Doncaster Sheffield Airport to reopen?

[pug1]

TUI seemed to operate successfully from Doncaster so I wonder why others failed.

TUI are an interesting point. Thomsonfly as was in 2004/5 (when it was announced they’d be the launch carrier) had dipped their toes into the low-cost seat only market. They offered a number of city destinations at launch from DSA including Dublin, Amsterdam, Prague and ISTR Paris. Pretty solid decision by Peel, an established operator with a wide scope of holidays and business friendly city destinations, with the added bonus that it would mean Humberside offering would be significantly reduced, weakening its position. They also closed their base at Leeds which meant that if you were in Yorkshire/Lincolnshire and you wanted a TUI holiday you’d be going from Doncaster. Worked for them, but holiday flights and daily high frequency city pair schedules are much harder to maintain as they require a pretty substantial catchment area to sustain them.

EasyJet ran a season of daily flights to Geneva in the first winter of Doncaster operations. That never returned owing to lacklustre support. When they closed their East Midlands base, it made perfect sense to have an operation at Doncaster, as there was then no easyJet flights from any airport on the M1 corridor between Luton and Newcastle! This time they tested the market by out-stationing one aircraft at Doncaster and flew to destinations such as Prague, Amsterdam, Barcelona, Palma and Faro. Sadly 5 months into the operation easyJet announced they’d be pulling out, a study of the passenger statistics highlighted that their best month at Doncaster saw and average load factor of just below 70%, Faro and Palma thought to do reasonably well but the others struggled to fill half an aircraft on average. Similar occurred with FlyBe, poorly supported but they were subsidised by Peel. Ryanair never really made a serious attempt at Doncaster because of their bases at East Midlands and Leeds (which opened after Doncaster opened!). Jet2 and KLM couldn’t be tempted.

So I know a long answer, but in conclusion for Doncaster to work, the airlines would need to pull out of Leeds Bradford or East Midlands (or both). But they have much bigger core markets than Doncaster so m, with the exception of TUI, the airlines didn’t do this.

I hope this helps answering your question.

 

[Killingworth]

TUI are an interesting point. Thomsonfly as was in 2004/5 (when it was announced they’d be the launch carrier) had dipped their toes into the low-cost seat only market. They offered a number of city destinations at launch from DSA including Dublin, Amsterdam, Prague and ISTR Paris. Pretty solid decision by Peel, an established operator with a wide scope of holidays and business friendly city destinations, with the added bonus that it would mean Humberside offering would be significantly reduced, weakening its position. They also closed their base at Leeds which meant that if you were in Yorkshire/Lincolnshire and you wanted a TUI holiday you’d be going from Doncaster. Worked for them, but holiday flights and daily high frequency city pair schedules are much harder to maintain as they require a pretty substantial catchment area to sustain them.

EasyJet ran a season of daily flights to Geneva in the first winter of Doncaster operations. That never returned owing to lacklustre support. When they closed their East Midlands base, it made perfect sense to have an operation at Doncaster, as there was then no easyJet flights from any airport on the M1 corridor between Luton and Newcastle! This time they tested the market by out-stationing one aircraft at Doncaster and flew to destinations such as Prague, Amsterdam, Barcelona, Palma and Faro. Sadly 5 months into the operation easyJet announced they’d be pulling out, a study of the passenger statistics highlighted that their best month at Doncaster saw and average load factor of just below 70%, Faro and Palma thought to do reasonably well but the others struggled to fill half an aircraft on average. Similar occurred with FlyBe, poorly supported but they were subsidised by Peel. Ryanair never really made a serious attempt at Doncaster because of their bases at East Midlands and Leeds (which opened after Doncaster opened!). Jet2 and KLM couldn’t be tempted.

So I know a long answer, but in conclusion for Doncaster to work, the airlines would need to pull out of Leeds Bradford or East Midlands (or both). But they have much bigger core markets than Doncaster so m, with the exception of TUI, the airlines didn’t do this.

I hope this helps answering your question.

