Dirtiest parts of the London rail network

[pjnathanail]

I need to take some pictures of dirty trains and stations, to illustrate the worst of what our rail network is like. By dirty I mean litter, overflowing bins, grime etc as opposed to graffiti or window etching type stuff. Obviously the state of trains and stations constantly changes, but are there any places/times across the London rail network where the conditions are likely to be really messy (eg just before cleaning is due to happen). I will be looking around generally but any specific pointers would be greatly appreciated.

 

[trentside]

Why London in particular? These sorts of issues can happen anywhere.

I was working a rural service last night, the unit on which had just come off a busy commuter working (nowhere near London), and it was filthy - I could do something about the cups and things on the table tops but the food on the floor and the can of Pringles someone had emptied under a table then stomped in to the carpet were beyond me. It was a lot worse than trains I've seen in London at most times of day - as I'd assume there are turnaround cleaners at the major terminus stations.

 

[ComUtoR]

stuff. Obviously the state of trains and stations constantly changes, but are there any places/times across the London rail network where the conditions are likely to be really messy (eg just before cleaning is due to happen). I will be looking around generally but any specific pointers would be greatly appreciated.

What are you hoping to highlight ?

Deliberately trying to find messy places "just before cleaning" smacks of misrepresentation.

 

[pjnathanail]

Why London in particular? These sorts of issues can happen anywhere.

I was working a rural service last night, the unit on which had just come off a busy commuter working (nowhere near London), and it was filthy - I could do something about the cups and things on the table tops but the food on the floor and the can of Pringles someone had emptied under a table then stomped in to the carpet were beyond me. It was a lot worse than trains I've seen in London at most times of day - as I'd assume there are turnaround cleaners at the major terminus stations.

I have chosen London because I am going to be there at the point at which I need to take the pictures. I am not analyzing the condition of trains in London specifically, it just makes sense for logistical reasons.

Given your location however, and that I am normally based in that area, I would be interested in knowing which route that was on and whether the conditions you encountered are a regular occurrence?

What are you hoping to highlight ?

Deliberately trying to find messy places "just before cleaning" smacks of misrepresentation.

The pictures are for a part of a larger project considering cleanliness standards across the public transport industry. I already have several case study examples of "best practice", and as above I am not analyzing specific locations. The pictures are intended to show the worst conditions that passengers could travel in and staff could work in; they will not be presented as the ordinary situation 24/7 and there will be other examples of better presented trains.

 

[ComUtoR]

I'm unconvinced. Cleanliness standards are very high and the cleaning staff are doing a superb job on a day to day basis.

It's the passengers that are ones that cause the mess. I do find there is a difference between certain services and FCC appear to be a lot cleaner than SE and Mainline is a lot cleaner than Metro. I suspect tht it is due to the attitude of the passenger rather than any form of best practice or cleaning staff.

 

[pjnathanail]

I'm unconvinced. Cleanliness standards are very high and the cleaning staff are doing a superb job on a day to day basis.

It's the passengers that are ones that cause the mess. I do find there is a difference between certain services and FCC appear to be a lot cleaner than SE and Mainline is a lot cleaner than Metro. I suspect tht it is due to the attitude of the passenger rather than any form of best practice or cleaning staff.

I don't dispute the excellent job cleaning staff are doing, but they cannot be everywhere all at once. If there are specific areas that are often dirty then increasing the frequency of cleaning could reduce the impact of litter.

 

[IanD]

Why don't you contact Bill Bryson? He also likes to make a fuss about the amount of rubbish dumped in cuttings and the general railway environs that Network Rail have to pick up the bill for clearing but can have very little control over the dumping in the first place.

 

[phil281]

The Victoria Line trains can be filthy especially going south in the evening, wet grimy copies of the metro and evening standard trodden into the floor, coffee cups on the seats etc

 

[Simon11]

I don't dispute the excellent job cleaning staff are doing, but they cannot be everywhere all at once. If there are specific areas that are often dirty then increasing the frequency of cleaning could reduce the impact of litter.

