[DK] DSB will lease 56 IC wagons from DB for Copenhagen-Hamburg

[XAM2175]

It's being reported at both drehscheibe-online.de and jernbanen.dk (based on this paywalled article) that DSB will be leasing 56 IC wagons from DB for use on Copenhagen-Hamburg services due to delivery delays with the new Talgo fleet.

They're expected to enter service later this year, and will run in push-pull formations with DSB Vectron locomotives.

The change will release the current IC3 DMUs for domestic use, as they will be the only DSB diesel fleet to receive ETCS signalling equipment, and will as a result end the use of DMUs on a service that runs entirely under wires.

It's suggested that this will however mean the end of the direct Aarhus-Hamburg route, as after the ETCS upgrade IC3s cannot run into Germany and the wires have not yet reached Aarhus. Based on the number of wagons hired though it might well be the case that they're converted to extra Copenhagen-Hamburg runs

 

[dutchflyer]

Youre quick! I did not even see it. Makes likely for 7 sets of 8 cars (currently the 2 2-cardieselsets have just 4 cars, way too small for this service), making 1 spare and a turnaround time 11-12 hrs if done efficiently possible for a fixed 2-hr service.
I used the Aarhus service last autumn (to visit its new rebuilt letbane=tram), when there was still mandatory covid seat-reserv, and the nr of people going via Fredericia=change over point was really very small. Personally I do not like these DSB sets with their cramped only 2x2 seatbays with table in the middle

 

[XAM2175]

I used the Aarhus service last autumn (to visit its new rebuilt letbane=tram), when there was still mandatory covid seat-reserv, and the nr of people going via Fredericia=change over point was really very small. Personally I do not like these DSB sets with their cramped only 2x2 seatbays with table in the middle

I like the IC3 trains a lot because I think they're very comfortable, but yes they're far too small for that route. When I last used it, at the end of October last year, I took the Copenhagen-Aarhus ICL service to Fredericia and changed there alongside a lot of other people, so extra capacity on Copenhagen-Hamburg section will definitely be a good thing. They'll just need a way of serving the local stations between Fredericia and Padborg, because in the current timetable the Copenhagen-Hamburg trains don't stop there.

Makes likely for 7 sets of 8 cars (currently the 2 2-cardieselsets have just 4 cars, way too small for this service), making 1 spare and a turnaround time 11-12 hrs if done efficiently possible for a fixed 2-hr service.

One of the Drehscheibe contributors suggests that the formation will be Avmmz106 + Bvmsz186 or Bvmmsz187 + Bvmmz188 + 2x Bpmz294 or 295 + Bpmbz294 + Bpmmbdz284, which is 7 cars. It may or may not be true, but I like the idea of having compartment stock available in both classes, and the Bpmmbdz (assuming they get any) will provide space for bicycles.

 

[43096]

It's being reported at both drehscheibe-online.de and jernbanen.dk (based on this paywalled article) that DSB will be leasing 56 IC wagons from DB for use on Copenhagen-Hamburg services due to delivery delays with the new Talgo fleet.

They're expected to enter service later this year, and will run in push-pull formations with DSB Vectron locomotives.

They’re being run top’n’tail with a Vectron at each end, as the Talgo fleet will be when delivered.

 

[Gloster]

That is the first time that I have seen the IC3 described as cramped: I find them decidedly roomy. A quick look at the timetable suggests that a train from Fredericia runs down to at least Padborg just ahead of the through trains and serves all the stops. The stations between Kolding, always a useful interchange, and Padborg are served from Odense and eastwards by the trains to Sønderborg: stopping the Hamburg trains at them probably wouldn’t be worth it for the number of passengers gained.

 

[XAM2175]

They’re being run top’n’tail with a Vectron at each end, as the Talgo fleet will be when delivered.

Force of habit haha, push-pull is the Victorian description for top-and-tail.

That is the first time that I have seen the IC3 described as cramped: I find them decidedly roomy.

Yeah I agree, but it does have to be said that they don't take being full and standing very well.

A quick look at the timetable suggests that a train from Fredericia runs down to at least Padborg just ahead of the through trains and serves all the stops. The stations between Kolding, always a useful interchange, and Padborg are served from Odense and eastwards by the trains to Sønderborg: stopping the Hamburg trains at them probably wouldn’t be worth it for the number of passengers gained.

