one that has been dealt with. The railway company know you just purchased previous tickets, and he is saying that you have not been caught using those. Using them is the crime.
Only you know if you scanned any of those tickets that might suggest they were used.
You said in your opening post that you have been acting illegally. If it were me I would want to own up, pay up and put it behind me. But it's not me so it's up to you now whether you deal with them and sort it out of court or if you throw the ball back at them and risk a prosecution.
What is your preference?

 

[Hadders]

@Hadders is referring to the other cases, not the one that has been dealt with. The railway company know you just purchased previous tickets, and he is saying that you have not been caught using those. Using them is the crime.

Yes, this is what I was referring to in my earlier reply.

 

[LolitaEx45]

Although technically the Penalty Fare could be repaid to enable further action to take place in respect of that incident I really don't think that a realistic proposition.

Why would that not be a realistic proposition?

You haven't been caught using the tickets and it would be up to the train company to prove that you did use them. They are unlikely to be able to do this

How do train companies prove that you did use them? I would have thought that wouldn't be hugely difficult.