Donald Trump and rail

[43096]

Outside of HSR does Trump's return flag any danger to the Hudson Gateway program or is that money safe (a la Jim Bowen) ?

Some of the associated works are already well under way: four tracking from Newark in has started, including the new bridge over the Hackensack River.

 

[nlogax]

Some of the associated works are already well under way: four tracking from Newark in has started, including the new bridge over the Hackensack River.

Indeed, last time I was on the line out of Penn into Newark about a year ago I noted the progress then, so looking forward to seeing it early next year when I'm back in the area. I'm just hopeful that Trump can't claw back any remaining committed federal funds.

 

[Shrop]

Indeed, last time I was on the line out of Penn into Newark about a year ago I noted the progress then, so looking forward to seeing it early next year when I'm back in the area. I'm just hopeful that Trump can't claw back any remaining committed federal funds.

You might hope that Trump can't claw things back, but he now has more or less carte blanche to do as he wants. He has no Senate opposition (unlike the Democrats for the last 4 years), and he's already openly expressed a wish to have fascist tendencies. So it's therefore possible that he will only not claw it back if it suits him not to, the rules that have applied until now may well not apply after January 20th.

 

[TravellingPhil]

What were his election pledges on infrastructure outside of 'Project 2025'? Trying to find out for myself, but I'm struggling.

 

[nlogax]

Some conjecture courtesy of Holland & Knight.

https://www.hklaw.com/en/insights/p...oming-trump-administrations-policy-priorities

Rail. President-Elect Trump will likely reverse a number of the Biden Administration's railway policies. He is expected to reduce funding for high-speed rail projects and roll back safety regulations, including on hazardous gas transit, crew member requirements and fatigue risk.

 

[jon0844]

Some conjecture courtesy of Holland & Knight.

https://www.hklaw.com/en/insights/p...oming-trump-administrations-policy-priorities

Elon will also do everything to reduce funding for all public transit to protect his own interests.

He'll come up with more dumb ideas like tunnels that move a few people in a car rather than a subway train, and buses that take about 20 people, or taxis designed for couples with no disabilities (or friends or kids) to further divert funds away from buses and trains.

And he may also want to force more freight back onto roads using his electric trucks.

 

[cle]

What were his election pledges on infrastructure outside of 'Project 2025'? Trying to find out for myself, but I'm struggling.

New Infrastructure Week lolz incoming.

I can't imagine he'll have Elaine back on transportation... who knows there.

But NE-based Republicans do value Amtrak, the NEC, the commuter railroads etc so will help balance things, somewhat. Christie being a big exception, and they are not friends

As do users of the Keystone and Empire corridors, both having strong wfh/relo growth.

 

[Halish Railway]

I think America can count themselves lucky that a substantial amount of rail investment was secured under Biden, e.g. new Siemens Airo sets for the Northeast/Empire Corridor and state-supported routes, as well as additional services such as the Chicago to Minneapolis 'Borealis' and the forthcoming New Orleans to Mobile 'Madis Gras' service, additional Pennsylvanian services and the new Richmond to Raleigh route.

Fortunately it does seem like there can be a cross-party appetite for rail investment, with Senators and Governors of all colours showing support for additional long distance services. It was called the '2021 bipartisan infrastructure bill' for a reason.

 

[Krokodil]

I think America can count themselves lucky that a substantial amount of rail investment was secured under Biden, e.g. new Siemens Airo sets

Even having stock being built is no guarantee of interference. Look at what Scott Walker did, the Talgo sets built for the Hiawatha ended up in Nigeria.

 

[Shrop]

Some conjecture courtesy of Holland & Knight.

https://www.hklaw.com/en/insights/p...oming-trump-administrations-policy-priorities

We probably have to accept that just when passenger rail travel in the US might have been taking a step forward, Trump is likely to stop these advances. Passenger rail travel is just so unimportant to most people of the USA, all they want is to consume the world's fossil fuels for their own convenience. Look out for Musk too, it will be a competition to see whether petrol or electric cars can be the most prolific consumers of energy, but rail travel will be pushed back once again, sadly.

