Do any LNER services divert in to London St Pancras International via High Speed 1 (the bit before the HS1 tunnel starts)

[Hey 3]

I am asking if any services divert in to London St Pancras International High Level Main Line station via the Belle Isle Chord for route retention, or when London King's Cross is shut?

 

[JonathanH]

I am asking if any services divert in to London St Pancras International High Level Main Line station via the Belle Isle Chord for route retention, or when London King's Cross is shut?

No, that isn't how the track is laid out.

The only diversions into St Pancras in recent history have been Hull Trains who have diverted
* from Doncaster via the Erewash Valley, or
* with an awkward triple reversal at Alexandra Palace, Ferme Park and West Hampstead Thameslink.

No route retention is needed. It is done with route conductors from freight companies.

 

[Backroom_boy]

No, that isn't how the track is laid out.

The only diversions into St Pancras in recent history have been Hull Trains who have diverted
* from Doncaster via the Erewash Valley, or
* with an awkward triple reversal at Alexandra Palace, Ferme Park and West Hampstead Thameslink.

No route retention is needed. It is done with route conductors from freight companies.

Not the Belle Isle curve but the Silo Curve looks like it would link the ECML into St Pancras in the last S Baker rail atlas; no idea what reality is.

 

[JonathanH]

Obviously there is a direct connection into St Pancras International Low Level from Belle Isle from the ECML but LNER aren't going to take that route either.

The Copenhagen Curve isn't much use as even if reversal at Camden Road were possible it only goes into the International platforms and isn't set up for use.

 

[Bald Rick]

No, partly because the link between the ECML and St Pancras high level can only route into the International platforms, and partly because it has never been commissioned.

 

[Aictos]

No, that isn't how the track is laid out.

The only diversions into St Pancras in recent history have been Hull Trains who have diverted
* from Doncaster via the Erewash Valley, or
* with an awkward triple reversal at Alexandra Palace, Ferme Park and West Hampstead Thameslink.

No route retention is needed. It is done with route conductors from freight companies.

Are you sure about needing to reverse at Alexandra Palace? I only query it because a few years ago I boarded a First Hull Trains service from Doncaster to St Pancras and the train only reversed at Hornsey, Ferme Park and West Hampstead. The train never reversed at Alexandra Palace so maybe you're mistaken? You are correct though with regards to the route conductors.

As to the OP, usually if there are any engineering works affecting LNER they either divert via Cambridge to Kings Cross or terminate at Peterborough and restart from there.

 

[JonathanH]

Are you sure about needing to reverse at Alexandra Palace? I only query it because a few years ago I boarded a First Hull Trains service from Doncaster to St Pancras and the train only reversed at Hornsey, Ferme Park and West Hampstead. The train never reversed at Alexandra Palace so maybe you're mistaken?

Sorry, yes, Hornsey, not Alexandra Palace. I likewise took that trip - not much point reversing at Alexandra Palace to get over the Ferme Park flyover.

I think maybe it stopped at Alexandra Palace for the route conductor to board.

 

[Steve Harris]

No, partly because the link between the ECML and St Pancras high level can only route into the International platforms, and partly because it has never been commissioned.

So, are you saying the ECML connection (between York Way North Jn and Regents Canal Jn) has never been commissioned ?

 

[Bald Rick]

So, are you saying the ECML connection (between York Way North Jn and Regents Canal Jn) has never been commissioned ?

AIUI, it never has, nor have many of the other links between HS1 and the conventional Network in that area.

 

[ABB125]

AIUI, it never has, nor have many of the other links between HS1 and the conventional Network in that area.

Which begs the question, what was the point in building them? Had regional Eurostar been cancelled by the time St Pancras had been designed?

 

[Bald Rick]

Which begs the question, what was the point in building them? Had regional Eurostar been cancelled by the time St Pancras had been designed?

It was in the act, parts of it lobbied for by regional MPs (who needed to be persuaded to vote for the project).

But yes, the act was passed into statute a couple of years before the regional services were formally cancelled.

 

[ABB125]

It was in the act, parts of it lobbied for by regional MPs (who needed to be persuaded to vote for the project).

But yes, the act was passed into statute a couple of years before the regional services were formally cancelled.

THanks.
I suppose it's better to have the connections built "just in case" some new services need to use them (highly unlikely as that may be) than not at all.

 

[Bald Rick]

THanks.
I suppose it's better to have the connections built "just in case" some new services need to use them (highly unlikely as that may be) than not at all.

Well I can think of better uses for the tens (hundreds?) of millions of pounds they cost.

 

[ABB125]

Well I can think of better uses for the tens (hundreds?) of millions of pounds they cost.

Yes, I agree to an extent: if regional Eurostar had been cancelled prior to the final station design, then by all means remove them. But given that the designs existed and had funding in place*, they might as well have been built.

*Given that I was around 5 when St Pancras reopened, I have no idea whether this is true!

 

[Steve Harris]

AIUI, it never has, nor have many of the other links between HS1 and the conventional Network in that area.

That does surprise me a little bit. As I thought the ECML connection got used when the Eurostars got dragged to Kingsbury for scrapping... (some special dispensation I imagine ? As obviously there were non passenger services).

 

[Kite159]

That does surprise me a little bit. As I thought the ECML connection got used when the Eurostars got dragged to Kingsbury for scrapping... (some special dispensation I imagine ? As obviously there were non passenger services).

Didn't the scrap moves use the MML connection on the way towards Kingsbury?

 

[Steve Harris]

Didn't the scrap moves use the MML connection on the way towards Kingsbury?

Nope !

The moves where ECML, Melton Mowbray, Leicester, Coalville, Tamworth, Kingsbury.