One day when out walking near DSA we were impressed to see the number of apparent arrivals and departures. As we got nearer we realised they were almost all TUI aircraft. The same aircraft was going round and round, up, circle round, and down. Circuits and bumps I think they used to be called! Probably very cheap to get landing slots on a long runway at more or less any time it suited. Steady income for DSA with few extra costs to provide that access.

On another day, probably 6 or 7 years ago, I attended a very slick all afternoon presentation extolling all the benefits of the airport. It was attended by great and good elected officers from South Yorkshire, the national and local press, transport enthusiasts generally and those likely to be supportive. I saw a very modern terminal building with unmanned check in desks, closed shops, an all but empty car park - and not a scrap of litter. We overlooked a deserted runway and the apron in front of the terminal. All very impressive and it looked great. Did I see any flights? One small aircraft in mid-afternoon but little sign of more than a handful of passengers. I took away the usual handful of brightly printed brochures all written in the most positive language - and with deep feelings of doubt apparently not entirely shared by most of the other attendees. I wondered what they'd seen that I'd missed. The airport carried on.

Over the years I've checked to see if we might take a flight, but there's never been one going anywhere we wanted to go at a time we wanted to travel. It seems we haven't been alone in that view. Airlines want passengers. DSA hasn't proved it has enough all year round to be viable. In hardening economic times should we be shovelling more public subsidies into this airport? Throwing more good money after bad?

 

[Robertj21a]

KLM currently offer one or 2 flights every day to Amsterdam which is a short hop and a good global hub. They say they may increase to 3 flights a day 7 days a week if demand is there.

I live at the South-west end of Sheffield and by road Humberside is as quick to reach as Manchester.

It can't be too far for you to get to East Midlands ?

 

[daodao]

It can't be too far for you to get to East Midlands?

KLM do not fly to East Midlands. The phoenix airline FlyMayBe advertises a limited service from East Midlands to Amsterdam.

 

[Killingworth]

It can't be too far for you to get to East Midlands ?

True, our second choice and nearer than Manchester which usually has the edge on range of destinations and time of flights.

 

[Iskra]

As a result of the Doncaster closure, the National Police Air Service fixed-wing aircraft that were based there, have relocated to Leeds-Bradford Airport as their temporary new base.

 

[8A Rail]

Does it really need an extension? 2250m should be enough for most missions from a regional airport, and Liverpool is only slightly longer at 2285m. Both airports can handle fully loaded 737/A320s going to tourist islands (Madeira/Cyprus), so what more do they realistically need? With the LBA-Funchal flights, they also have to have enough fuel to divert to the Canary Islands if needs be and yet the runway is still adequate.

Generally speaking, most class of commercial aircraft can land and take off at airports with similar length runways as it all depends on landing and especially take off weights. I know B747, B767, B787, A330, and A340 have used LJL airport but it does hinge on their take off weights. So for example a fully loaded B747 would not be able to take off but by reducing the take off weight it is possible.

(I do realise there are various 'sub' classes of aircraft which could lead to one sub class is allowed to use a certain length runway but another is not but I am just making a 'general' comment above)

 

[blackfive460]

I seem to recall that the Coast Guard had two fixed wing aircraft operated by 2Excel at Doncaster; a Beech King Air and a Piper PA31. I wonder if they've gone to Humberside to join the Sikorski S92 helicopter based there or gone elsewhere?

 

[Chester1]

Generally speaking, most class of commercial aircraft can land and take off at airports with similar length runways as it all depends on landing and especially take off weights. I know B747, B767, B787, A330, and A340 have used LJL airport but it does hinge on their take off weights. So for example a fully loaded B747 would not be able to take off but by reducing the take off weight it is possible.

(I do realise there are various 'sub' classes of aircraft which could lead to one sub class is allowed to use a certain length runway but another is not but I am just making a 'general' comment above)

The Airbus A321 XLR probably reduces the demand for wide body aircraft at Leeds to close to zero. If there is demand long haul services at Leeds in future then it would be a much safer bet.

 

[Cloud Strife]

The Airbus A321 XLR probably reduces the demand for wide body aircraft at Leeds to close to zero. If there is demand long haul services at Leeds in future then it would be a much safer bet.