 

[jon0844]

I don't think Elon has any real care about the environment and would happily build gas powered Tesla's if Trump told him to.

Tesla took lots of subsidies and made a lot of money (and remember Elon didn't create Tesla) but now the cars are ageing and sales are plummeting. And generally speaking, MAGA fans don't want electric cars. Many of them are probably not big on solar either, or home batteries... basically everything Tesla is good at. What Tesla isn't good at is FSD, robotaxis and vans made to look like low-capacity buses, but which Elon will want to secure as much funding for as possible.

It's going to be an interesting four years, but given many Republicans who voted against the infrastructure bill were very happy to take credit for it when positive things happened in their states, I wonder how many Republicans will be begging Trump not to go too crazy.

 

[edwin_m]

We probably have to accept that just when passenger rail travel in the US might have been taking a step forward, Trump is likely to stop these advances. Passenger rail travel is just so unimportant to most people of the USA, all they want is to consume the world's fossil fuels for their own convenience. Look out for Musk too, it will be a competition to see whether petrol or electric cars can be the most prolific consumers of energy, but rail travel will be pushed back once again, sadly.

Passenger rail isn't the right answer for a lot of the US. The cities big enough to generate enough demand for a frequent train service are mostly so far apart that flying wins hands down on journey time. High speed rail would help in a few cases, but obviously needs that much more demand to justify the cost, so only worthwhile if it connects really big cities that are even less likely to be close enough. Quite a few cities have light rail within their urban limits. There may also be commuter rail going a bit further out but often only operating a few peak-time journeys so a supplement rather than a replacement to driving. What much of small-town America needs is a decent interurban bus service.

 

[Route115?]

Don't underestimate the importance of pork barrelled politics (or earmarks as I am told they should strictly be called). Local politicians in Congress quite like funding local projects. Also the (not very accurately titled) Inflation Reduction Act has already been passed and will continue unless repealed (which is unlikely). That said I doubt that many new projects will be in the pipeline unless they are privately funded (which several are such as Brightline & Brightline West).

What maywell be be concerning is the lack of Federal funding for local projects - and remember that whilst the U.S. is very decentralised around half of all public spending comes out of Federal funds.

 

[Shrop]

Passenger rail isn't the right answer for a lot of the US. The cities big enough to generate enough demand for a frequent train service are mostly so far apart that flying wins hands down on journey time. High speed rail would help in a few cases, but obviously needs that much more demand to justify the cost, so only worthwhile if it connects really big cities that are even less likely to be close enough. Quite a few cities have light rail within their urban limits. There may also be commuter rail going a bit further out but often only operating a few peak-time journeys so a supplement rather than a replacement to driving. What much of small-town America needs is a decent interurban bus service.

Yes, a lot of central USA doesn’t need a passenger railway, but there’s quite a bit along the New York to Miami corridor that would justify a decent fast passenger rail service, as would San Francisco to LA.

But the USA doesn’t just need to think about HSR, there are many, many cities where vast multi-laned urban roads are gridlocked but where public transport simply isn’t available, so some local rail provisions could be pretty useful, if only the USA culture wasn’t so car-blinkered. It isn’t just for their own sakes either, anyone who hasn’t been to some of the US cities might be dismayed at the unbelievable numbers of cars belching fumes into the atmosphere. They generally aren’t small engined fuel-efficient cars like we have in the UK either, many are 3 or 4 litres plus, which US people have just because they can, and because fuel is cheap. Irrespective of how much they contribute to climate change, and generally without any care whatsoever about doing so.

 

[Krokodil]

They generally aren’t small engined fuel-efficient cars like we have in the UK either, many are 3 or 4 litres plus, which US people have just because they can, and because fuel is cheap.

