Do off-peak restrictions never apply to connecting services?

[ianBR]

I've just bought a ticket tomorrow from LNER for Brighton to York.... 07:44 from Brighton connecting to 09:30 from KGX.

This is a super off-peak ticket.

Clearly off peak tickets are not normally valid on southern or thameslink trains before 09:30 from Brighton, but I'm assuming here LNER sets the rules based on its service being 09:30.

Is that the way it would always work when you have a connecting service - any restrictions only apply on the main leg? How do the ticket barriers at Brighton know - or is it just the fact the ticket is going further than London?

 

[JonathanH]

Is that the way it would always work when you have a connecting service - any restrictions only apply on the main leg?

No, it depends on the terms of the specific restriction for the specific ticket. For example, generalising a bit, any journey where CrossCountry is the main leg has a blanket 0930 restriction for off-peak tickets.

How do the ticket barriers at Brighton know - or is it just the fact the ticket is going further than London?

They don't know. As a generalisation, the rule only typically applies for journeys beyond the former NSE area going via London on the former Intercity operators.

For example, looking at the Brighton to York ticket you have, it has restriction code 9D. This states restrictions in terms of the journey from London, with any connection allowed from Brighton. It has the condition that 'Customers must not travel on CrossCountry services before 09:30', but that is largely irrelevant.

There are two off-peak returns from Brighton to Liverpool, one routed + Any Permitted, the other routed + Southern & WMR.

The first has restriction code 9I. Again this states restrictions in terms of the journey from London, but additionally says that 'For journeys to/via Birmingham on Cross Country see restriction code 2V'. 2V simply says 'Not valid for trains scheduled to depart after 04:29 and before 09:30' so anyone going via Guildford and Reading can't leave Brighton until 0930.

The second has restriction C0, which is the same as Brighton to London tickets and says 'Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 which arrive at London Terminals or Kensington Olympia before 09:45.

Not valid on trains timed to pass through London Bridge after 04:29 or before 09:45, regardless of where you join or leave the service.'

So in some cases it is necessary to check the restrictions.

 

[Haywain]

For example, generalising a bit, any journey where CrossCountry is the main leg has a blanket 0930 restriction for off-peak tickets.

There are also journeys where CrossCountry is involved and the 0930 restriction come into play for that leg only (ie: tickets with no other effective restriction).

 

[JonathanH]

There are also journeys where CrossCountry is involved and the 0930 restriction come into play for that leg only (ie: tickets with no other effective restriction).

Yes, got there with the edit just after you noted this.

If travelling from Aberdeen to Brighton effectively the only barred train is the 0820 CrossCountry departure from Aberdeen even though earlier trains are unrestricted, as the restriction is otherwise not arriving in London before 1117.

One notable other way of applying restrictions is how GWR do it where they give a time for each station from which a ticket isn't valid, effectively restricting people taking earlier connections, rather than just restricting the main leg.

As ever, all the nuances of how restrictions apply can't be captured in one rule about connections, even if there is an underlying rule from BR days.

 

[ianBR]

Interestingly ticket restriction 9D also says in the exceptions section it doesn't apply on Fridays from Kings Cross until further notice so actually there is actually no restriction on what time train I could take from Kings Cross!

No wonder things are as clear as mud to customers!

 

[Deerfold]

One notable other way of applying restrictions is how GWR do it where they give a time for each station from which a ticket isn't valid, effectively restricting people taking earlier connections, rather than just restricting the main leg.

And sometimes they list exceptions of trains which are valid which would not normally be or the other way round. Although they're not always very good at keeping the list of trains up to date when they change by a few minutes.

 

[Sleepy]

Interestingly ticket restriction 9D also says in the exceptions section it doesn't apply on Fridays from Kings Cross until further notice so actually there is actually no restriction on what time train I could take from Kings Cross!

No wonder things are as clear as mud to customers!

LNER changed the Friday restriction on Off Peak tickets several years ago as business travel was much lower.

 

[miklcct]

LNER changed the Friday restriction on Off Peak tickets several years ago as business travel was much lower.

It's a good news for leisure travellers for weekend trips.