It's honestly hard to see what would be needed at Leeds anyway. Realistically, the A321XLR offers a range of around 4000nm, which means that Dubai/Abu Dhabi is within range for Wizz Air's plans to turn the Middle East into an ULCC hub.

The future is aircraft like the A321XLR which are small enough to be flexibly deployed, which is why we'll probably see them doing transatlantic flights in summer and then sunshine flights in winter.

 

[Chester1]

It's honestly hard to see what would be needed at Leeds anyway. Realistically, the A321XLR offers a range of around 4000nm, which means that Dubai/Abu Dhabi is within range for Wizz Air's plans to turn the Middle East into an ULCC hub.

The future is aircraft like the A321XLR which are small enough to be flexibly deployed, which is why we'll probably see them doing transatlantic flights in summer and then sunshine flights in winter.

Its easy to see why that would be appealing for airlines that do both types of journey. The budget airlines can already do UK to Egypt, Israel and Jordan using A320s and 737s. Ryanair wouldn't be interested in Airbus planes and I doubt Easyjet would want bigger aircraft when A320s can do the job and are their main plane. The middle eastern flights already push the boundaries of their business model with flight times of up to 6 hours.

Leeds being able to take a A321 XLR for transatlantic services really demonstrates that Doncaster-Sheffield had no reliable niche in the market. Its long runway sounds like an advantage but doesn't really matter.

 

[Iskra]

I must say that I’m quite enjoying the quieter airspace over North Sheffield since the demise of Doncaster. Aircraft landing at Doncaster used to do a large turn over Rotherham, throwing noise pollution over Sheffield and that is obviously no longer an issue. We still get much higher aircraft heading towards Manchester plus international flights transiting UK airspace at high altitude, but they are much quieter due to being further away from the ground.

 

[Pit_buzzer]

I must say that I’m quite enjoying the quieter airspace over North Sheffield since the demise of Doncaster. Aircraft landing at Doncaster used to do a large turn over Rotherham, throwing noise pollution over Sheffield and that is obviously no longer an issue. We still get much higher aircraft heading towards Manchester plus international flights transiting UK airspace at high altitude, but they are much quieter due to being further away from the ground.

The airfield finally closed at 18.00 last night (30th November) with the removal of Air Traffic Control and fire cover.
The remaining aircraft will have to be removed by road, these being what had been to 2015 the last airworthy Vulcan, a preserved Canberra and a small private jet abandoned for many years after its landing gear collapsed.
There is also a helicopter in one of the hangers which may be able to fly out by special arrangement

 

[westv]

Apparently the council has started the process of compulsory purchase and negotiations between Peel Group and a consortium are "ongoing".

 

[Bantamzen]

Apparently the council has started the process of compulsory purchase and negotiations between Peel Group and a consortium are "ongoing".

The words horse, bolted & gate spring to mind. There is no way in a million that a small council like Doncaster could afford to run a successful, profit making airport. And there will be few companies out there willing to chuck hundreds of millions at an airfield that has shown that both passengers and airlines want to use.

 

[8A Rail]

May be the council wish to purchase the airport to build houses and industrial estates on it! That seems to be most local council mantra's these days, looking how to get more council tax in!!

 

[thenorthern]

Earlier today I was talking to someone about Doncaster Sheffield Airport. It seems that Sheffield is the achilles heel of aviation as there has been both Sheffield City Airport and Doncaster Sheffield Airport that have opened and since closed.

Both of which were not suited to the South Yorkshire market though and in hindsight it's obvious why.

 

[DanNCL]

The airfield finally closed at 18.00 last night (30th November) with the removal of Air Traffic Control and fire cover.
The remaining aircraft will have to be removed by road, these being what had been to 2015 the last airworthy Vulcan, a preserved Canberra and a small private jet abandoned for many years after its landing gear collapsed.
There is also a helicopter in one of the hangers which may be able to fly out by special arrangement

Helicopters can fly without Air Traffic Control under certain circumstances without special arrangements. The three aircraft left on site don't have airworthiness certificates so would have had to leave by road regardless of the airfield being open or closed. Permission was saught to fly the Vulcan out, as it could have been made airworthy with relatively little work, but was refused by the CAA.