The state of Virginia actually charges a fee to the owners of small, efficient (if you can call 25mpg "efficient") cars in order to make up what they lose in fuel taxes.

 

[Shrop]

The state of Virginia actually charges a fee to the owners of small, efficient (if you can call 25mpg "efficient") cars in order to make up what they lose in fuel taxes.

Crumbs I didn't realise their environmental unfriendliness was quite so extreme . So what that translates to is a positive encouragement to pump as much pollution into the atmosphere as possible whilst driving, and something which will be further encouraged by the incoming Trump regime. It's no wonder that so many people in the UK and other countries hold the view that there really isn't much point in doing their own bit to reduce pollution

 

[bavvo]

Considering the utter geopolitical disaster Trump is proving to be, worse even than the pessimists thought, this almost seems trivial. But, does anyone think that US domestic rail will survive his presidency? Given Musk's personal hatred of public transport and his reckless hands on the levers of power I wouldn't be surprised if they use the chaos to eliminate Amtrak, and do what they can to kill off any high speed rail projects that aren't totally under state control. No doubt to be replaced with a fleet of government funded Tesla robotaxis.

 

[jon0844]

Considering the utter geopolitical disaster Trump is proving to be, worse even than the pessimists thought, this almost seems trivial. But, does anyone think that US domestic rail will survive his presidency? Given Musk's personal hatred of public transport and his reckless hands on the levers of power I wouldn't be surprised if they use the chaos to eliminate Amtrak, and do what they can to kill off any high speed rail projects that aren't totally under state control. No doubt to be replaced with a fleet of government funded Tesla robotaxis.

Elon will probably announce all rail freight is to be carried on a Tesla semi - having awarded himself the contract and with Trump signing it off because he didn't understand or care what he was signing (or whether he had the legal power to do so in the first place).

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

IIRC Republican politicians from rural states tend to support Amtrak services that serve their constiuents. Some even want to expand the network.

South Dakota resolution calls for support for Amtrak service - Trains

PIERRE, S.D. — A resolution in the South Dakota House is calling for support of the state’s congressional delegation and the Trump Administration for Amtrak service in the state. House Resolution 6008 is sponsored by Rep. Tim Goodwin, a Republican who represents the 30th District, in the state’s...

www.trains.com

PIERRE, S.D. — A resolution in the South Dakota House is calling for support of the state’s congressional delegation and the Trump Administration for Amtrak service in the state.

House Resolution 6008 is sponsored by Rep. Tim Goodwin, a Republican who represents the 30th District, in the state’s southwestern corner. It was introduced on Feb. 5 and is slated for a hearing on Tuesday, Feb. 18. It requests “full support of the South Dakota congressional delegation, in cooperation with the Trump administration, to work for an Amtrak route between Denver and Minneapolis-St. Paul by way of Rapid City, Pierre, and Sioux Falls.”

The bill does not address funding for the service.

The Denver-Twin Cities route was one of 15 included in the Federal Railroad Administration’s final Long Distance Study report, released in January [see “Houston-New York service gets highest ranking …,” Trains News Wire, Jan. 21, 2025]. It was one of five routes tied for seventh in the report’s preliminary ranking. It would require the greatest expense in terms of infrastructure work necessary to launch the service — up to $5.83 billion, more than the next two most expensive routes combined — because of the lack of Class 4 track needed for passenger operation. Overall, the FRA estimated the service would cost $44.39 billion to $59.03 billion to launch.

The resolution points out South Dakota is the only state in the contiguous 48 that has never had Amtrak service.

 

[nwales58]

When the USA is considering a 45% military budget reduction by the end of 5 years, transport federal spending is likely to be zero.

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/19/politics/hegseth-military-major-budget-cuts/index.html

Defense secretary orders military to prepare for major budget cuts​

The memo, dated Tuesday, calls for military leaders to provide a proposal for eight percent in budget cuts each year for the next five years.