Rather than increasing frequency of cleaning, it should focus on teaching the public to take their litter home.

 

[Bertie the bus]

It's the passengers that are ones that cause the mess.

It’s always the passengers. Getting in the way, making trains late with their boarding and alighting and generally making the place look a mess. Public transport would be so much nicer without them. The fact some trains aren’t cleaned at any point after leaving the depot in the morning until they return in the evening is neither here nor there.

 

[ComUtoR]

It’s always the passengers. Getting in the way, making trains late with their boarding and alighting and generally making the place look a mess. Public transport would be so much nicer without them. The fact some trains aren’t cleaned at any point after leaving the depot in the morning until they return in the evening is neither here nor there.

The way in which trains are treated like a dustbin is down to the passenger. If a train isn't cleaned or cleared they yes, it is down to the TOC. But litter comes from somewhere.

Metro services on SE are an absolute ****hole I'm stunned the cleaning staff do such a great job in a very limited time.

 

[sarahj]

Had an 8 car 377 last week which was a mess of commuter stuff, eg Standards, coffee cups etc etc. Even a few left banana peels. Two cleaners in Ore sidings did a great job and when we came back into service was almost spotless. Then a couple of blokes got on a Bexhill and one then threw up all over the inside of a door, and it was not the watery kind. :-x Could not even get near to lock the door out of service so had to jump out and warn any passengers boarding.

TBH, the messiest ones are ones coming out from London about 17.00-19.00 when they get to their destination. Last friday night was good for paper, cups, bottles, wine bottles, disposable cups, crisps and snacks, many dropped and ground down, balloons, party hats, streamers orange peel and banana skins, burgers, chips, wasabi* noodles, kfc, etc etc . We were late getting into Southampton, so no cleaning, so had to take the whole mess back to Brighton, where young folks with their cartons of beer and wine then added to the mess. By the time we got to Brighton at 23.40 ish. YUK!!!!!!!


*, yes, i know I go on about Wasabi noodles, but folks never ever eat a whole tub and leave them on the train to stink the place out. At least with burger king, etc most folks eat them up, so while they wif while being eaten, they get eaten. Half eaten Wasabi cartons just stink the coach out all the way.

 

[trentside]

I have chosen London because I am going to be there at the point at which I need to take the pictures. I am not analyzing the condition of trains in London specifically, it just makes sense for logistical reasons.

Given your location however, and that I am normally based in that area, I would be interested in knowing which route that was on and whether the conditions you encountered are a regular occurrence?

I prefer not to specify such things I'm afraid.

It's not a regular occurrence, however, which is what surprised me about it.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

I always had this down as the part of London's rail network with the most rubbish -

http://westlondonwaste.gov.uk/about-us/where-your-waste-goes/victoria-road-waste-transfer-station/

 

[LLivery]

To be honest, I don't really think I've seen a station is London that dirty. I've been on all routes in London in the past 5ish years and honestly nothing is THAT bad. I travel on the Southern, Southeastern and South West Trains networks very often and rubbish etc isn't really anywhere at stations, its normally just left by commuters on trains but is normally mostly gone by 11am/8pm. There is general dirt, which is natural anywhere outside. My main problem with Southeastern and Greater Anglia is the condition of the stations themselves.

 

[nicobobinus]

Immediately post-peak on commuter trains, that's really about it AFAIK. Though I've often seen Friday metros and Standards on Sunday afternoon trains in Greater Anglia territory - presume that a few late paper readers were missed by the 'post peak' clean. Tends to only be the odd one, though.

 

[Busaholic]

Immediately post-peak on commuter trains, that's really about it AFAIK. Though I've often seen Friday metros and Standards on Sunday afternoon trains in Greater Anglia territory - presume that a few late paper readers were missed by the 'post peak' clean. Tends to only be the odd one, though.