 

[william.martin]

Helicopters can fly without Air Traffic Control under certain circumstances without special arrangements. The three aircraft left on site don't have airworthiness certificates so would have had to leave by road regardless of the airfield being open or closed. Permission was saught to fly the Vulcan out, as it could have been made airworthy with relatively little work, but was refused by the CAA.

Is the Vulcan mentioned XH558?

 

[DanNCL]

Is the Vulcan mentioned XH558?

Yes

 

[william.martin]

Yes

Thanks!

 

[PsychoMouse]

I'm not surprised an airworthiness certificate was not granted for the Vulcan, probably don't want the pilots doing what they did on it's fairwell flight

 

[william.martin]

I'm not surprised an airworthiness certificate was not granted for the Vulcan, probably don't want the pilots doing what they did on it's fairwell flight

Yeah, such a shame they can't run though

 

[PsychoMouse]

Yeah, such a shame they can't run though

It's a shame it'll never fly again but I don't think the people behind it helped the cause with all of the allegations which were flying around about the whole situation.

 

[Lost property]

I'm not surprised an airworthiness certificate was not granted for the Vulcan, probably don't want the pilots doing what they did on it's fairwell flight

You might want to add a couple of useful design authorities to that....

 

[westv]

The latest I have read is that Peel Group have offered Doncaster Council a lease for the site.

 

[Bantamzen]

The latest I have read is that Peel Group have offered Doncaster Council a lease for the site.

Its generally believed they did that in response to a potential Compulsory Purchase Order. I don't think too many people think the Doncaster Council has either the finances or knowhow to be able to restart operations there on their own. And with every day that passes, the cost of re-opening spirals upwards as key infrastructure is dismantled there. For example the approach lights are being removed, as apparently is any associated cabling as the land they were one was under a lease which is due to expire. I really can't see at the stage how anyone could even begin to construct a business case to reopen unless they have very deep pockets. Its over for DSA apart from some ailing political aspirations within South Yorkshire councils.

 

[westv]

To update this story

Hunt begins for company to reopen, operate and develop Doncaster Sheffield Airport | New Civil Engineer

DSA was closed in November 2022 after its owner Peel Group said it was no longer commercially viable. Doncaster Council rejected this idea and has been

www.newcivilengineer.com

City of Doncaster Council is surging ahead with its plan to reopen Doncaster Sheffield Airport (DSA) by launching procurement for a company to bring it back into operation.
DSA was closed in November 2022 after its owner Peel Group said it was no longer commercially viable. Doncaster Council rejected this idea and has been working on a programme called South Yorkshire Airport City (SYAC) that will bring it back to life alongside employment, retail and leisure opportunities with transport links that would bring inward investment to Doncaster and South Yorkshire.

 

[Bantamzen]

To update this story

Hunt begins for company to reopen, operate and develop Doncaster Sheffield Airport | New Civil Engineer

DSA was closed in November 2022 after its owner Peel Group said it was no longer commercially viable. Doncaster Council rejected this idea and has been

www.newcivilengineer.com

Doncaster Council should stop kidding themselves, and more importantly their residents that this is anything but pie in the sky. From what I recall quite a lot of key infrastructure has been removed such as some approach lights (with the ground they occupied returned to the landlord), the airspace being sought for alternative use (mainly for approach to LBA), and most importantly of all the one main operator that was left at the end firmly settled elsewhere (LBA).

DSA showed that there was not a big enough market to successfully run commercial operations from there. Doncaster Council are simply throwing good money after bad.

 

[Cloud Strife]

From what I recall quite a lot of key infrastructure has been removed such as some approach lights

They've been placed into storage, so it's not a huge deal. There are costs with reinstalling the lights and ILS equipment, but it's minor in the grand scheme of things.

But I would argue that DSA is viable. Peel have long had their own agenda when it comes to land and airports, and DSA is perfectly capable of attracting 2m passengers a year. Some of the TUI flights were very busy despite high prices, and the airport should manage to attract charter flights too, as well as at least one LCC. It needs a proper public transport connection however, and this might be the dealbreaker.