Oh that's fine then, as long as they're covered. I wouldn't stop the Hamburg trains for them if it could be avoided.

Actually, is it not also the case that the RE7 is eventually being extended north from Flensburg?

 

[Gloster]

Actually, is it not also the case that the RE7 is eventually being extended north from Flensburg?

No idea. I don’t go south of the border, down Schleswig way. Although there were mutterings in the past about extending to Padborg.

 

[XAM2175]

Although there were mutterings in the past about extending to Padborg.

Ah, maybe that's what I was thinking of. Doesn't really seem worth it for all the extra effort it would take.

 

[Gloster]

Ah, maybe that's what I was thinking of. Doesn't really seem worth it for all the extra effort it would take.

I think it was because there was a blanket ban on anything not fitted with Indusi running on DB tracks. Extending local services to Padborg would allow passengers to change to DSB services. The only DSB trains fitted with Indusi were a small number of IC3 and DSB was reluctant to tie them up on services only going to Flensburg. Long ago they used to send MZ-hauled coaches and MR/MRD DMUs to the ‘Danish’ end of Flensburg station (actually the south-Eastern one). The passengers then went through what I always thought was a very Germanic building: a spartan tiled corridor.

 

[XAM2175]

I think it was because there was a blanket ban on anything not fitted with Indusi running on DB tracks. Extending local services to Padborg would allow passengers to change to DSB services.

True, it's a bit inconvenient either way with the change in both voltage and protection systems.

Long ago they used to send MZ-hauled coaches and MR/MRD DMUs to the ‘Danish’ end of Flensburg station (actually the south-Eastern one).

Oh yes, I've seen one or two photographs of that. They caught my attention because they had the 'Fo' signal box in the background - very distinctive! And at the south-eastern end because of the loop

 

[jamesontheroad]

Personally I do not like these DSB sets with their cramped only 2x2 seatbays with table in the middle

That is the first time that I have seen the IC3 described as cramped: I find them decidedly roomy.

Yeah I agree, but it does have to be said that they don't take being full and standing very well.

The IC3 are indeed roomy … unless they’re travelling between Copenhagen and Hamburg!

Apart from Snälltåget’s night train (and soon SJ’s as well) this is the only intercity route for travellers between Norway, Sweden, eastern Denmark and Germany. So it’s inevitably been a pinch point for hundreds of thousands of passengers, especially in peak summer season. Additionally, they tend to travel with a lot more luggage than the domestic passengers the IC3 were designed for.

 

[andersj]

That is the first time that I have seen the IC3 described as cramped: I find them decidedly roomy. A quick look at the timetable suggests that a train from Fredericia runs down to at least Padborg just ahead of the through trains and serves all the stops. The stations between Kolding, always a useful interchange, and Padborg are served from Odense and eastwards by the trains to Sønderborg: stopping the Hamburg trains at them probably wouldn’t be worth it for the number of passengers gained.

It always feel cramped to travel solo in 2x2 seat bays. There are only two rows (8 seats) of airline style seating just before the 1. class on IC3. When they run on domestic services the compartment is a "Quiet zone" but on the international trains it's just regular 2. class seating.

Actually, is it not also the case that the RE7 is eventually being extended north from Flensburg?

Three solutions for the Flensburg-Padborg local services are currently being investigated.
1. Extension of RE7 (Hamburg-Flensburg) from Flensburg to Padborg, which can happen with no extra trains due to the long layover in Flensburg each hour. One platform in Padborg is for German voltage and one platform is for Danish voltage. (cheapest solution)
2. Extension of RE72 (Kiel-Flensburg) from Flensburg to Tinglev with additional Stadler Flirt Akku (they will then run on the battery on the danish section). (cheap solution, but would require two changes in Tinglev and Flensburg for passengers traveling from Denmark to Hamburg)
3. Extension of RE7 from Flensburg to Tinglev or Kolding or Fredericia from 2027 where new trains will be introduced. They need to decide if some of the new stock should be dual voltage or not. (expensive solution to buy dual voltage EMU's for the short section from Padborg to Tinglev)

The extension to Tinglev will allow DSB to service the Tinglev-Sønderborg branch each hour instead of every two hours as now. Otherwise DSB will continue to service Sønderborg and Padborg every two hours each, making an hourly service between Tinglev and Kolding.