(what that would mean for the rest of the democratic world is not for this topic)

 

[nwales58]

Amtrak will be privatised according to:

Loading…

edition.cnn.com

Elon Musk says that he believes the US Postal Service and Amtrak need to be privatized and that “we should privatize anything that can reasonably be privatized.”

“Amtrak is a sad situation. It’s like, if you’re coming from another country, please don’t use our national rail. It can leave you with a very bad impression of America,” Musk said.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Amtrak will be privatised according to the grand speech the other day.

Which pretty much means the end of it. They might survive as a luxury operation on certain routes, and the Acela should survive, but I can't imagine those very long distance services lasting long under a privatised operation. The only seriously long distance ones I can see surviving are those operating on the East Coast down to Florida, as there's a lot of demand throughout the year.

Having said that, how many people in the House have districts where the Amtrak stop is the only thing that connects their district to a major city? People in New York or Seattle won't miss Amtrak, but those living in the 4th Congressional District in Kansas which has a direct train to Chicago and Los Angeles might not be happy about losing it.

 

[jon0844]

Elon has wanted to kill rail for years, even pretending Hyperloop would replace it to take valuable money away from rail to fund research into one of the most pathetic scams of all time.

He'll be all over this, and I guess his suggestion about the post office will be so he can claim he'll build self driving post vans with robots to deliver the mail. All ready to go by next year, or the year at the latest....

 

[cle]

Which pretty much means the end of it. They might survive as a luxury operation on certain routes, and the Acela should survive, but I can't imagine those very long distance services lasting long under a privatised operation. The only seriously long distance ones I can see surviving are those operating on the East Coast down to Florida, as there's a lot of demand throughout the year.

Having said that, how many people in the House have districts where the Amtrak stop is the only thing that connects their district to a major city? People in New York or Seattle won't miss Amtrak, but those living in the 4th Congressional District in Kansas which has a direct train to Chicago and Los Angeles might not be happy about losing it.

I think people in New York and Seattle would absolutely miss Amtrak. NYC as example, the airports could not handle the additional passengers to Boston and DC alone. Add Philly, Albany... complete **** show. Horrible for the environment too, not that they care.

He's after NY and NJ also, so this would be a real miss.

And critically, many states (and red ones) are very supportive of Amtrak. Virginia famously, but also now North Carolina. Louisiana. Wisconsin. Michigan. Florida even.

 

[railfan99]

Which pretty much means the end of it. They might survive as a luxury operation on certain routes, and the Acela should survive, but I can't imagine those very long distance services lasting long under a privatised operation.

You're too pessimistic.

Private operator(s) can still receive government subsidies.

Let's wait and see how the politics plays out before rushing to judgement.

 

[philg999]

You're too pessimistic.

Private operator(s) can still receive government subsidies.

Let's wait and see how the politics plays out before rushing to judgement.

You can guarantee there won’t be any federal government subsidies for rail if Amtrak is privatised. And it will not be practical for individual states to subsidise long distance services.

 

[jon0844]

I can just imagine how a lack of regulation is going to lead to even more incidents than the railway there already suffers today.

Mind you, why shouldn't rail get hit as hard as the airline industry and then roads once Elon can push fully unsupervised self driving without fear of legal action when it inevitably causes loads of accidents and fatalities?

 

[edwin_m]

Head of Amtrak resigns, apparently pushed by Musk for opposing privatisation: https://www.railwaygazette.com/poli...ainst-musks-privatisation-drive/68509.article

USA: Amtrak CEO Stephen Gardner announced on March 19 that he was stepping down from the national passenger operator with immediate effect.

 

[sprunt]

You can guarantee there won’t be any federal government subsidies for rail if Amtrak is privatised.

Depends who it's sold to. Trump Rail could get generous subsidies for providing a vital service.

 

[zwk500]

Depends who it's sold to. Trump Rail could get generous subsidies for providing a vital service.

Only for the next 4 years...