When I lived at Hither Green, and waiting on the Sidcup side for a train, it was best not to look down the line towards Lee if you had a phobia about rats, which were certainly the largest I've ever seen up on the embankment BUT (a) it was a long time ago and (b) I never ever encountered one on the station itself.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

If you are seeking the ultimate "grunge" - then you are 30 ears too late. (as with New York City) - London is massievly cleaner now (despite another million or so people) - to satisfy your desires I suggest you look at "The Sweeney" on Youtube to see what London in decay was. (or photos on the net re London Underground in the days when black dust , peeling paint and fag ends were part of the ambience)

 

[colchesterken]

I was pleased to see a mob of cleaners visit my metorpolitan train at Baker st they cleared all the rubbish and old newspapers and even asked passengers if they had any rubbish to put in their black bags

I guess it was so the train was nice for all the Amersham people after it turned at Aldgate

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Of course - Daily Mail / Express readers plus the time rich army of non-users and ex-pats love this sort of dross.

 

[PermitToTravel]

*, yes, i know I go on about Wasabi noodles, but folks never ever eat a whole tub

Can't imagine why not, they're lovely!

 

[BestWestern]

The dirtiest trains in terms of litter and rubbish will be on a saturday night, after whichever station forms the 'hub' of everyone's night out or on the way home again afterwards. Far worse than commuters in my experience.

 

[kermit]

I remember Stratford in the late 70s being spectacularly bad.

Unrecognisable today!

 

[Clip]

Unless they have upped their game then try Sudbury & Harrow road.

 

[otomous]

One of the few downsides of working on the railway is the gradual destruction of my faith in human nature. When I have to change ends on some of those trains in the sidings I think transporting animals must be cleaner. I was brought up to take rubbish home or put it in a bin. When did it become acceptable to leave half filled cups or glasses to fall over and spill, tread food into the carpet, place chicken bones on the seats, and used tissues and plasters on tables? The cleaners descend as I bring the train in but sometimes the trains are only there for a few minutes in the peaks so they can't clear much. And remember, EVERY piece of litter has been deliberately left by someone. Whatever else TOCs do wrong, they don't employ people to scatter rubbish everywhere.

 

[theorangeone]

I would say post morning peak on Thameslink. The trains have presumably been running up and down all night and then have to run through the peak. It was certainly full of discarded papers, sticky floors and seats with dubious samples of matter on them.

This is of course when the seats didn't have passengers sitting on them, although I'm quite sure some passengers qualify as dubious samples of matter as well.

 

[alwaystouchout]

Living in East London on and off it's remarkable how well maintained most of the stations are, especially the tube.

The problem isn't the cleaners who work their hardest to keep trains presentable to the public whenever they can, it's lazy bum passengers who make the trains dirty too poorly educated not to instantly discard their litter wherever they please

 

[Abpj17]

I don't dispute the excellent job cleaning staff are doing, but they cannot be everywhere all at once. If there are specific areas that are often dirty then increasing the frequency of cleaning could reduce the impact of litter.

Not really. The stations are generally pretty good. Trains would only significantly improve if they were cleaned inside while the train was moving / passengers till making mess.

Cramped conditions/extensive standing is a much bigger problem.

 

[pjnathanail]

Thank you to everyone for their comments. I am in London now, and so far all services have been spotless. I did however find this gem at Regents Park. For those who can't see the picture, it's a large sign exhorting passengers to put rubbish in the bins and avoid causing delays. The sign is above a large sack holder ring, but unfortunately there is no sack present for collecting the waste. This was the case at all the bins on the platform.

 

[Carlisle]

I always had this down as the part of London's rail network with the most rubbish -

http://westlondonwaste.gov.uk/about-us/where-your-waste-goes/victoria-road-waste-transfer-station/

I'm surprised to see so much waste is still getting sent to landfill, I thought most areas were moving towards better alternatives these days